Bramble Vest

Ice5·Jul 12, 2017·3 votes·2,438 views

Just checked the New Patch notes i can go ahead and say some changes i can get behind but...... Why in the hell This item "Bramble Vest" exists???

900 gold that provides you with armor/Damage return and Grievous Wounds? its literally an item you can take on your first back...its way more toxic than sunfire ever was and it can single handedly swap the Meta Top lane...

Why does this Company wants tank meta so much? Shoudnt we want outplays happening top lane in the Lcs? Renekton/Riven/Fiora/Jax/Irelia/Jarvan/Gnar/Rumble hell even freaking Jayce Literally this item can bring into the Meta Champions like Malphite/Shen/Mundo/Naut etc etc that require no mechanics at all.....

And this isnt the only problem what about Adc's? You are literally stuck unable to lifesteal or even win a trade against a full tank that will eat you alive... How is this fun to play? How is this even seem fair???

63 Comments

RalanrJul 12, 201711 votes

This item is specifically meant to counter ADC sustain since their sustain basically made enemy tanks and fighters unintended donators of health for them.

Ice5Jul 12, 20173 votes

so you are saying there is going to break out a team fight on 7 mins top lane? I think you got my point wrong....i am not saying thornmail shoudnt have grievous wounds... I am saying that Bramble vest is way too cheap to be offering so much so early into the game....its build path is ridiculously easy as well And most of us who played a lot in S5/S6 know how broken and abused tank items can get we literally dont want another... Fizz/Ekko/Akali tank top

RalanrJul 12, 20176 votes

How would this bring back another Fizz/Ekko/Akali tank top?

BeatzBoyFTWJul 12, 20171 votes

He probably thinks all top laners plays only Gangplank to rid of his heals.

Ice5Jul 12, 20171 votes

no mate grievous wounds works on all healing effects not just Gp's W

Ice5Jul 12, 20171 votes

i made an example of how tank items get abused.....i never said that those specific champions will come back

RalanrJul 12, 20175 votes

You didn't make an example of how items get abused. You just said that they got abused and you don't want them to bring back certain abusers.

You have no said how they will do that.

Ice5Jul 12, 20171 votes

sorry for the confusion but i think i clarified what i meant....my point wasnt the 3 specific champions. that said i hope you understand my arguement and my concern about this item.

RalanrJul 12, 20177 votes

Oh I understand your argument, and normally I'd have my concerns as well because I generally don't find thronmail a healthy item in concept.

But I'm also tired of building item 3123 on tanks when my ADC refuses to build it so I'm all for the item. And tanks need a core item since they lost sunfire for core.

BeatzBoyFTWJul 12, 20176 votes

I am saying that Bramble vest is way too cheap to be offering so much so early into the game....its build path is ridiculously easy as well

item 3123 item 3033

The level of discrimination in this thread is seriously high....

PennsJul 12, 20172 votes

Executioners makes you pay for the passive, Bramble Vest is broken.. So ye

RalanrJul 12, 20173 votes

How does it make you pay? Gold efficiency or because it doesn't offer enough stats for it to be an early rush on an ADC?

PennsJul 12, 20171 votes

Long Sword gives 10 AD, then you pay 450 gold for 5 AD which is nothing and the passie. And its still a strong item.

Bramble Vest has 35 armor and only costs 100 gold more than 40 armor Chain Vest. Then it makes the Renekton that does a quick auto - W combo on you take 60 or 80 damage with fury on top of grievous wounds. It only lasts 1 second so its not out of this world broken but.. I still think its too strong.

Same goes for Hexdrinker, from the patch notes: "Thornmail’s redesign makes it a strong answer to healing-heavy comps, but its price point is too high for it to serve as a timely reaction to an out-of-control threat. We’re introducing Bramble Vest to make the Thorns passive available at lower gold investments. This is a paradigm you’re probably familiar with on other items..".

