Boards›Gameplay

Tristana Rising in Popularity Again...

Yordle Xayah··75 votes·4,728 views

And I'm terrified... not so much for the (maybe) upcoming wave of hate posts that may flood The Boards soon (yet again) but more for the potential nerfs that may be heading her way. Believe me, I can see a bunch of arguments as to why she would deserve a nerf, and I myself can think of a few, but I'm just scared that The Balance Team just destroys her game play identity from their lack of understanding of the champion. I wouldn't be so weary if it wasn't for Rioters in the past commenting that they don't really know what to do with her, making me feel they may not understand who Trist is and why people like to pick her, so as a 1.3M Trist aficionada, I'm just gonna drop a couple thoughts right now that may (or may not) be of use in the future. I've made a couple posts about these in the past, but since I'm making somewhat of a compilation, I'm just gonna drop it all here.

Tristana's Identity

The Best Self Peeling Late Game Hyper Carry -- This to me has always been the most important aspect about the character and why I picked her in the past. She's the most fun when you're jumping in a team fight, getting resets and using your jump correctly to position and attack. Poor use of Buster Shot or Rocket Jump result in a very easy to kill character, that isn't good in the late game from true damage (Vayne), particularly good against Tanks (Kog) or AoE ranged crits (Twitch) but from her ability to peel for herself while using the range her passive provides mostly for single-target damage.

The Bandle Gunner... not "Demolitionist" -- This has always been my main point of critique about Tristana's Kit, and it's her ability to demolish towers with the use of her Explosive Charge on them. From a thematic stand point, the skill doesn't fit the character. Her lore and characters have always been built around this daring upbeat yordle who jumps into battle with her trusty cannon Boomer by her side. Where does "Oh and she demolishes stuff with bombs" fit in? When they introduced Ziggs' ability to take down low HP towers, it made sense. It fits with his theme and gave his E a new power that fits with the rest of his kit and theme, but on Tristana? From a design stand point, the skill also makes no sense with the rest of her kit, which (as I mentioned above) is built around that Late Game Team Fight Self-Peel fantasy. She has a passive (Draw a Bead) that increases the range of all of her abilities the longer the game goes. Rapid Fire is made to provide her with a window of power to use during those fights. Rocket Jump also serves that purpose, and Buster Shot is at is best when used as a self peel tool, rather than a finisher move like Graves' Ultimate. Where does "Oh and she demolishes stuff with bombs" fit in? To me, this ability to take towers has been nothing more than a gimmick, which gives Trist a strange power tool that makes her feel way too oppressive, specially in a world where Towers are made of paper.

What to NOT Change About Tristana's Kit

Rocket Jump -- I know this is a pretty big one, as some people feel the skill gives her way too much peel, but as I stated above, that's what her fantasy is supposed to be. Poor use of the skill and she ends up with a 14 Second Cool Down at Max Rank, which is a lot of time for how short fights are right now. If this skill was to be nerfed, it would have to be just via cool down. Range and reset stats need to remain, or we may end up with a similar situation to what happened with Kassadin a couple years ago, where they destroyed the range on his Ultimate, essentially killing his fantasy entirely. Do I believe the cool down should be higher? No. I think 14 seconds is a fairly long cool down, and a bad jump can lead straight to death or the need to burn a Summoner Spell. Let's now also discuss her ability to buffer this skill, as many find this to be frustrating to deal with. Before I go any further, I would like to re-direct you to a post by RiotJinxylord about why her buffering needs to be the way it is. You can find that post here. Now, other than the fact that Riot sees no value in making Rocket Jump particularly bad compared to all other dashes that can be buffered in the game, the proper use of this buffer is in fact an expression of skill and mastery of the champion. Learning to use this properly is one of the most fun things about Tristana, and if not done properly (as with the use of the skill itself) will lead to very awkward moments where the player is stopped mid air and and ends up looking like a fool with no cool downs and a gray screen. Rocket Jump is, in my eyes for sure, the wrong place to nerf the champion, as is probably the most essential part of her fantasy.

Resets and Self Peel -- I've already discussed this above, but I just want to stress it out: This is what makes Tristana, Tristana. In a similar fashion to Jinx, people pick her because what she can do in team fights, cleaning up, using her kit to position properly and attack the nearest target (Jinx is a bit better for AoE purposes and a bit of control of the fight with her Chompers). If you touch any portion of Trist kit that works towards this identity, that's the only thing that will suffer. She won't reward proper use of her peeling tools anymore. She won't really fulfill the fantasy that most of her kit is designed to do. Do not touch her Resets and Self Peel.

