So with Zoe's ability to use flash immediately after someone else...

EkyonKun·Nov 4, 2017·62 votes·5,134 views

In a Zoe vs. Zoe matchup, could they both just flash endlessly in lane?

I need answers, Riot.

45 Comments

ZerdunNov 4, 201712 votes

I would imagine that the copy summoner spell mechanic has a CD and probably has charges as well. Otherwise her top end power would be way too high for her to have any meaningful damage outside of teamfights where everyone pops everything

EkyonKunNov 4, 201714 votes

In her teaser, she used flash 3 times total when chasing Taric and Jinx.

ZerdunNov 4, 20179 votes

Hence why i suggested it had a charge system involved (think akali and Corki R)

In the teaser she would have had to burn her own flash and use the flash she picked up from both the ADC and the Supp. Which is why i suggested that her summoner spell/item copy mechanic is most likely an R with a charge system. during that 2v1 zoe flashes (probably her own summ spell) then flashes again while grabbing the dash mechanic (the second flash occurs when the proto belt ball is entering a collection animation) she then uses proto belt, picks up a flash ball and then flashes for the third time again.

If it has a three charge system like I think it does then what occurred is definitely possible, especially since Zoe screams that she was built around Summoner Specialist

OyddAWqJ5rNov 4, 20173 votes

That's assuming it's binded to her summoner keys. It could be on an ability and I'm pretty sure it is. Also it isn't just limited to summoners, she can use active items too. Even more reason why it would be on an ability.

I'm fairly certain the ability with the 3 bubbles around her is the passive to the ability with the active to use picked up bubbles, since it refreshes the bubbles when u use an active or summoner.

ZerdunNov 4, 20171 votes

exactly why i think it's probably a spell and most likely her R ability.

Balls literally becoming inventory slots (which would be terrible design because her passive then forces her to not have one when she hits 5 items) I just can not see it being balanceable outside of anything but what I was suggesting. 6 item Zoe would have zero use for the ball drops because she wouldn't have inventory space.

Plus making her click a special button that appears on the hud to use the abilities seems like it would be a nightmare to use (would feel ultra clunky for anyone who plays the game with quick casts).

More than likely her R will read something along the lines of R : X seconds CD stacks up to 3 times - whenever Zoe uses a summoner spell or picks up a 'ball' her R becomes this item effect / summoner spell for x seconds. while the R also having a passive ability of (enemy) champions now drop 'balls' when they use item effects or summoner spells. this ball when collected will then become the R ability.

the passive that i think will be on R may be tied to her actual passive (which i think is the ahri fox fire bubble thing that happens whenever she uses a summoner spell or picks up a ball) but i think the ball spawning mechanism will most likely be tethered to her 6 so she gets that whole 'i have the power' moment when she dings while also reducing some of the potential damage she has in lane from the passive shoot the target when summoner spells are used thing

YourNumber1FanNov 4, 20171 votes

i dont think its her ult did you not see the portal thing with the sleep? that looks alot more like a ult then taking summoner spells also she is a burst mage i dont think a burst mage would have a summoner spell activator as her ult otherwise she would be more of a utility champ then a burst mage so if it does take up a skill slot it will probs be q w or e

ZerdunNov 5, 20171 votes

the portal thing is probably something that functions similar to le blanc's dash + port, only it looks like its port + port and no damage, considering it was used to simply dodge an aurelion sol q and it was only shown once

the strongest part of the sleep ball looks to be its large cast range and probably its potential zoning ability. It has a travel time, when it lands it looks to have a short impact looking prep time (for twitch reactions) then someone needs to walk into it. Considering Riot doesn't like really long forms of hard CC i seriously doubt this thing will be the ultimate ability. I

my other reason for stating the copy ability being the ult with probably a charge system is because of how the 2v1 panned out

Zoe casts her sleep bubble then flashes (three bubbles appear around her) - there is a proto belt activation sitting on the ground - taric flashes leaving a ball where his flash takes him that looks almost like a sun(later looks like a randuin's omen).

Jinx gets hit by the sleep bubble and a flash drops behind (further from zoe) the proto belt ball. Zoe walks into the proto belt ball and while the ball starts a neat looking collection animation she flashes again (the flash ball that appears from the sleep is still there)

Zoe then pops the picked up proto belt ball which hurts jinx and maybe taric. Zoe then cast her bounce bubble behind her to pop taric. at this time Jinx starts to fall asleep and she pops cleanse and tries to snare the zoe with the zap ability.