I think this is wrong, you shouldnt have broken early game rush items like that build into full late game items, its basically like making Dorans items build into big ones.

Ravenous HowlsJul 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

so you are saying there is going to break out a team fight on 7 mins top lane? I think you got my point wrong....i am not saying thornmail shoudnt have grievous wounds... I am saying that Bramble vest is way too cheap to be offering so much so early into the game....its build path is ridiculously easy as well And most of us who played a lot in S5/S6 know how broken and abused tank items can get we literally dont want another... Fizz/Ekko/Akali tank top

But it is ok for champions to buy Executioners Calling for 800 gold, 3 seconds of grievous wounds and 15 AD?

Jar Jar binks lJul 12, 20174 votes

because lifesteal is out of control

Ice5Jul 12, 20173 votes

since when? You can even Check that some of the Summer Split Lcs matches only the ADC picked Lifesteal in their build path...... That said how buffing tanks and forcing champions that actually require mechanics out of meta going to help anything?

KuroCaliberJul 12, 20173 votes

That's because many champions have it built into their kit. Vlad, Swain, Olaf, champions who build catalyst, anyone with spirit visage, etc

Ice5Jul 12, 20172 votes

when was the last time you saw Vlad/Olaf/Swain into a game? They are literally nowhere to be found in this meta so targeting non meta picks like them literally makes no sense...

KuroCaliberJul 12, 20172 votes

Also most fighters build some kind of lifesteal through ravenous, deaths dance, elixir of wrath. Fiora has it in spades in both her kit and normal build. She's a seriously counter to tanks on every possible way.

Ice5Jul 12, 20172 votes

I think most people confuse the Concepts a Tank in any game MMORPG or even a Classic RPG like DND is someone who tanks....In this game a Tank full tank build can arguably take down in a 1v1 an ADC / DueList / APC or even Assassin We shoudnt give champions that require 0 mechanical play the "easy way out" And i dont think "Buffing tanks" is going to help the game in any way shape or form.... We might end up with Longer games....( hopefully not S4 longer ) Having Mid laners like Zed/Talon Disappear from the meta And be Stuck playing Trundle/Poppy/Mundo/Shen/Naut Top lane again.....

In my personal opinion i think most people would like to see More outplays and fights in the LCS when watching top lane rather than a farm fest

RalanrJul 12, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I think most people confuse the Concepts a Tank in any game MMORPG or even a Classic RPG like DND is someone who tanks....In this game a Tank full tank build can arguably take down in a 1v1 an ADC / DueList / APC or even Assassin

Ok, first off, MMORPGs function differently from league. Mainly in that league is primarily PVP so they can't just draw aggro against computers like you can in a PVE game. Tanks need ways to make people focus them.

There are also tanks that are stuck in solo lanes and as such need kill pressure to actually make their lanes interactive. Otherwise they just farm under tower automatically and be a free win for everyone else if they even try to fight.

We shoudnt give champions that require 0 mechanical play the "easy way out"

Sion Gnar Poppy Shen and Galio are not 0 mechanical. Not all tanks are as simple as fucking Malphite . Yes tanks are easy to play compared to assassins, but I don't see giving them a GW item as an "easy way out" if their ADCs refuse to build theirs.

And i dont think "Buffing tanks" is going to help the game in any way shape or form.... We might end up with Longer games....( hopefully not S4 longer ) Having Mid laners like Zed/Talon Disappear from the meta And be Stuck playing Trundle/Poppy/Mundo/Shen/Naut Top lane again.....

Longer games is what people (like ADCs) want so they can farm up for late game. Zed and Talon disappearing is possible, but that isn't bad (metas change after all) and they might not even leave because assassins can burst down adcs quickly, especially if ADC sustain is being weakened in teamfights.

And Mundo/Trundle wouldn't be seen much if GW in top is too strong since it kinda counters them hard.