What I think are Tristana's biggest problems right now

The 20 min Paradox and Crit Items -- When I picked her up back in 2014, the way I understood Trist was that if you allowed her to reach late game, then you were in trouble. The problem right now though, is that we're talking about a champion designed to reach this huge power spike around 30 - 35 minutes but instead, she's reaching it around 20 - 25 minutes and that's what is just wrong in my eyes. I remember about a year ago, needing to farm and play safe while I would build towards 3 items and then I would be ready to fight 5v5 and do what Trist does best. However, nowadays I find myself being able to do as much with only two items and this is the main problem I currently see with not only Trist, but with other Late Game Hyper Carries. I won't open the can of worms that is Twitch here, but for Tristana, I know that I'm reaching my power spike way earlier than what I should, and this is just plain and simple: Not Fair. Critical Strike items right now are way too cheap and way too efficient. The window a team has to abuse Tristana's weak early game is way too short. Once she has two items, it's really easy for her to control most fights, unless there's like a super fed tank on the opposite side but I don't wanna go into Tanks here. Point in case: Trist should be reaching her power spike around 30 - 35 minutes, and not 20.

Paper Thin Towers Gimmick -- As I've stated before, Towers being so utterly useless at this time is making Trist's demolishing prows do way more than what they should... if such thing needs to exist at all, and the fact of the matter is that as long as Towers don't get a true buff, Trist being able to kill a full HP tower with just two minions waves because you recalled a bit out of time just feels cheap. You can't have a Late Game Hyper Carry also be an Early Game Demolition Monster. One of the two things needs to be compromised, and I don't think I must go into too much detail by this point as to which thing I would bring down hard on her kit.

Burstana?? -- This goes hand in hand with how Crit Items work right now, but I'll be brief: Trist needs to be a DPS character, not a ranged assassin. She has Rapid Fire, which combined with the need to build Explosive Charge just points out to a character designed to deal steady damage, rather than a huge burst all at once. If you build Rageblade Trist, that actually feels a bit more as to how I feel Trist should be. Steady DPS, and NOT Burst Damage.

How Would I Nerf Tristana

These Crit Items... -- This is the big one for me. If Crit Strike items were simply pricier, it would take longer for her to reach that power spike as it should be and not so early in the game. If Crit Items just have to be this powerful, they need to be more expensive.

Burster Shot -- Tone down most of the damage on her ultimate. There's no need for Buster Shot to deal so much damage but just point and click. In my opinion, no point and click should ever deal Burst Damage, but in this particular case, the skill is better used to peel for yourself during fights, so there's no need for it to be used as an execution move. Tone it down.

Demolish Explosive Charge -- Believe me, I wouldn't have a single issue if her ability to put a charge onto a tower was removed entirely, as I've explained how out of place it is with her character and design, but if it just HAS to be there and if Towers aren't getting buffed, then damage to structures needs to be seriously cut down. Maybe it can still hurt the tower if it's put on a character and the character is around the Tower. Maybe you can still put it into tower and deal AoE but just cut down on the damage to the structure. A character designed to have a Late Game fantasy has no business demolishing towers at 10 minutes. Wanna get REALLY funny for a moment? I've been able to get a tower as early 3:49... I'm NOT kidding, here's the Match History. And this is just wrong in so many levels. This ability needs to be toned down.

Things I don't Understand

Explosive Charge on Structures -- Yeah, you know how I feel about this.

AP Ratios -- Tristana, for some reason, still has AP ratios in her kit. These ratios aren't good enough to build her entirely AP (unless it's ARAM or Ascension) nor to build her as a hybrid in a competitive setting, so what's the point? To me, I've always believed it should be one of two things: Either make those ratios viable for Full AP/Hybrid builds, or just get rid of them so her damage can be streamlined. I personally would like them to be better, as Rageblade Trist is one of the most fun ways I find to play Trist, but it's just bad compared to Crit Trist.

tl:dr

  • Don't hurt Tristana's Fantasy: The Best Late Game Self Peeling Hypercarry
  • Crit Strike Items are making her spike at 20 mins instead of 30 - 35 as a Late Game Champion is intended
  • Rocket Jump isn't the place to nerf her. Some insight by RiotJinxylord here.
  • Explosive Charge on structures has no place on Tristana's Kit.
  • A Late Game Hyper Carry has NO BUSINESS taking towers at 10 mins.
  • Her Burst Damage is too high, tone down Buster Shot's damage, as the skill is better used to peel for yourself.

Thank you for reading my post on my favorite champion. It's really hard for me to put my finger on what exactly needs to be done with the character, but all I can do is offer my thoughts on her.

