Why remove spell vamp but keep lifesteal?

Myrza·Dec 2, 2016·5 votes·1,379 views

I'm just curious. I've only been playing this game for a little over a year now and it was already a bit passed whenever the removed spell vamp before I actually realized it. Now since I'm a few patches behind (I haven't played in a month) I have no idea if they did anything to help the mage game. Really would like to see some sort of spell vamp back since now ADC's can just auto from afar and get healed if they're low and we mages can't.

And yes, sometimes I would build on Ahri if I was behind just to get that Spell Vamp on my Q which would probably have been equivalent to several autos from an ADC. Not all the time, but sometimes. And it did work.

16 Comments

MarshbouyDec 2, 20162 votes

Too hard to balance on a lot of champions. Namely Ryze Vladimir

BeldairDec 2, 20161 votes

Especially Vlad

A Basic IslandDec 2, 20163 votes

not really vlad tbh

it's really more of ryze and a few select mages

Only reason it never got stacked and abused on ryze is cuz ryze didn't care for ap when it was around

WoonStruckDec 2, 20161 votes

Most people have this backwards.

Vlad was hard to balance because of spellvamp; spellvamp was not hard to balance because of Vlad.

Mages were so varied between burst, CD, and AoE/single target that spellvamp could never be an objectively good stat to buy or everyone would buy it. Remember the double WotA meta.

WoonStruckDec 2, 20161 votes

Most people have this backwards.

Vlad was hard to balance because of spellvamp; spellvamp was not hard to balance because of Vlad.

Mages were so varied between burst, CD, and AoE/single target that spellvamp could never be an objectively good stat to buy.

Remember the double WotA meta.

AstôlfoDec 2, 20162 votes

It's too inconsistent due to AoE/DoT/burst/etc. At least with ADCs, it's a consistent amount (autoattack damage).

JmmanDec 8, 20162 votes

I was really thinking about this a few days ago. Mainly when I was seeing ADC go from 30% to full in a few shots. I understand that is was hard to balance around certain champs. But the board honest doesn't think giving ADC and melee a way to heal up from doing their normal actions and not give a way to Casters is balance?

AP item keep getting nerfed. AP amounts have all been lowers. Resists are hard to come by on caster gear. There is no Spell vamp. No mana Pots. NO blue ap buff. no mana for blue smite.

AD items are just the opposite. Jungle stronger with ad champs. ad champ can take ever spot in the game but caster can't.

Maybe its easier to balance AD champs but when you step back and just looking at the whole picture you wonder if AP champs are OP or there is favorite of design. (AD things are funnier and easier to control) I know you might down vote me all to crap but I feel like the AP caster are being left in the dust due to two or three abusers that they refuse to get under control. I bet if you compart AD vs AP you will find there is a great % of champ played that are ad.

I feel like the AP path on any caster is about the same. or you have no damage

the AD path there are different ways that doesn't kill you build if you don't all build the same item.

MyrzaDec 9, 20161 votes

Actually, I kind of agree with you here; I play a lot more mage champs than I do ADC champs and though I do like running away from a fight with low health to another lane to heal up completely on a minion wave without backing, it makes me think of how frustrating it is for the opponent and how frustrating it would be if I was playing against myself. Before then, I didn't have to worry about this kind of thing because spell vamp still existed and I said "hey, if I'm behind, I can buy some defensive items with spell vamp so I can live a little longer and hopefully give some help to my fed teammates." Even though there are definitely some champions that can easily burst down opponents, there's no guarantee they'll be able to do that without taking some damage first, and if you're low, you've used a lot of resources to kill the opponent.

The build thing, yes I agree with that too. My builds for Ahri, Lux, Katarina, and most of my main champs are extremely similar, while my AP supports (like Lulu and Sona) also have similar builds. On the one hand it's easier to remember what items you're supposed to build while not getting overwhelmed by the introduction of new items or changes.

A Basic IslandDec 2, 20161 votes

certain champs are huge problems with spellvamp,

namely ryze and a few select others

vlad kinda but not as much as people believe

its also fairly hard to balance a few thousand damage in burst turned into heal

WoonStruckDec 2, 20161 votes

It actually had very little to do with Vlad/Ryze.

AoE/CD/DoT/single target/burst were so varied that it could never be an objectively good stat to buy or everyone would get it no matter what. Double WotA was a thing for a reason, and they don't want to go back to that.

A Basic IslandDec 2, 20161 votes

although ryze was never an actual problem with vamp, i personally believe he was a huge factor in their decision making remove spellvamp. Imho if current ryze was there back then he would've been one of the leading culprits.

Even back then if you did buy a revolver it just made it soooo damn hard to actually kill ryze. Luckily nobody ever actally got it for whatever reason

WoonStruckDec 2, 20161 votes

He needed other things more, tbh. Not enough item slots.

CresmontDec 2, 20161 votes

honestly, its for balance issues but also that it was a wonky stat you never reliably built it on anyone but vlad so it was a niche stat also, lifesteal is reliable, u know how much and when, it was pretty hard to gauge spell vamp

MyrzaDec 2, 20161 votes

Thanks for all of the comments, I feel enlightened now. ^^'

Mountain WardenDec 8, 20161 votes

Even lifesteal was nerfed pretty hard a few season ago. I remember the days where you could fully heal in two shots with some crit. Nowadays, lifesteal is a bit more subtle.

SanctimoniousDec 8, 20161 votes

Old vlad could pretty much sit back and EQ and bully top with little to no counterplay once he hit level 9. He was a VERY oppressive laner. He had a Q/E system that was build off of healing with decent burst. He's one of the few mages that could really utilize the items playstyle pattern and make full use of the item.

Riven / Fiora / Yasuo Modern lifesteal takes time to build, and it has synergy and counter builds. Unlike old Aatrox Vladimir Irelia Soraka , It's extremely nerfed and situational. Back in S3, We called it "Morello's Nerf Bat" because he hated sustain so much. Heck, he even has a mage item to counter sustain called "Morellonomicon."

AD itemization also got nerfed over time. 1.) Old BT gave 100 AD, and 18%, stacking with each BT bought (People like Talon bought two) 2.) Botrk gave 15% iirc 3.) Hydra gave 10%

AD's are much healthier with this sort of itemization, and mages have it in their kits if they need it.

(Oh here's a list of old champions that were built around retarded heals, and nerfed to be in line by Morello's nerf bat) Ryze Ahri Rengar Taric Akali Soraka Irelia Vladimir Warwick Aatrox