In my personal opinion i think most people would like to see More outplays and fights in the LCS when watching top lane rather than a farm fest

And teamfights won't allow for outplays?

Ice5Jul 12, 20171 votes

Gnar isnt even a Pure tank....and he wont be meta with this item no matter how you Cut it... Shen/Galio/Poppy are literally some of the champs you can never be punished for your mistakes... Pushing the Wave and Diving is Next to impossible/Lane Freezing simply wont work... Playing against such champions when they are in the Meta is literally you getting stuck in a lane phase where you cant trade and you wait for it to end....

No Human in the universe wants longer games....the longer the games go the more toxic the community gets. Trundle literally steals your armor and Magic resist in a tank meta he thrives its not about the health steal lol... Mundo is a perfect choice with this item against any duel type champion...you simply cant win...and trust me i doubt he will feel threatened against another tank.

That said most of these "changes" and reworks are possibly happening for low elo like bronze/silver/gold Its sad because these people feel like Riven/Fiora/irelia/Jax or whatever are OP....because they clearly dont know how to play the game.

Riot apparently babysits this audience and gives them easy ways out....its sad really

RalanrJul 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Shen/Galio/Poppy are literally some of the champs you can never be punished for your mistakes.

Yeah that's not true. Every champion can be punished for their mistakes, but punishment isn't always "bursted to death".

Pushing the Wave and Diving is Next to impossible/Lane Freezing simply wont work... Playing against such champions when they are in the Meta is literally you getting stuck in a lane phase where you cant trade and you wait for it to end....

So you don't know how to roam do you?

No Human in the universe wants longer games....the longer the games go the more toxic the community gets.

That's also not true, we've had people want longer games. Toxic people show up in short metas often as well, often asking for early surrenders after one death in lane. In longer metas, one death in lane isn't the end.

Trundle literally steals your armor and Magic resist in a tank meta he thrives its not about the health steal lol...

He steals resistances, but Trundle mainly wins fights through attrition and sustain. You cut that off and he's going to actually lose trades.

Mundo is a perfect choice with this item against any duel type champion...you simply cant win...and trust me i doubt he will feel threatened against another tank.

Mundo's entire kit functions based on how easy it is to apply GW against him. This item is his direct counter to him from tanks.

That said most of these "changes" and reworks are possibly happening for low elo like bronze/silver/gold Its sad because these people feel like Riven/Fiora/irelia/Jax or whatever are OP....because they clearly dont know how to play the game.

Says the guy who apparently doesn't know how to roam.

Riot apparently babysits this audience and gives them easy ways out....its sad really

This could be said for anyone though, assassins, mages, adcs, fighters, tanks, supports. Whenever they get a boost we get people saying Riot "caters" to those specific players.

They don't. That's just salt talking.

FuhrerRicoJul 12, 20174 votes

Stop saying tanks require zero mechanics, you're obviously biased.

Ice5Jul 12, 20172 votes

ok please tell me how can you fail playing a tank? What will you do Miss your Malphite Q? You are literally stalling the entire lane phase... Not trading not fighting How is that the optimal gameplay in any way shape or form? You can go ahead and tell me that tanks can trade with each other but really? You think a Nautilus will outplay kill a Malphite? or that this Matchup requires any kind of skill involved?

If you truly think that there are mechanics involved you are clearly playing a different game

RalanrJul 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

ok please tell me how can you fail playing a tank?

You can engage poorly, fail to protect and peel your teammates, etc.

What will you do Miss your Malphite Q?

Wow, you're going to use a targeted spell in your argument of tanks being unable to fuck up? Ok, I'll play along.

Can you miss your AA as a marksmen? Blinds and dodges don't count since untargetability does't seemingly count for above.

You are literally stalling the entire lane phase...

And this isn't an effective strategy because?

Not trading not fighting

Yeah that's bullshit. There are tanks that trade and fight. It's why they have kill pressure to make their gameplay interactive.

How is that the optimal gameplay in any way shape or form?