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/lolesports_gamepedia_en/0/06/TristanaSquare.png

88 Comments

Crystalysk32 votes

Just nerf crit and her popularity will drop, she is only played when crit build is best build. Her W is annoying but lets not forget about her Q, people never talk about it but its numbers are way too high in my opinion. It is 110% free attack speed for 7 seconds. Like seriously. I would understand those numbers if she wasn't so safe to play. Literally low risk high reward.

Hayaishi10 votes

{quoted}

Just nerf crit and her popularity will drop, she is only played when crit build is best build. Her W is annoying but lets not forget about her Q, people never talk about it but its numbers are too high in my opinion. It is 110% free attack speed for 7 seconds. Like seriously. I would understand those numbers if she wasn't so safe to play. Literally low risk high reward.

Crit has been the best build for a long while now. I think Riot doesn't want to change that. Trist needs a weakness. she's low risk high reward and that isn't right.

Crystalysk9 votes

If they want to keep crit as the best build then they need to lower her numbers, otherwise she is going to be meta forever. Her early game is way too strong because her E does so much damage and is really easy to proc with max stacks since she has good mobility with W and way too much attack speed with Q. Her E would be less than a problem if she couldn't proc max damage so easily that early in the game.

DracosKasu2 votes

Most of the hyper carry that are currently popular are low risk high reward. I do believe that pushback like ability should be remove from them if they have already mobility like ability or stealth.

Critmaster Garen28 votes

{quoted}

Self Peeling Late Game Hyper Carry

this combination of words shouldnt exist.

Flawless Fetus6 votes

Not to mention the best range/atk speed steroid in the game. Lol.

Critmaster Garen9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blended Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GeaEGwcp,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-02-05T01:46:43.444+0000)

Not to mention the best range/atk speed steroid in the game. Lol.

and hypermobility.

Reformedfindlay3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GeaEGwcp,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-02-05T01:09:39.097+0000)

this combination of words shouldnt exist.

Preach brotherman garen. Fuck i even made a thread when i saw that phrase, i literally stopped reading this garbage OP and made a thread just off of that supposed identity.

ZeroAgainst27 votes

rocket jump neds the reset removed no matter what u say its stupid on a late game carry who also gets the longest range in the game and can hit u with a 600 auto thanks to rapid fire and shiv. They either have to rework crit as a whole or finally stop with the ideas of late game adc's as they designed for when games use to be 50 mins now at 20 its completely un fun getting bursted by her then her jumping and bursting another person.

undesirable team18 votes

i love ccing a tristana just to have her jump away because of the shitty buffer that it has. needs to be removed tbh

Naon3 votes

[{quoted}](name=R FLASH EMOTE XD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GeaEGwcp,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-02-04T22:37:55.520+0000)

i love ccing a tristana just to have her jump away because of the shitty buffer that it has. needs to be removed tbh

If you hit Gnar mid jump it messes him up because he is lightweight. IDK why trist doesn't have something similar to this. She has to safe of a laning phase for her to be given so much room to scale like she does.

Zach xD4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Can NOT Support,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GeaEGwcp,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-02-04T23:19:00.652+0000)

If you hit Gnar mid jump it messes him up because he is lightweight. IDK why trist doesn't have something similar to this. She has to safe of a laning phase for her to be given so much room to scale like she does.

She does. After the initial buffer (cast time), she can be displaced mid-air. Just about every Thresh montage has them flaying a Trist as she's trying to jump, as an example.

my top is bad25 votes

I perma ban tristana shes too annoying to play against

Sahn Uzal19 votes

This post actually seems really reasonable. Earned my upvote for that alone.

I also feel what you're fearing here, as a GP main :P

Ralanr9 votes

So, question: Is being the best late game self peeling hypercarry a healthy fantasy to play with? What exactly are the weaknesses of Tristana in this regard?

Yordle Xayah5 votes

I'm willing to assume you don't really play the champion and that you want to learn about her if you're asking these two things, so here I go.

