Is elise no longer "viable"?

Tormentula··3 votes·1,379 views

Let me start off by saying, any champion is viable in the right hands, even bard. Also noob post warning, I'm level 22.

Anyway, what I was particularly upset to hear is that 5 different people told me that my main is useless. I disagreed with them as I've seen elise in the ranked draft replays (it's how I learn, by watching) and they said elise is basically one of the lower "tier" characters like bard, anybody who thinks they can handle her and is mlg enough to use her, will be brave and cocky enough to actually bring her in ranked, just like bard players are dominant in ranked somehow. Ironically, every elise game I watched, the victor was the elise user, but once again, it's a skill statistic.. not a champion statistic. In disbelief of them, I did research from past and current seasons, and apparently a lot of people are complaining how mediocre she is now, and then due to the harsh nerf back when she was introduced, that very nerf bothered her for the rest of her current life even to preseason 6, and those that asked for a buff got responses saying she's balanced now.. yet at the same time she's bad?

Now the one thing I can agree on, is she's really hard to use... whether it's a skillshot that a minion blocks, a match up issue, and generally jungling is not the easiest job in the world. Of course, I am rather new to the game.. a couple weeks and still learning the ins and outs. Learning when to gank and when not to (I assume if the lane I'm nearby has red near our turrets, I can gank them at level 3 while they can't retreat to theirs) so my thought process and understanding of using her may be shakey, but I'm more focusing on how well elise actually is in general, if she's really "in the meta" rather than focusing on my suck.

One thing that almost convinced me that elise is not that great, was seeing lee sin and tryndamere everywhere. Almost 5 games in a row, the opposing jungler was lee sin who took lives like nothing, not even my own, but my allies.. In one of them, I think he seen me twice all game, yet managed 12/0 by the end of the match. Zac was another one, but I blame my noobish knowledge of the game, didn't know he was a tank you can't 1v1.. he was fed until I eventually figured out what he does. Nocturne was another one, but I actually had no issues counter ganking him with elise. I've seen some good nocturnes, and some really bad ones that ulted after me while I was at full health with a coon ready.. but when I used him myself, my first match was smoother and more beautiful then about 9/10 of my elise matches. I got instantly comfortable with nocturne.. then aram gave him to me and that is where the fun ended... but regardless, I still loved jungling with him, and killing a dragon with no damage by the end of it.. but the reason why I'm not maining him right here (buying him though), is because I want to stay loyal to the design and character I want to main the most and even made me want to play LoL (I like spiders.).

Pretty much, assuming each character is at their fullest potential side by side, the problem I'm seeing is elise doesn't contribute that much in the late game, only early on, whereas it looks like lee sin and noc do that pressure all the time. (I didn't know level 2 ganks were possible until lee sin showed up..) Why run elise who's just as hard as lee sin and not do too much, when you can run lee sin and destroy lives like no tomorrow with the same learning experience? Even in the ranked matched I watched, the winning elises don't exactly do that much contributive, some have more deaths than kills, but lee sin matches get carried by him. Recorded videos on elise players don't exactly prove much to me, since they only show that "one" game where elise did really good rather than a loss, of course only the best game would be uploaded.

So, anyway what I wanted to ask: Is elise as bad as everybody telling me? Is elise actually a good character (not for a beginner yes, but in comparison to other junglers higher ranked). Personally I love using her, I've got her to level 5 yesterday, and it would be a shame if what they said about her is true and I'm too blind to take notice of it, I really want her to be good so I figured I'd ask others what they think, even taking any tips with why elise sometimes is a hold back incase I'm doing it wrong.

TL;DR: Is elise a good champion to use over other junglers?

Thank you for your time. :)

9 Comments

Dreadlocks2 votes

They're nerfing tanks next patch so i'm sure her winrate will go up a little because of that.

runedara2 votes

Part of her problem is adc are stronger so it's harder to gank them. Also with the item cost increase may affect her more than other jungles. All Mage items cost where increased so that could be a factor as well.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

she remains pick&ban in the pro-scene. If anything she´s still too viable right now.

Erockandroll1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAtFA7rs,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-11-30T19:44:07.711+0000)

she remains pick&ban in the pro-scene. If anything she´s still too viable right now.