And here you're kinda getting deep into your bias.

You can go ahead and tell me that tanks can trade with each other but really? You think a Nautilus will outplay kill a Malphite? or that this Matchup requires any kind of skill involved?

Yes, I wouldn't say in the mechanical aspect but there is skill involved in that match up.

If you truly think that there are mechanics involved you are clearly playing a different game

And you seem to think league is all 1v1 "skilled" fights.

Ice5Jul 12, 20171 votes

You clearly are Blind on how the game Works... at this point even responding is a waste of time cause you woudnt understand anyway

Stalling the entire lane phase isnt a strategy its the lack thereof

You shoudnt even compare a tanks mechanical aspect to an ADC AA that you mentioned happens in your Elo in bronze 1 in higher Divisions ADC's use what we call Shutter Step... and yes you can fail that!

Its not about the 1v1's its about being able to apply pressure to your enemy... but i guess the guy who wants to play longer games at Bronze 1 woudnt understand what this means....

RalanrJul 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You clearly are Blind on how the game Works... at this point even responding is a waste of time cause you woudnt understand anyway

I feel this is the pot calling the kettle black.

Stalling the entire lane phase isnt a strategy its the lack thereof

It isn't a strategy? Really? So stalling out an enemy so they lose early momentum and can't snowball or forcing them to take risks in other lanes isn't a strategy?

Turtling is a strategy dude, it's always been one.

You shoudnt even compare a tanks mechanical aspect to an ADC

I compared one dumb aspect of a class to another. If you're going to say tanks are easy because Malphite can't miss his Q, then I'm free to say that ADCs are easy because they can't miss their auto attacks.

Yes I know ADCs are more mechanically difficult. I'm telling you that your example to represent tank difficulty was incredibly biased and ignorant.

AA that you mentioned happens in your Elo in bronze 1 in higher Divisions ADC's use what we call Shutter Step... and yes you can fail that!

Yeah, I fucking know. But that's no about missing the auto attack, that's about keeping them up while you're moving or trying to keep safe from the enemy. When it comes to actual auto attacks, they can't miss once in range. Like Malphite's Q.

Its not about the 1v1's its about being able to apply pressure to your enemy... but i guess the guy who wants to play longer games at Bronze 1 woudnt understand what this means....

Pressure? You mean like zoning with CC and telegraphed spells? Or do you mean, "Hey, if you fight me, I have enough stats to beat you" kind of pressure? Or not, then please enlighten me since you're much more well informed on the subject. If you want to give up, go for it.

Ice5Jul 12, 20171 votes

Apparently you are Mad....lol sorry about that brah but i will share some of my Knowledge to a Bronzie like you... ( with a 48% winrate ) Pressure is what you create from openings such as Missed spells/Low Mp/bad Position or even Higher stats... Thats why Counter Picking is so important in Solo lanes...

Shutter step is something everyone has to Use....no one autohits and stands still in higher elo.... Shocking i know but it helps you remove vital parts of animation giving you a slight advantage!

there are so many things like Minion agrro lane manipulation and proper trading that a tank simply wont be punished for....giving tanks more options simply removes gameplay aspects in the long run.

You need to understand this game is suppose to be a competitive game not a casual one.

RalanrJul 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Apparently you are Mad....lol sorry about that brah but i will share some of my Knowledge to a Bronzie like you... ( with a 48% winrate )

Ok.

Pressure is what you create from openings such as Missed spells/Low Mp/bad Position or even Higher stats...

MP? And if it's from missed spells, then zoning with telegraphed tank spells like Sion's Q are pressure abilities. So tanks can cause pressure.

Thats why Counter Picking is so important in Solo lanes...

Though that depends if the counterpick is really worth it over teamcomp. But yeah, it is important.

Shutter step is something everyone has to Use....no one autohits and stands still in higher elo.... Shocking i know but it helps you remove vital parts of animation giving you a slight advantage!