Is being the best late game self peeling hypercarry a healthy fantasy to play with? - This is a fantasy she has had for almost all of her history, or at the very least since the introduction of her Rocket Jump and Reset mechanics. If you ask any pro player (try Sneaky's stream) they will tell you that this is the reason why they play her. It is very important to notice that this is a fantasy that she has always had, even when she was considered non meta and a terrible pick in general so I think it's very double standards and quite shady to suddenly question this particular part of the character only when she got popular, to which I must also note that she has never in recent history been around the higher 50s in Win Ratios. Not when she is good, nor when she is bad. Last year she had a period where she was the least picked ADC and somewhere around the 14th worst ADC in the entire game, and I don't remember anyone questioning if her identity was "healthy" back then, so this why I find your question quite unfair, a bit bias and yeah... a bit annoying. If I wanted to just be a fangirl, my post would be all about how she has no problems, but that would be quite a ridiculous lie. However, to answer your direct question: Yes, yes it is healthy and I just spend a very long time building a post as to what her real problems are, which come in the form of burst damage, a power spike that arrives too early (20 minutes) for a champion designed to get strong around 35 minutes instead, and a very out of place demolishing ability that in a world where Towers are useless, gives her a very unique and rather stupid point of power that has no place in her kit when she can take a tower before the 10 minute mark, as I posted above.

What exactly are the weaknesses of Tristana in this regard? - This is the question that makes me think you really don't know her too well, because anyone that has put around 50 games on the champion can tell you about these weaknesses. I think to discuss Tristana, you need to know Tristana, and this actually applies to any champion in the game, because otherwise there's just not enough experience to view the champion on fair ground. It's very easy to get upset about a champion you're playing against, but unless you play/understand them, a post attacking them may come across as either naive or just ignorant to the champion, making it feel like a frustration-based complaint rather than a real objective one. Let's then expand what "The Best Late Game Self Peeling Hyper Carry" truly amounts to.

  • She has no innate true damage or tank burst skills such as Vayne or Kog
  • She has no innate high AoE damage for team fights like Miss Fortune, Jinx with her Chompers or Taliyah with her feathers
  • She has no form of neutral objective control or siege power¹ like Cait or Varus ¹She has a skill useful during sieges, which is Explosive Charge's damage on structures, and do I really need to elaborate more on why I don't like her being able to do that? Haven't I stressed enough how out of place this is in her kit and how I would actually preferred if it got removed or heavily nerfed?
  • Her power is mostly single target and relies on the proper use of her peeling tools to position properly during a fight

Now that we've laid down those points, let's mention the weaknesses of the style and also why some of these aren't being felt right now.

  • The play style rewards proper use of the tools and punishes poor use of the kit: As I've mentioned before, Rocket Jump is on a fairly long 14 Seconds cool down, and without a reset it can only be used once during an engage. If you use your jump to chase a bad kill, you're dead. If you use your Buster Shot as a finishing move and fail to do the damage you need, you won't be able to stay safe during an upcoming fight. Need I remind you I suggested reducing the ultimate's damage too? Playing carelessly and jumping into anything without proper setup will result in a very common feature in League: A gray screen. Apparent problems with the play style are a result of the meta and NOT her kit (Other than the Demolishing Structures bit) - As I've mentioned before, she has had this identity for years, many of which (Immediate Post-Rework and most of 2016 and 2017) she wasn't even considered good. So why does she happen to feel so strong right now? Because of two major aspects I've critiqued myself about both the meta and Trist as a champion but I guess I'll mention them again: First: She should NOT be a bursty character. She needs to work her way towards those resets, not get them via two auto attacks. She needs to be a steady DPS, long ranged character, not (as I stated in my original post) a ranged assassin. Other than the game having way too much damage in general (this is common knowledge) there's a second factor contributing to this. Two: Critical Strike Items are too cheap for how efficient they are. Remember what I've said about these items being available so early into the game? Is it fair that she's jumping, bursting and resetting 20 minutes into the game? Of course not. And here's an interesting bit of trivia you probably didn't know: Her kit right now, based the raw numbers it has Is Objectively worse than the one she had when she was the 14th worst ADC in the game so what changed?... Critical Strike Items.

