New 120 ap item?

potatoandcup·Feb 9, 2015·3 votes·1,985 views

So with deathfire grasps removal we're kind of in the dark about the new 120 item as I Haven't seen anything regarding that. It's definitely needed. I mean look at the AD counter part. Essence reaver, bloodthirster, Infinity edge, mercurial scimitar. they have 4 BF sword items and we're down to two Needlessly large rod items. I'm ok with there being 3 NLR items as I think a 4th would up the ap scalings a ridiculous amount but here a couple thoughts as to why 4 wouldn't be too bad if we can mitigate the impact.

first off is the mana vs no mana champions would have to decide on these items. secondly, it would be an all in or out deal with ap champions deciding on just a zhonyas or getting that banshees/guardian angel. I'm not very good at this but here are some Ideas for a 3rd 120 ap item and maybe a 4th if you consider mana.

Item idea one shurellias fury 120 ap passive: 15% cdr (we also really miss that cdr from DFG) unique passive - frenzy: kills and assists grant bonus movement speed that decays over two seconds. (this would push assassins a little back up from the removal of DGF without increasing their burst) note that this could also be changed to just kills to up the risk for assassins and the cdr can remain at 10 though personally I think this item should be a staple with another cdr item even though it might be tricky to balance.

components : Needlessly large rod (1600) , fiendish codex (820) combine cost (850). total cost (3270)

item Idea two timeless guardian 120 ap 200 hp passive: 25% base mana regen passive: 50% base health regen unique passive - life shackle: killing monsters or minions restore 10 hp and mana over 6 seconds (effect cannot stack more than twice) unique passive - protector or runeterra: kills and assists grant a 30 (+15 per level) shield that decays over the next 6 seconds (effect cannot stack more than twice)

components: faerie charm x 2 (180 each), NLR (1600), Rejuv bead (180), ruby charm (400). combine cost (850). total cost (3390) note: the reason I don't want to give this item forbidden idol is because the 10% cdr would be busted with all the perks already on this item. This item is more for mana consuming casters for extended teamfights, like athenes but with more defensive stats rather than just mana back and it's less impactful and will only become increasingly impactful the longer the fight drags out. this item also helps the game in a progressive style as the components are a lot but they wont be super impactful and are relatively cheap until you finish it.

this may seem slightly over the top to some people but consider the pseudo defensive items on BF's side. magic resist and a cleanse, mana regen and life steal, lifesteal and a shield thats pretty big. 3 items that provide some kind of defensive capability or sustain and it's still top on the damage side of items. I'm not trying to make the items balance each other out by being similar because then casters, assassins and mana consuming ability power mages would lose their identity with attack damage assassins and marksmen. instead, with a speed boost and cdr and some nice sustain in lane without added burst damage or a significant game changer like a 2 second invulnerability, we don't get anything crazy impactful but we get great sustained teamfighting items that will really have a nice visual effect as well making you feel like the purchase was worth it.

I was thinking that shurellias fury could be combined with morellonomicon while timeless guardian would suit athenes better, or even morello as well for those only wanting one damage item.

lastly, for those thinking this mana regen would be too much, tear of the goddess and catalysts are often used together for ultra sustain and a really late game composition. this way you hit your sustain mid game without it being overpowered but you don't get that late game scaling like tear does. it also doesn't contain a sapphire crystal to avoid stacking that much ap with a mana scaling item.

I suck at names and I obviously don't know much about balance but these are some Ideas to fill the void left by DFG. I'm almost forced into 3 defensive items or double morellos which i'm sure riot never intended on having. I hope someone reads this and feedback is greatly appreciated. CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM please

3 Comments

Syn ZykanFeb 9, 20151 votes

Get both on Katarina...Oh I just killed you? Now I get resets AND a shield AND higher movement speed to catch the guy that is trying to run away...GG

EvilDavid0826Feb 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Syn Zykan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrhyExuc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-09T10:24:22.701+0000)

Get both on Katarina...Oh I just killed you? Now I get resets AND a shield AND higher movement speed to catch the guy that is trying to run away...GG

It says that it could not stack. Read more carefully plz

potatoandcupFeb 11, 20151 votes

the shields couldn't stack more than twice but both items together can stack. Katarina resets are a unique way of abusing the passives but what item doesn't have a champion with a unique abuse? lissandra can zhonyas twice. fizz and vlad can troll zhonyas. ahri used to get 40% damage increase with her charm and DFG. if you start accounting one champion abusing their strengths to one item you get a need to balance the item or the champion. since you've only mentioned a one case scenario, if that does get abused, katarina would be nerfed. Ryze was nerfed because he's a unique champion who could abuse tear and many mana items to buff up his damage.

there's always an unhealthy way to use an item. then there's the fact that you have to bank on katarina getting resets in the first place. a good katarina will look for a good entrance but a good team or decent players will try to avoid that or shut her down. each game brings different experiences. The idea of the movement speed was for assassins. the shields were for a more defensive mage. if you want to be offensive with it thats fine, it's a work in progress. it will probably go unheard anyways but it's a good idea to think about. DFG was a tide turner and it should be replaced with another albeit healthier tide turner as well. I think movement speed and a small shield isn't too crazy but it's also significant enough to merit the gold.

another reason that you wont want to get both. there's still zhonyas and rabadons. if you buy all 4 items thats 13k on just 4 items. not to mention you probably buy boots second so that's 1100. then your 6th item might be a void staff which you'll have to get earlier when they start stacking MR so you're now 2500 behind I believe? so you might get both these items and even rush them but you're missing out on rabadons 35% ap buff early on and thats only about 400 ap 8k gold later. on a good game thats what, 25-30 minutes in? you can expect your opponents to have some of that gold in their pockets too and be ready to put up a fight. all 4 items and you're looking at a 40-45 minute game at least and at that point they have MR and your enemy tanks are almost done with their builds assuming they didn't get stomped. most games don't last that long and you're not gonna be a 15-0-10 katarina 100% of your games.

I'm also heavily requesting CDR because not only have we lost DFG's cdr we've also lost the 10% we used to get from our elixir in season 4. Mages and assassins have lost 20% CDR this season and it's hurt a lot of champions. I'll repeat it again, I don't think stacking Morellonomicons were riots plan.