Wow, it's almost like you seem to think I think all adcs only stand still when fighting. My argument wasn't that they don't kite, it's that AA's cannot miss because they cannot miss after firing.

there are so many things like Minion** agrro lane manipulation and proper trading** that a tank simply wont be punished for....giving tanks more options simply removes gameplay aspects in the long run.

Why exactly won't a tank be punished exactly? Not all tanks have sustain in their kits and sustain they build from items are passive so they don't get to heal up often in combat barring a few exceptions like Maokai.

You need to understand this game is suppose to be a competitive game not a casual one.

The game can be played for both so I don't see why you need to tell me this.

Ice5Jul 12, 20171 votes

All tanks have sustain in their kits thats what makes them tanks..... All Tanks have Sustain thats what makes them tanky in the first place... All tank items can be Bought slowly since they require mostly Cloth armor and Ruby crystal... Thats not the Case with AD or AP items. And this is why an item like Bramble Vest gives them a way to scale against duelist's way too early into the Lane Phase.....

Now in the lane phase -you cant freeze lane cause a tank can always sacrifice some HP for a few minions to unfreeze the wave.... (without requiring a junglers help) -You cant shove the wave 90% of the Tanks have Auto hit resets meaning they can farm undertower without an issue -Trading against a Tank undertower is a bad choice most of the time they are Tanky...and they have lots of CC's in their kits...

And now thanks to Bramble Vest auto hit trading is not going to be optimal....

Now in the Overall game what this means.... -Full Ad comps are not going to be viable at all.... -Adcs wont have a way to deal against fed tanks -Assassins are Doomed -Top lane will either be a Tank vs a Tank or Caster vs a Tank

At the end of the day this item needs to be Reworked/Nerfed/Deleted

RalanrJul 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

All tanks have sustain in their kits thats what makes them tanks..... All Tanks have Sustain thats what makes them tanky in the first place...

Amumu Galio Leona Braum Gnar Malphite Poppy Rammus Sejuani Shen

Tanks with no in built sustain. I could argue Sion because his health gain isn't much.

All tank items can be Bought slowly since they require mostly Cloth armor and Ruby crystal... Thats not the Case with AD or AP items.

Longsword costs 350. The difference in the common two AD items for early builds is literally 50g.

And this is why an item like Bramble Vest gives them a way to scale against duelist's way too early into the Lane Phase.....

Now personally I think you're right here.

Now in the lane phase -you cant freeze lane cause a tank can always sacrifice some HP for a few minions to unfreeze the wave.... (without requiring a junglers help) -You cant shove the wave 90% of the Tanks have Auto hit resets meaning they can farm undertower without an issue

What? Galio and Poppy maybe, but I don't know of many tanks with AA rests.

-Trading against a Tank undertower is a bad choice most of the time they are Tanky...and they have lots of CC's in their kits...

And now thanks to Bramble Vest auto hit trading is not going to be optimal....

Now in the Overall game what this means.... -Full Ad comps are not going to be viable at all....

Which is good. It allows for more diversity in teamcomps.

-Adcs wont have a way to deal against fed tanks

Last whisper and LDR are still around.

-Assassins are Doomed

Assassins were never supposed to be a threat to tanks.

-Top lane will either be a Tank vs a Tank or Caster vs a Tank

Or just not sustain heavy champions. GW only lasts for 1 second, you can pop a potion after trading.

At the end of the day this item needs to be Reworked/Nerfed/Deleted

Maybe. We'll see.

Ice5Jul 12, 20171 votes

Poppys Q is a Reset Malphites E is a Reset Maokais Q is a Reset (i could go on...but the point is tanks have no Issue farming under tower)

Lol removing Ad comps doesnt add Diversity it does the exact opposite xD

also what i meant by assassins i meant Zed/Talon type champions... Normaly they woudnt be an issue but in the early game you could fight or at least try to survive now...its a lost battle from the first back.