  • Beat her in lane, Drive that advantage home... except that: The main reason why she wasn't very good for the longest time, was because how weak her laning phase can be. The passive portion of Explosive Charge makes it really hard for her to control a wave in lane, making it easy for lane bullies or even just characters with a longer range in lane to flat out zone her out of her farm. Professional player Forg1ven made a guide a while ago that accentuates the need for her to avoid trades and focus on farming. So what happened? Ardent Censer Meta - Got a weak laning phase? Get yourself a Lulu/Janna/Karma rushing Ardent and suddenly you're much safer. Critical Strike Items - Again... cheap and effective, they shorten what should be her weaker stage in the game and suddenly she can duel you on a BF and a Shiv alone. Targon Meta and Fleet Footwork - I personally really like Lethal Tempo but why would I ever bother with that when FF (and Targon before nerf) would just give me a bunch of easy free sustain in lane? Haven't you noticed how all these late game carries suddenly have a much easier laning phase? Someone (in Korea... what a surprise) found out that Hyper Carries can just take FF, stay safe for 10 minutes and then come back to lane with a BF and a Shiv or a Runnans and skip their weaker portions of their power curve. Meta exceptions right now are Varus and Kog, who may have their own set of problems but I won't sit here and pretend I understand how those champions work, but the point is: Critical Strike users are getting a free laning phase through Fleet Footwork and cheap builds so OF COURSE they feel unfair, specially if their fantasy is to be a daring yordle who jumps around pushing baddies away. Haven't I talked a lot about burst damage and cheap effective Crit builds already and how I think that's not good for the game?? Add Stopwatch on top of that and suddenly, that dangerous lane doesn't seem nearly as bad. Then she's also taking free boots making her path to Crit Strike items even easier. These issues take what normally is a fair fantasy, that takes time and rewards proper positioning and make them WAY too easy to get to. It's not her fantasy that is the problem... It's her items and the overall state of Power Creep in the meta that are busting her out

To conclude, and as I mentioned above, Tristana is not a natural Tank Buster, and she herself requires a front line to be played properly. If tanks are balanced or not is a topic I won't go into here, but playing her without a front line is almost impossible to do, even with her self peeling kit. Sure, she may not die, but without a front line, she can't really deal any damage in a fight. Tristana is all about positioning, taking care of yourself and dealing that single target damage. She's very reliant on her own team and positioning, as she usually can take only one target at the time. It's not the same to play with a fed Vlad going massive on AoE and a huge Cho serving as your front line, than playing with a team that had a rough early game and can't provide any of that for her, cause yes: she needs setup to perform at her best and two self peeling skills poorly used can be abused. Her problems lie elsewhere and I think I've elaborated on those heavily bot on my original post and now replying to you.

I can't stress this enough though: To discuss a champion in depth, you have to know that champion in depth yourself. For any champion.

Thank you for your questions.

Flawless Fetus8 votes

I used to absolutely love trist, pre rework, and still play a fair amount of her. I agree with you 100% about buster shot. It should primarily be a disengage. Taking some damage from it is a good idea.

Her "fantasy" is inherently op and needs to be toned down imo. She's a hyper carry with the longest range in the game, loads of mobility and self peel. It's just not a healthy mix. Because of her q, she has some of the highest dps in the game. Which, when coupled with obscene range and (potentially) limitless mobility is a bad idea. Like you said, nerfing her W is a bad idea. Nerfing her passive is almost a bad idea - her range is at least half of her identity. But her having (potentially) obscene levels of mobility, self peel, the best range in the game, and one of the best AS steroids is questionable. I think a lot of her problems could be resolved with a Q nerf

nyakasgoods8 votes

{quoted} The Best Self Peeling Late Game Hyper Carry

Read: I want to be able to 3shot everyone lategame while being untouchable myself.

Yordle Xayah7 votes

I think I mentioned it pretty clearly: She should be a steady DPS carry, not bursty. I thought I made it clear enough that I don't think burst from a distance is fair.

Please don't reduce my argument to a single statement, or I wouldn't have taken the time to build the entire post.

Tychusfindlay9188 votes

If that is truly her identity then fuck her identity, she needs a new one.

"best self peeling high range hypercarry" is bullshit.

Yordle Xayah4 votes

Please refer to my answer to the user Ralanr, where I elaborate on the topic even further.

Please do not reduce my entire argument to a single sentence, because if the state of a champion was that easy, then there wouldn't be any complaints about any champion ever.

PB4UAME2 votes

You still have yet to offer a sufficient explanation about how first off, having the word "best" anywhere in your fantasy is okay, let alone a good thing.

But then, what you want her to be the best at is "self-peeling" the one thing ADCs should NEVER have, the ability to be a godlike killing machine without resources, only needing to simply right click, and be out of range, and then have all the tools and then some to peel for themselves.

What you are describing is an archer line that can counter-charge the cavalry and win. Or who can simply out run the mother fucking cavalry, while kitting them to death.

THE WEAKNESS OF RANGED CHAMPIONS SHOULD BE THAT THEY ARE DESTROYED IN MELEE EDIT: as a corollary, this also includes that others are able to engage them in melee range to begin with. No champion should be effectively immune to being gap-closed on. Otherwise, they scale better, hit you several times before you're even in range, take objectives safer/more easily, are ALWAYS in less risk than a melee would be, and if you can't destroy them when you close on them, they'll simply continue to beat you there, given their quintic scaling resource-less damage source. Yet, you even specifically want Trist to be "The BEST . . . high-range hypercarry?!?!?