One of the things that get's me is, The reason the Pro's still play her, is probably why the argument of AP itemization ruining her, doesn't hold up. And that's simply (like most Junglers) don't need many items.

Her E buff actually means that she didn't need to level it to pull off a gank. And that doesn't have any bearing on how much AP she has. And her other core item is Crystal scepter, Which makes her harder to kill while making sure you don't go anywhere.

Terchio2 votes

I feel she doesn't utilize the new items enough. Even though AD champions don't have a true #1 item like Infinity Edge and Last Whisper were, their opening options have started to crowd out most AP champions, at least for the moment. Pros are using her, but I think too many champions are getting freakishly strong at the moment, and when the dust clears, she'll still be at the bottom of the barrel amongst them.

She's highly effective at weeding out a problem champion, but that's about it. With the high amounts of carries through every game, and the emphasis on protecting them increasing, I feel like this is the season for defensive play, rather than offensive, and solo assassins are going to find themselves out of place and perish more often than not.

Tryndamere, by the way, is one of those outliers. He will probably get nerfed down a bit to compensate for Critical Chance being so mainstream. However, Lee Sin will always be a plague, particularly for lower-leveled play. He does insanely well against players of lesser experience (and therefore makes an excellent smurf main, like Katarina, Leblanc, and Jax).

Tormentula1 votes

Yeah, I have yet to see an elise carry a game. I've had many elise games myself, my best being 12/1, but I hardly call that particular game a carry since at the end of the game, I still questioned myself "what did I even do? I killed no turrets.. I did steal a dragon, but the other 3 were just given to me by my team actually destracting them, and I wasn't even there when my team took out the nexus.. I just existed to annoy the other jungler from the beginning, and I took a few kills our top laner could've used to carry even sooner."

It just seems like elise is more of a kill secure jungler, than an actual snowballing champion that abuses kills for herself like Rengar . Her purpose is to stun and help her lanes snowball and feed, but her, herself, can't be relied on snowballing especially since her lifesteal+carry isn't enough to 1v5 a teamfight like Vi or Jax.

I like the fact I can counter jungle a lot of junglers though. The only exceptions being late game Jax and all game Zac , I can pressure their junglers from being threats to my team. That's primarily where most of my kills come from, but if my lanes aren't doing so well, and the game last long enough for the enemy jungler's late game builds to kick in, things can be problematic and all my snowballing becomes meaningless.

The other issue is like you said, the item build. I can never figure out a proper build for her.. there are general items to go for yes, but the problem I have, is that I want power, to finish the jungle item, but then instead I'm forced to be building something else such as armor or MR inorder to keep my jungling pressure and prevent them from late game counter jungling or snowballing me, which distorts my item builds, making sometimes even the jungle item 2nd or 3rd finished. She's a situational build unlike other champions where it's bread and butter what to rush (Kindred MasterYi item 3153 item 3006 ) which makes it tough to get going.

Terchio1 votes

I specifically don't finish a jungle item on her. Besides the new jungle items only benefitting her slightly in Exp, and therefore being less useful in general, I go for a more universal damage item early, and get stronger ganks out of having that quicker. She needs too much damage, too much defense, and too much utility to really stand apart from the lot, a jungle clear item like Runic Echoes just isn't going to cut it in my experience.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

What's wrong with Bard, fool?

Tormentula1 votes

I found most bards to be risky as supports. Ever since the recent patch I've seen them being pretty effective (When I thought my biggest threat was xin zhao, the problem turned into the support bard that did even more jungling than him) he just seems high risk, high reward... high risk as in he can completely help the other team if he places the ults and teleports in the wrong place at the wrong time, high reward as in he can be a secondary jungler that can abuse and snowball with ks he got instead of his adc, something supports can't really use. He's helping the opponent's team half the time, but he can be equally as pressuring.

Not saying he's the worst thing in the world, just he stands out as something to point fingers at whenever a game with him is lost. He's something I fear when seeing on the other side, but get nervous about the outcome when I see him on my side, which isn't something a champion should do for his own team upon selection, especially when there is safer options like blitz or thresh, who can only screw up by a few bad aims or recoverable misplays, rather than helping the other team in the process of making those bad aims and misplays.

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