LW is still around but only works on Bonus armor not Overall Armor unlike in the older seasons so tanks will always be tanky...

Now 350 long sword doesnt sound much but 50 gold is around 25 secs of waiting Now if you include that most Ad builds require pickaxes and B.F swords you can see that clearly Ad items are harder to get....(obviously its done so you wont be able to snowball as easily)

But to further illustrate this point lets have Executioners Calling its the Same Cost as Brumble Vest ( 800 gold )

Executioners calling it builds from a Longsword and 450 gold recipe It gives literally 5 damage more than a longsword and the same Grievous Wound effect

Bramble Vest Builds from 2 cloth armor and a 300 gold Recipe While it literally gives 5 more armor than 2 cloth armors Grievous Wounds and reflects 20 damage for each hit you take...

RalanrJul 12, 20171 votes

It being based around bonus armor means that it effects the bonus from all the armor you built. Since tank items got more armor and less health, it makes LW stronger.

Zed and Talon don't go top often anyway.

Actually it is adding diversity as it allows for more mixed damage comps are different combinations. Usually when full AD comps are viable, the are the most commonly seen in soloQ because of how much AD can snowball.

Vest is 900 gold last I checked. And executioners applies GW for three seconds with every hit, hits that's you can direct.

Ice5Jul 12, 20171 votes

you are right about the price of the Vest i checked Wiki and there was a glitch or something dunno...

Zed and Talon wont even be Mid...since ( ad comps will have an issue ) Time will show cause at the end of the day last Thread i made was about Malzahar like a year ago and everyone was negative and though after his rework he was completely fair.... i guess time will show again.

RalanrJul 12, 20171 votes

Yeah. Honestly I don't think vest will turn out well, but as I said before I am tired of having to buy item 3123 on a tank because my adc refuses to.

For once, I'll be happy with a dumb choice.

Rockm SockmJul 12, 20172 votes

Adcs break items and ruin the fun for everyone else.

Riot over reacts and nerfs or creates items that impact other lanes far more than adc.

I agree tanks need a grievous wounds option but a 900 gold early rush aint it.

They should of simply made DD auto attack and melee only along with Botrk.

I called it when I first saw it on the pbe. This will be worse than the original Doran shield.

Ice5Jul 12, 20172 votes

exactly what i am saying mate... Imagine having an Enemy shen Building Bramble Vest and Ninja tabi....then going for a sunfire cape... How can you even fight that? you cant lane freeze you cant Trade with him and Ganking him will literally be like doing a surgery...

RalanrJul 12, 20172 votes

Why is the lane still going on at three items?

Ice5Jul 12, 20171 votes

Whats stopping a Nautilus picking First item Bramble Vest against a Riven/Kled/Jax etc etc....and then going ninja tabi This tactic literally requires no mechanics has literally 0 risk involved and its fairly cheap With around 2000 gold you now have +65 armor

45 flat movement speed 10% damage reduction from auto hits +Damage Return +Grievous Wounds... I cant see how trading is even viable and i cant see how a farm contest is a "New Fun addition" to the game

RalanrJul 12, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Whats stopping a Nautilus picking First item Bramble Vest against a Riven/Kled/Jax etc etc....and then going ninja tabi This tactic literally requires no mechanics has literally 0 risk involved and its fairly cheap

Buying items generally doesn't require mechanics so I don't understand why you're using that argument.

And honestly nothing stops them from buying items beyond getting the money. But what's to stop the enemy from buying BC or to go roam other lanes?

137434Jul 12, 20171 votes

Have your AP damage source come up and gank then. All that AD is useless against magic damage. If your team has zero magic damage then you got bigger issues than bramble vest.

Also you may not be able to lane freeze, but he will constantly be pushing to your tower and leaving him, not you, exposed. Learn to CS under tower and outscale him. Not every lane has to be a killfest.