There is no conceivable way the best hyper carry should be ranged, or else why would anyone ever play melee carries? If they have ridiculous self peel, then why bother with any other carries, that you'll also need to devote 1-4 other people to protecting all game long? Why not just pick this one damage dealer who is already the best hypercarry, according to you, she also then needs the longest range, because fuck all other hyper carries, we need best and most range on the same champion. Totally not at all a design issue for all other hyper carries that now have neitehr the most range, nor are they the best hypercarry as such. In translation, they are weaker, and more at risk than Trist. BUT WAIT! You also want to give Trist THE BEST SELF PEEL!?!? So now she out ranges, and out performs all other hyper carries, is safer than them due to her ridiculous range alone, but then also peels for herself better than any of them can? Ahahahahahahahahahahaha, of course you're a Trist main.

The best hyper carry should be THE MOST at RISK of being gap-closed on and BLOWN UP while being the single MOST RELIANT ON THEIR TEAM AND ON THEIR OWN POSITIONING of LITERALLY ANY CHAMPION IN THE GAME BAR NONE Not have the best of three worlds on already the strongest, most game-warping class, that currently pays far too little for covering up all of their weaknesses with items. the solution isn't then, to remove any and all weakness from their kit too, and making them the best at three different hugely important aspects of the role they play.

Ahri Baka6 votes

I'm ok with her being a hyper carry in late game , but with late game I mean 35th+ minute , not the 15th minute

Kaeblen5 votes

This is probably the best critique of adc's, and Tristana specifically, that I have ever found from an adc main. As someone who played against trist ALOT when she was overpowered, you explain her perfectly. She is very, very hard to pin down in a fight, since she can self-peel like no other adc (except Vayne--I won't discuss her though), but then she can get killed super fast if she uses her tools incorrectly.

And then, laning against her, I remember she got this weird Zilean-est timebomb added to her kit and it demolishes towers faster than most other things I've seen. Really, fighting trist, she feels like a complete champion without ever using that power, and then when you think the fight is over, and both sides have disengaged: BOOM. (way more frustrating when it destroys a tower than a champion though) It's not really that Explosive Charge is mechanically difficult to deal with, so much as it just doesn't seem to belong.

I can also agree about crit....

ÈvilMorty4 votes

the explosive charge needs to turn into a skillshot like Zilean q

Skorch4 votes

I agree crit nerfs are probably okay, but i disagree on lowering ult damage to the point of just being self-peel.

Sure the execution with ult is a thing that happens, but there is no better feeling than being ulted to safety because she JUST didnt do enough damage. Its very risky like that. As well as the fact that a PEEL ONLY ult feels kind of awful on any champion.

Rathar Dashing3 votes

Always love reading your posts, you really seem to get Trist right.

Yordle Xayah2 votes

Oh thank you! I don't post seriously too often. The Boards scare me a bit lol

[sg-zephyr]

Matxakeitor3 votes

Sorry, but tristana can't have a jump and peel on ultimate, the jump is fine cause can be interrupted and has counterplay, but the cc on her ultimate needs to go cause has no counterplay, does damage and is aoe. Is really frustrating dealing with her, if she is already hard to deal with imagine her with janna or others defensive supports, legit impossible to reach her, her range is too high/jump with resets/aoe peel, she is really safe and does way too much damage for how safe she is.

TLDR: You can't be hypercarry and have best self peeling in the game, something needs to go and i think is her cc on ultimate.

Naymliss3 votes

Tristana is so tilting to play against. She flat out NEVER has to worry about positioning. She can just use her resetable jump or her knockback and keep dpsing. In my humble opinion, if you're playing a champion in the class who has unrivaled DPS, you should at least be at SOME risk.

Hayaishi3 votes

{quoted}

Tristana is so tilting to play against. She flat out NEVER has to worry about positioning. She can just use her resetable jump or her knockback and keep dpsing. In my humble opinion, if you're playing a champion in the class who has unrivaled DPS, you should at least be at SOME risk.

Because her resets are a problem. Why does her W even have a reset when she has a Aoe knockback and the highest range out of all adcs?

Apart from it having a reset why can it be reset in two different ways?

Contrary to OP i don't care if Tristana can destroy towers. In todays meta game it is really irrelevant because ADCs destroy towers with their team anyways. What i care is that she is a low skill, high reward champion and what she needs is more vulnerability.

Yordle Xayah6 votes

It's not the resets themselves: It's how easy she can get them

So let's find out why she suddenly is finding her resets so easily, despite her kit being worse than what she had when she was the 14th Worst ADC in the game.

