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Here we go again... (Garen PBE)

EbonyBladeJ88··2 votes·2,046 views

Base HP lowered from 616.28 to 615 HP per level increased from 84.25 to 85 Base MR lowered from 32.1 to 32 Attack speed per level increased from 2.9% to 3% Perseverance (Passive) [Removed] No longer doubles below (25/50%) health Cooldown changed from 9/4 to 6 at all ranks Changed from [non-epic monsters don't break passive at level 11] to [non-epic monsters never break it] Heal amount changed from [2%/8%] to [1.5/1.7/1.9/2.1/2.3/2.5/3.4/4.3/5.2/6.1/7/7.9/8.8/9.2/9.6/10/10.4/10.8%]

Courage (W) Resists per stack lowered from .33 to .25 Resists cap lowered from 50 to 30 Minion kills to max stacks increased from 150 to 160 [New] Gains a shield that block [12% health] damage 60% tenacity now lasts as long as shield holds [Removed] No longer takes 60% less damage for the first .75 seconds

Judgment (E) Tick changed from [5+1 per 3 levels (max 10)] to [7+1 per 15% attack speed] Base damage changed from 14/18/22/26/30 to 9/15/21/27/33 AD ratio changed from .36/.37/.38/.39/.4 to .28/.31/.34/.37/.40 Hits needed to shred armor increased from 4 to 6 [Removed] No longer deals 33% bonus damage if hitting only one enemy [New] now deals 3/5/7/9/11 (+9-13.5% AD) bonus damage if there is only one enemy in range

Demacian Justice (R) [Removed] the Villainy passive Changed from [deals magic damage] to [always deals True Damage] Damage changed from [175/350/525 (+28.6/33.3/40% of missing HP)] to [150/300/450 (+20/25/30% of missing HP)]

Thoughts?

11 Comments

Ðubstep Warrior2 votes

I think that entire rework is pretty dumb because if you don't build attack speed (which you shouldn't on a tank) you will simply lose a massive amount of damage and tankiness you had before that reowrk.

Romuva4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ðubstep Warrior,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GXZGMWk5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-25T22:51:19.992+0000)

I think that entire rework is pretty dumb because if you don't build attack speed (which you shouldn't on a tank) you will simply lose a massive amount of damage and tankiness you had before that reowrk.

Garen is not a tank. He's a juggernaut. Tanks have a way to reliably engage fight. Garen dosn' t. The only he has is a brief speed boost.

EbonyBladeJ881 votes

And he'll have no Juggernaut Steroid with the removal of Villainy. Am I saying Villainy is perfect? Certainly not. But unless this is to set him up for future changes in which he gets a new one, I'm not for this.

True Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Garen is not a tank. He's a juggernaut. Tanks have a way to reliably engage fight. Garen dosn' t. The only he has is a brief speed boost.

Nothing that they are doing to Garen on PBE changes any of that...

The reason why Garen doesn't build AS, primarily, is that there are no AS items with HP, which he needs.

Garen has no AS scalings; AS isn't actually BAD on Garen - the %40 from TF does help, Garen basic attacks can hurt. Lots of Garen main like to take some early AS to help with farm early.

But AS isn't that good, because Garen can't AA or Q while his E is up, and he uses E to do a lot of his damage. Garen doesn't have many on-hit synergies. So AS is kind of a luxury.

Unfortunately, as noted, building AS means losing a lot of durability, which Garen needs more.

(Do I really need to explain why Garen is a dumb champion to build AS on? I think that everybody here already understands this...)

Tr4shB4NSYST3M2 votes

Im not a big fan of the atk speed scaling, all it really does imo is make it feel a bit better to build triforce in games where its good. Im neutral on the W change but i like the ult change a lot, bout time they got rid of the clunky villan mechanic.

Düff McWhalen1 votes

item 3091 item 3046

Not a Garen main but interested in the recent changes cause they seem odd. Would either of the above items be horrible on this new iteration? Both still give some survivability and attack speed

Danyoja1 votes

Wit's End would be bad now because they took off the on hit on his E, but Phantom might be okay depends if the crit chance is still attached to his E, that said he's going to be a lot squishier now with this W passive nerf so it might not be a good idea to build even with the passive shield and addition chase (stacking the ms with phage might be interesting).

True Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Düff McWhalen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GXZGMWk5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-26T00:28:44.484+0000)

item 3091 item 3046

Not a Garen main but interested in the recent changes cause they seem odd. Would either of the above items be horrible on this new iteration? Both still give some survivability and attack speed

Yes, those items are bad on Garen, in general. Garen scales more strongly with HP, more than anything else. Ideally, Garen tries to stack HP on every item (since his base HP is rather low). Steraks is considered essential by many players - possibly even more than BC. For several reasons Garen pulls massive value out of Steraks. Taking PD, will obviate a lot of that value.

Theoretically, situationally, Wit's End could have been considered. However, if Garen must now build HP for a W shield, then it's a no-go.

Sageace1 votes

Base Stats: Eh, just minor changes to make it more "Whole Numbers".

Innate - Perseverance: Not a huge fan starting with a weaker Dr. Mundo Passive at level 1. I think it should start at 2.0% and then scale. And I'm still skeptical of Non-Epic monsters not breaking it throughout Garen's lifetime, but only time will tell.

W - Courage: Ok, this one I'm curious about. 12% of Garen's HP is Tenacity when you activate Courage. Goodness. I feel it might be procced to fast, especially as AD Garen. I mean, Tank Garen might get an oomph now though. So this is a buff to Tank, nerf to AD/Crit UNLESS you time your Courage with another shield. HOWEVER, losing that 60% Damage Reduction though, yeesh. _Edited: Now that I think about it, it might feel a bit too clunky. I'd rather rely on my 0.75 seconds than a shield. Mainly due to how more "reliable" and "predictable" you make use of it. The shield is less predictable, because anything can pop it real fast. _

E - Judgment: I think the requirement for the Attack Speed should scale. So it starts with 10% for the next tick, and increments for each tick you have up to a cap of like 25%.

R - Demacian Justice: Honestly, if this was the ONLY thing that changed, I'd be ok with that.

When I get time, I'm gonna check this out on the PBE.

ManBearPig9161 votes

For the amount of time He is spinning in fights, I believe it SHOULD apply some level of on-hit damage. Didn't they remove the on-hit damage? Remember they are trying to nerf him in some areas to buff his spin with attack speed scaling. They originally has on-hit as well on the spin, but the've removed it since it was OP in that form. Like, a good portion of attack speed items have on-hit effects. Alternatively, I believe the spin crits, so he could build Zeal Items and go for multiple spin crits. Even if they said on-hit damage while spinning is reduced to x% per spin tick, which would be a proportional ratio of total spins to the amount of autos that spin duration would have replaced, i would be good because he could AOE that damage. (for example, if he can get 15 spins in the time it would take to do 9 autos, on hit damage is reduced to 60% per spin tic, and if he can only do 10 spins in the time it would take to do 3 autos, it would be reduced to 30% there too). It would do the identical amount of on-hit damage per target, but would do it in an AoE fashion. Then, Blade of the Ruined King and Bloodrazor could be options, and not just Trinity Force and Zeal items.

The on-hit effect that was on the PBE could be amended to be fair and balanced. They didn't need to remove it, but they just needed to formulate a dynamic on-hit damage reduction for the on-hits during spin appropriate to be equal in damage when the spin is said and done to the amount of on-hit damage auto attack spamming would have delivered, and potentially could be applied to 5 targets since the spin is an AOE. The PBE prior to removing on-hit damage on his E spawned some videos of it being OP, so the removed it, but it could be balanced. With it removed, the attack speed builds are going to be extremely limited, and he's getting nerfed in other areas to attempt to buff up his spin.

I just want to be able to experiment with some fun builds. I guess Trinity Force, Berserker's Greaves, and the rest AD, or a mix of infinity edge and zeal items, are the way his builds are going to be narrowed down to, if you're trying to benefit from his spin buff. Without On-Hit, you're half useful with Bloodrazor, Wit's End, Blade of the Ruined King, etc. since you'll only be spinning for half the time you're in fights, give or take, and you can only utilize on-hits when you're not spinning.

True Garen1 votes

#LeaveGarenAlone

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