"We made it so Urgot can't kill Tryndamere through Undying Rage with his ult

2nd Chance·Jul 27, 2017·114 votes·37,409 views

because we don't want super champion specific interactions"

https://twitter.com/RiotMEMEMEMEME/status/890253269712355328

Why is this okay then?

Isn't this also a 'super champion specific interaction' that you wanted to avoid?

edit -

[{quoted}](name=Beluga Whale,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNl34YPL,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2017-07-27T18:49:02.557+0000)

Hey, just wanted to chime in here. Am the designer on Urgot.

This is currently working as intended, but **will ** be changed next patch to only pull Braum in if he is also below the HP threshold.

And thus, Braum's need to make the ultimate support sacrifice (above 25% HP that is) was saved and given a 2nd Chance to probably give that sacrifice later anyways due to his ADC mis-positioning and then blaming him anyways, by this random dude making a thread.

294 Comments

LyingOnLineJul 27, 201756 votes

The actual answer is that they don't want Urgot to outright hard counter Tryndamere in the form of completely bypassing his ult.

PokladnicaZlaJul 27, 201711 votes

Y tho? I mean,you can't kill Trynda during his ultimate,would be nice having a few abilities that actually allow us to kill someone who can tdie under normal circumstances.

TequilaZombieJul 27, 201749 votes

Because the whole point of Playing Trynd is to not die during your Ult. Otherwise you might as well pick Yi and do more damage and be harder to kite.

TimX24968BJul 27, 20172 votes

yi definately can do more damage lategame (if he builds like tryndamere), but early-mid game trynd has the lead. due to his crit

LankPantsJul 27, 201710 votes

That's not even remotely correct.

Yi has a midgame advantage because of his R and the way how onhits scale. A Yi with a Bloodrazor and BotRK has more damage than a Tryn with Statik Shiv, BF Sword and a Pickaxe or Cloak (for equivalent gold value). Yi also just outstats Tryn midgame.

In the lategame where Tryn has several items his crit becomes more valuable, additionally his R is insanely powerful in the lategame, far more so than anything Yi has.

KaeblenJul 27, 20171 votes

TahmKench I can hard counter Tryand ult, why not Urgot?

TequilaZombieJul 27, 20179 votes

Because Tahm doesn't goes through Trynd's ult and kills him during those 5 seconds, he just has CC enough to take Trynd out of the fight for a good portion of his ult, just like he can do to any other champion. If Tahm could kill Trynd during his ult, then you'd be able to apply this logic.

RequiemsfireJul 27, 201755 votes

Why can Yasuo's windwall block the chains with zero penalty but Braum must die?

RalanrJul 27, 2017105 votes

Because Braum is the wall.

TimX24968BJul 27, 201719 votes

but yasuo's wall doesn't sacrafice itself, only its cooldown.

RalanrJul 27, 201713 votes

... Because the wall can't die?

5000000000000000Jul 27, 201719 votes

But Braum is the wall

japan hate accJul 27, 201713 votes

Yeah. And people can die. The wind can't.

DessemJul 27, 201715 votes

But wind can die down.

5000000000000000Jul 27, 201714 votes

But death is like the wind

chipndip1Jul 27, 20176 votes

But my side

RiotCaptain GameplayJul 27, 201727 votes

Hey, just wanted to chime in here. Am the designer on Urgot.

This is currently working as intended, but **will ** be changed next patch to only pull Braum in if he is also below the HP threshold.

AwesomeGuyDjJul 27, 20172 votes

So basically, braum can completely deny urg's ult. Cool.

DrCyanideJul 27, 20177 votes

You act like Braum's shield completely denying projectile Ults is a new thing.

JoxcabJul 27, 20175 votes

Yeah except those are actually consistent in how they work and still affect Braum with any CC, and this doesn't and is the one exception in the entire game. But who cares about consistency, right?

DrCyanideJul 27, 20175 votes

There's no consistent way to handle this though. No matter what way you slice it there's going to be some part that's inconsistent with some other aspect of the game. They're choosing to err on the side of not 100-0ing someone who wasn't the target, and I agree with that.

JoxcabJul 27, 20173 votes

You still don't seem to understand. It WAS consistent with both aspects.