  • Burst Damage: From cheap Critical Strike items, she gets to burst squishy characters very easily. I've stated myself that she should not be able to do this, as I think she should be a steady DPS ranged character not (I said it before) some kind of ranged assassin. That's cheap, silly and unfair.
  • How is she getting these items so easily?: They are cheap, and she's not getting punished in her laning phase. She takes Fleet Footwork for easy sustain, takes Stopwatch and free boots at 10 minutes, and suddenly there's a lot of gold you're skipping that you can invest on those bursty items.
  • Damage in General: I think everyone has noticed how high damage is everywhere on the game right now. So, if her team is doing well and dealing those heavy amounts of damage, of course she can jump in and get those resets... if her team is ahead. Playing from behind and without a front line complicates things a lot, particularly because she's mostly a Single Target damage dealer.

You can't put her resets in a vacuum and point to that as the real problem. You must do some detective work by following the clues:

Her resets annoy me... ok, but they weren't as annoying before, even though they haven't been touched for years. Something around her must have changed. She's being presented with a bunch of situations she can abuse that clearly weren't there before, or these resets would have been nerfed long ago, so what changed? Oh, her burst items got cheaper and easier to get. Her laning phase got a lot safer from Runes. Tanks are stronger, so her front line is even better than before. Damage in the game has been rising, so if her team is already dealing a lot of damage and she then jumps at 20 mins with 2 items and burst a target with two shots, of course she's getting resets way too easy, and of course it's not fair.

See? Detective work! [slayer-jinx-wink]

HalcyonDweller2 votes

That was a little bit patronizing, but aside from that these are all really good points. +1

Naymliss2 votes

Tristana still needs some of her safety toned down. At mid levels she can push side lanes without vision and get away with it because of her w and R. She's also still way too safe in late game teamfights and is practically unkillable due to a combination of her range, ulti, and jump. So here are my proposed solutions:

  1. Make her W and R range scale with level. This makes it so enemies can actually kill an adc who is solo pushing without vision
  2. Make her w reset a partial reset like yi or kat's. This way she can't jump into a stupid situation to pick up a reset on either a bomb or a takedown, then jump out
  3. Reduce her passive range. This way if she wants to get damage down, she better be sure she has her jump up or else someone can burst her if she's out of position.

Now, I would only do one of these, as all of these individually would give weaknesses and clear windows of opportunity for enemies to work with while still being the "my team won't peel me so i'll have to do it myself" champ that soloqueue needs.

Edit: If she struggles, buff her e damage to enemy champions. Her e is an ability that has clear cut counterplay and shouldn't cause any issues if it were buffed.

Attticus Finch2 votes

I would be fine with her W reset going away. She doesn't need a resetting dash for peel as she has her ult if jumping away isn't good enough. She doesn't need a resetting dash for engage as she has her passive if jumping into fights isn't enough to get into attack range.

There is no reason for its existence other then "muh big plays". Meanwhile it compounds an already loaded kit.

underscores2222 votes

As a one time trist main (way back in season 2-4) I agree with most of your points.

First off, I don't think buster shot is too bursty. Yes, it does damage (300/400/500 if I remember correctly) but it is also magic damage and only has an AP scaling. It's nice as a peel tool, and it's also nice as part of a combo (jump, shoot, r, jump out) for those more aggressive plays.

Her E is a major disappointment to me. Back when I played her regularly, it was a simple DoT ability which was nice. Then it got changed and it just never felt right for her. I get that, to keep the passive making sense on it, they had to keep it explosivey, but I think she could probably get some interesting play out of some sort of skillshot ability here. What if she used her cannon like a mortar and launched an explosive round at a target destination?

And lastly, her scalings need some sort of work. I like that she still has AP scalings - I think hybrid builds are important and also build choice. I also agree that her AP scalings are a bit lackluster at the moment. I don't think now is the right time to be adjusting them, but it would be nice to be able to take her bot lane as a magic damage dealer instead if the team needed that.

In short, if you wanna nerf/change trist, change her E to something less reliable.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Rising in popularity? Ur a bit late bud. Been this way since season start.