Ice5Jul 12, 20171 votes

You dont see the big Picture...this item alone forces all team comps to have AP in them.... Its not just Top and Bot....Mid laners will probably have to be all Control Mages...

That said saying that you have to have your mid laner roam top just so you can beat a Guy who literally cant be punished for his mistakes....because of the Meta is plain wrong.

RalanrJul 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You dont see the big Picture...this item alone forces all team comps to have AP in them.... Its not just Top and Bot....Mid laners will probably have to be all Control Mages...

That said saying that you have to have your mid laner roam top just so you can beat a Guy who literally cant be punished for his mistakes....because of the Meta is plain wrong.

You say that as though having mixed damage is bad and full AD teams are healthy.

Ice5Jul 12, 20171 votes

Well i think its best to have multiple choices for team comps in the game instead of a Tank Top/Control mage Mid/Early Cheese Jungler and ADC with Sup bot... The more options the better for the game

RalanrJul 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Well i think its best to have multiple choices when it comes about team comps in the game instead of a Tank Top/Control mage Mid/Early Cheese Jungler and ADC with Sup bot... The more options the better for the game

Except when the meta delves into full AD teams we get less options.

TyrekGoldenspearJul 12, 20171 votes

Dude ADCs have this item cheaper.

Called Executioners calling.

Mages have the item as well, but more expensive.

Called Morellos. And Ignite.

Ice5Jul 13, 20171 votes

Executioners Calling ( 800 gold )
is literally 100 gold less than Brumble Vest ( 900 gold )

Executioners calling it builds from a Longsword and 450 gold recipe It gives literally 5 damage more than a longsword and the same Grievous Wound effect

Bramble Vest Builds from 2 cloth armor and a 300 gold Recipe While it literally gives 5 more armor than 2 cloth armors Grievous Wounds and reflects 20 damage for each hit you take...

Now in every matchup where the enemy tank top laner has fucked up against an AD bruiser / Duelist / Fighter and is behind all he has to do is Buy this item and Ninja tabi and he will be fine.....He cant be punished for making mistakes anymore... Because from 2 really cheap items he now has

Damage Return Grievous Wounds 10% Reduced damage from Autohits 65 armor and +45 flat movement speed

-This item furthermore Will Wipe out all Mid/Top AD assassins -Full Ad Comps can now be countered way too easily -Adc's will also take a Big hit and will probably lose into 1v1's against full tank champs -And who knows how items like these can be abused in the Future....We've seen the famous Iceborn/Spirit/Sunfire trio being abused in the past... and it caused so much frustration and toxicity...This item can really cause the same effect by creating disgusting abberation champions like the old tank fizz , ekko etc etc

TyrekGoldenspearJul 13, 20173 votes

You overestimate the damage return.

There is barely any lifesteal in laning so it won't matter.

You don't understand how laning works.

You don't understand how trading works.

You don't know how to punish mistakes if you think buying this item will make it impossible.

That is a bloody lie. Mid and Top AD assassins couldn't care less about a grevious wounds, and they do most of their damage with abilities, not autos.

Full AD comps are not something worth encouraging, it kills diversity.

You assume way too much pain will come to adcs. How about actually seeing if that's true before making wild assumptions?

You also don't understand how tank assassins came about if you think this item will bring them back.

Did I miss anything?

Iota ThetaJul 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You overestimate the damage return.

There is barely any lifesteal in laning so it won't matter.

You don't understand how laning works.

You don't understand how trading works.

You don't know how to punish mistakes if you think buying this item will make it impossible.

That is a bloody lie. Mid and Top AD assassins couldn't care less about a grevious wounds, and they do most of their damage with abilities, not autos.

Full AD comps are not something worth encouraging, it kills diversity.

You assume way too much pain will come to adcs. How about actually seeing if that's true before making wild assumptions?

You also don't understand how tank assassins came about if you think this item will bring them back.

Did I miss anything?