DrCyanideJul 27, 20173 votes

Show me one other instance where an execute can 100-0 an unintended target and you can claim it's consistent.

JoxcabJul 27, 20176 votes

You don't seem to understand. Urgot's ultimate is intended to be used as an execution but it in itself isn't an execution in terms of damage.

The grinder is MEANT to kill anyone who is in the grinder. The chains drag whoever is struck with them. The chains can only be fired when the R1 target is 25% health or lower.

That is literally the only part the health is relevant. Health is not relevant in either of the other two parts.

Dominick DestineJul 27, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beluga Whale,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNl34YPL,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2017-07-27T18:49:02.557+0000)

Hey, just wanted to chime in here. Am the designer on Urgot.

This is currently working as intended, but **will ** be changed next patch to only pull Braum in if he is also below the HP threshold.

Does that mean Braum's block will be useless or that his block will successfully stop the chains?

Meep ManJul 27, 20173 votes

It means if Braum gets pulled in, he will only die if he would normally die to an Urgot ultimate, meaning he is below 25% health. Basically, if Braum gets pulled in now, Urgot cannot kill him unless he is below 25% health.

RalanrJul 27, 20175 votes

So...he CC locks Urgot?

That's dumb.

GreaxJul 27, 20173 votes

So let me get this straight, now Braum can block the initial R1 marker but also the R2 reel in as well with his E?

JoxcabJul 27, 20172 votes

Yeah, except he won't die anymore unless he's 25% or under too. Which is completely stupid and trashes Urgot's ult.

Killed InactionJul 27, 20173 votes

Yeah, it's really stupid that the ult would only kill targets under 25% HP. I mean, that's the entire point of the ability, but it only doing that is stupid. /s

ParoeJul 27, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Killed Inaction,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNl34YPL,comment-id=0023000300000001,timestamp=2017-07-27T19:26:30.488+0000)

Yeah, it's really stupid that the ult would only kill targets under 25% HP. I mean, that's the entire point of the ability, but it only doing that is stupid. /s

The target was not braum in the first place. He was simply intercepting it. So it makes sense braum would get pulled in regardless of his health. Targeted projectiles of ANY kind dont just phase through braum when intercepted, why would urgots R2?

Teridax68Jul 27, 201733 votes

Is there any specific reason why the chains themselves are coded as a projectile? I think it's relatively fine for the drill itself to be intercepted, as that's the intended gameplay, but stopping the guaranteed chain kill via projectile blocking feels like it's deriving occasionally major gameplay consequences from a tech quirk, which feels exploit-y. Wouldn't it be better if the chains simply materialized between the target and Urgot, so that this kind of weird scenario doesn't occur?

Zenthon PrimeJul 27, 20176 votes

This is the real question. My first reaction to this (and the Yasuo interaction) was that it was a bug. "Intended behavior" makes it sound like it's bad code that nobody wants to fix.

Also dear god get rid of QSS stopping the ult. Its ability to purge Zed ult was removed for a reason.

EDIT: More context further down.

JoxcabJul 27, 20173 votes

Except, that's the intended way both Urgot's R works and Braum E works, according to their 'rules' for what they do and don't.

And yeah, QSS removing it stupid. It's already hard enough to even get off R2 in the first place.

Teridax68Jul 27, 201712 votes

I think Zenthon127 was making the point that the two abilities working as intended here, i.e. Urgot R's chains being a projectile and Braum/Yasuo blocking projectiles, doesn't feel like a good interaction, as the projectile nature of the chains is, in every other case, purely cosmetic. It's the same kind of screwy situation as Yasuo previously being able to block Soraka's Q self-healing, just because the effect was being carried by a cosmetic projectile from the target to her.

To a larger extent, this I think represents one of the more long-term costs of projectile blocking as a mechanic, because it means any tech you implement, including purely cosmetic effects, automatically has a gameplay component attached to it when it's in projectile form. Suddenly you have to start asking yourself what that projectile represents, and how it has to interact with projectile blocking if that so happens. In this case, this means projectile blocker champions gain the ability to double-dip on countering Urgot's ult, simply because the guaranteed kill recast is conveyed through a projectile that should normally be completely unstoppable. It technically makes sense within Riot's own tech, because the chains are a projectile, but in practice the interaction feels really bizarre and unfair.