It was Vayne > Kog > Trist > Varus

Now it's Kog > Trist > Varus

hhaavviikk2 votes

I mean her ult could deal 0 damage and it would still be amazing and make tristana strong because it gives so much self peel

Infernal Ironic2 votes

He mentioned kassadin... Oh boy never DO THAT I swear I am triggered

KASSADIN IS ALL TIME MOST BANNED CHAMPION IN GAME

In no way shape or form has this Champion ever been misstreated or TO WEAK For that matter. He was never to weak. The only other champion who I dont remember ever being weak is kha zix

If we are talking about WIN RATE =! FUN RATE then KASSADIN WAS NEVER FKING FUN TO BEGIN WITH

ONLY KASSAWIN FANTASY WAS THAT HE WAS AND STILL IS FREELO BRAINLESS CHAMPION mained by 4-5 (dont remeber what number) Balance team rioters

Point and click anti mage in a lane of 95%+ Mages who can counterpick around 90% of mages 10/10 A hyperscalling champion who bullies while he is effortesly denying your bullying laughing at you since he oustcales you

SirLapse2 votes

Biased. At first he was quite fun to use. It was only after everyone started to abuse him that he became essentially a free win, and that in and of itself was the problem. He didn't require resets to do his shenanigans either.

I've also bullied Kassadin in lane as a Lux since the minion aggro change completely screwed his free Q trades (although he'd be spamming Q to farm regardless from me shoving him in). He used to be the counterpick. You'd do better picking Malzahar who can actually punish anyone instead of just the mid lane mage post-6 minutes.

Teridax682 votes

While I personally disagree severely with what I think makes Tristana interesting unique (as a non-main, I love her new E and think it would make much more sense for her to constantly put herself at risk, rather than use all of her mobility and self-peel for overwhelming safety), I do still agree with a lot of other points, namely that she spikes too early and consistently, and has a conflict between taking towers early and scaling late to hypercarry status. If the goal is to nerf Trist's early power, I think perhaps adjusting her Q to scale later on, and nerfing her more reliable burst as an AD champion, could also help achieve that. I personally still strongly believe that AP Tristana could be a thing, so I wouldn't want to remove all of her base damage (I'd definitely want to improve her AP build independently of her AD playstyle, though), but I do agree that as an AD champion, if she is meant to have top-tier DPS late game, she shouldn't also have large burst on top of that, particularly since that limits her opponents' options when applied on top of her self-peel.

LemurMonster2 votes

Rockets ain't for jumping. Who gave you that?~ Teemo

General Theritt2 votes

No point and click should ever deal burst damage

Syndra What Malzahar Did Nocturne You LeeSin Say?JarvanIV

Riot are notorious for ignoring specific champs with point and click burst or tone them down in noc's case. Otherwise, most of them will eventually sneak back into the meta, and they will remind you why people hate point and click burst. CC i'm fine with, because that's necessary sometimes with the massive amount of mobility some characters have, but if the CC also contains burst, its just disgusting.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

I too, remember the days when Tristana had a moderately powerful early game, a mid-game dip of weakness, and then became a monster after 30-ish minutes. It's a damn shame that Riot killed (accidentally or on purpose) the power curves of old.

Yordle Xayah1 votes

Yes YES, that is how it should be. It wouldn't even bother me if her laning phase was even weaker. Late game carries are a niche in the game that some (like myself) find fun. But then having these stupid 2-Item/20 minute power spikes just ruin those fantasies. It breaks them, making them unfair and quite dumb to deal with. All I want is a fair power curve that provides an enemy with a good window to beat the character while also rewarding patience and diligent play in the early game towards building that fantasy.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

I personally am not the biggest fan of champions losing their counterplay as the game goes on, I would rather they remain equally counterable between early and late game.

My personal feelings aside though, yes Tristana would be more balanced if she were given a weaker early game.

Yordle Xayah2 votes

Remove her ability to siege. Bombs on towers have no place in her kit or fantasy. Reduce her burst. Make her WORK for those resets, not get them with two autos on a mage that walked a bit too much forward. Remove any form of burst from her ult, she doesn't need damage on a point+click skill.

SlampieceHawke1 votes

I like this post because it shows how scared we are of how riot goes about balancing. Half the buff/nerfs they dish out I sometimes think to myself "did they even test this?"

Infernape2 votes

Never forget 7.21 Galio.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Yordle Xayah

Jhin is ACTUALLY Running Riot Games
Memes & Games73 comments
182
votes
After 8 Ranked Games
Memes & Games38 comments
161
votes
PRESTIGE FIZZ LEAKED!!!1
Memes & Games32 comments
131
votes
Re-designing the League of Legends logo for a NEW Generation!
Memes & Games25 comments
128
votes
Imagine if Dominion/TT/Rotating Modes/Nexus Blitz had daily missions that give you free stuff...
Memes & Games34 comments
121
votes
The TRUE biggest loss to League in the last 4 years
Gameplay56 comments
104
votes