Zenthon PrimeJul 27, 20173 votes

You pretty much hit the nail on the head in terms of how I view it. When you play with / against Urgot, the chains flying out and grabbing the target is more-or-less just visual flair, not an actual projectile. The projectile is the giant spike sent out by the first cast. When I initially played him I actually thought the chains were already attached to the spike and you just reeled the target in.

My personal solution would be to patch Windwall and Braum shield to not block cosmetic projectiles (Soraka, Urgot, and I wonder if Kayn passive is affected) as well as Taliyah ult and Vel W because they aren't really "projectiles" but are effects travelling across the terrain.

Sexy Jack RabbitJul 28, 20174 votes

The weirdest thing about all of it to is Yasuo can destroy the projectile that Illaoi's E fires after she kills his spirit. But he'll still end up cursed?

It makes no sense and there's no consistency with that shit.

LXIIJul 27, 20177 votes

Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for making yet another exception to the "the only way you survive his ult is if he dies" rule that was very clearly stated to the players on reveal.

As it stands Vandiril made a video that was like 10 full minutes of stuff that already defies this very bold lie we were told, why not add a little more?

I don't understand the "HAHA WE MADE IT 2 PROJECTILES JUST FOR FUN!!!" path that you took, and because of that you opened up a world of counterplay to an already weak and underwhelming ability. Hell it's a missable skillshot to begin with, does next to no damage, AND isn't even a guaranteed execute when the threshold is reached anymore.

Can we just get a new ult? Because this one is trash.

Joseph GladstoneJul 27, 201711 votes

poor excuse for bad coding.

GelsominoKillerJul 27, 201727 votes

It's not bad coding, actually!

That is just the correct interaction: if the impaled target is low enough, Urgot fires a missile (the chains) that will end up dealing 101% current health true damage to the target.

Braum intercepts the missile like his shield is supposed to do and takes the 101% current health true damage and dies!

"Solving" this interaction would actually require to code an exception.

Tristanl0lJul 27, 20178 votes

{quoted}

It's not bad coding, actually!

That is just the correct interaction: if the impaled target is low enough, Urgot fires a missile (the chains) that will end up dealing 101% current health true damage to the target.

Braum intercepts the missile like his shield is supposed to do and takes the 101% current health true damage and dies!

"Solving" this interaction would actually require to code an exception.

it doesn't do 101% hp, it does 9999 true damage.

http://i.imgur.com/p6ScYzS.png

SoccerTrollsJul 27, 20179 votes

So technically Chogath can survive it

FefnilJul 27, 20171 votes

Not really, since to activate the execute you need to be at 25% or less health. If it only deals 9999 damage, then you can only survive if you have at least 40000 health. And Cho'Gath would need A LOT of time to stack that. Although, a 5000 health Braum using Stoneplate and bodyblocking with E should survive.

EDIT: No, looks like a rioter said that 9999 is just of the lulz. It will actually kill anyone even if he has more than 10000 health.

Giggling GrannyJul 27, 20174 votes

vendrill have a video if you have 12k hp you can survite that..(with some shield and stuff) go check it he test it on tahm

TimX24968BJul 27, 20174 votes

get 5k hp on Sion build item 3193 use and bodyblock

RiotCaptain GameplayJul 27, 201724 votes

that dmg number is actually just flavor text. it does up to 100% current HP + a million damage if it needs to @_@

ModCaptainMårvelousJul 27, 201710 votes

If that's the case, then why are there videos of champions like Tahm surviving with his shield? (Not barring stuff like Taric or Kayle with invincible)

Jinzo TorranceJul 27, 20175 votes

Before it was only up to 11'110, now they made it to 1'111'110.

I think.

Gone by NightJul 27, 20176 votes

Urgot is busted af. There, I said it.

SolarisCorvusJul 27, 201743 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gone by Night,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNl34YPL,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-07-27T10:53:58.789+0000)

Urgot is busted af. There, I said it.

Ill never get used to that sentence being said.