Jinx is standing in between the flash ball from her flash and above her is the cleanse ball. Taric gets dominated from the bounce bubble and the bubble fire. Zoe then walks up to the jinx collecting her flash bubble (and her hands turn a funny color) while a projectile fires from her towards jinx. Jinx casts her ult and zoe flashes for the third time in this mode.

Edit - the flash during the pick up jumps over a different orb

AzadetheNov 4, 20171 votes

Zoe summoner's didn't drop orbs.

OyddAWqJ5rNov 4, 20172 votes

Never said they did.

ZerdunNov 5, 20171 votes

whenever she casts a summoner spell if she has the copy ability available ( i think its the R) the R becomes a copy of said spell. It would be silly for her to spawn the orbs considering that she is the creation point of said spells where the other ones are being borrowed from enemies. If zoe picks up a copy orb zoe's R then becomes a copy of that spell.

AzadetheNov 5, 20171 votes

Her R is the wormhole ability. The summoner stealing is her Passive. She picks it up and has to use it within a short duration.

ZerdunNov 5, 20171 votes

Where has this been confirmed? The only thing i've seen from her gameplay is the reveal. If you have an insightful reason as to why i would like to hear it though

YourNumber1FanNov 4, 20171 votes

i saw some bubbles around her that was gone after each flash so from that it could be a passive as shes the same type of being as AurelionSol and he himself has the stars the bubble things on zoe are most likely her passive not sure what the cd would be tho maybe 3-5 min per bubble? who knows

ZerdunNov 5, 20171 votes

The bubbles seem to appear whenever Zoe casts a summoner spell or picks up a ball.

The bubbles also disappear whenever Zoe has the yellow projectiles fly at the opponent

I suggested to others that the bubble burst is her passive as well

ULTRAF0RCENov 5, 20171 votes

I personally would guess that summoners that are copied don't drop bubbles.

ZerdunNov 5, 20171 votes

The reason why i would think they are is because i believe her burst damage revolves around her burning Summoner spells.

With the new rune Summoner Specialist, Ionian boots and Cosmic insight you can have summs up really often (40% Reduction from these three alone) Flash @ 180 seconds Ignite @ 126 seconds

RaffyQuackNov 4, 20173 votes

Well when she uses a bubble flash, it doesn't drop another bubble flash.

Zombie GerbilNov 4, 20172 votes

This was just a teaser. They'll likely tweak her abilities and make it more like Ahri's ult or some sort of cd like Tristana's jump. We'll see when she is released in PBE. For now, I wouldn't even worry about it. You'll get your answers when she is released.

Better JunglerNov 4, 201728 votes

they wont release a teaser if the abilities arent at least partially correct in what they do.

They wont release a teaser for blitzcrank, then remove the hook from his kit when it goes on PBE:P

Zombie GerbilNov 4, 20173 votes

Never underestimate what Riot will remove and will not remove. I know this by experience. They've been known to not release something that doesn't have a positive influence on their game. I can name a recent champion who had Yasuo's abilities but was almost scrapped, and that champion is Aurelion Sol. Even if it does, they could delay or completely remove it. Many teased champions were known to be not to be released. Been here since beta, and I've seen quite a few champions that were to be released but wasn't.

AnnoxisNov 4, 20173 votes

Ao Shin was iceboxed a long time ago. Most named champ teasers that we never got to play with were also from a long time ago (all before S4, actually).

I thrust your experience, because it is easy to dig up, but things, such as the teasing management of Riot, can change, and I take the bet it did.

Bard R FridayNov 4, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zombie Gerbil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F9POgLLE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-04T07:27:08.570+0000)

Never underestimate what Riot will remove and will not remove. I know this by experience. They've been known to not release something that doesn't have a positive influence on their game. I can name a recent champion who had Yasuo's abilities but was almost scrapped, and that champion is Aurelion Sol. Even if it does, they could delay or completely remove it. Many teased champions were known to be not to be released. Been here since beta, and I've seen quite a few champions that were to be released but wasn't.

lmao. if they release a teaser, the champion is completed and won't be changed at least until it's on pbe.

Zombie GerbilNov 4, 20172 votes

Uhh.. That's what I said? Did you even stop and read my comment?

DarkRitualNov 4, 20172 votes

The Ekko teaser cinematic would like to have a word with you.

LordGeovanniNov 4, 20171 votes

What ability did them remove from ekko im curious

DarkRitualNov 4, 20173 votes

His ult was drastically changed between what it was based off of, and his release ult.

His ult for awhile in development rewound everyone. All players. It caused a lot of gameplay readability issues though, and got changed. But the production of the cinematic was too far along to change to match the kit that got released.

LordGeovanniNov 4, 20173 votes

he did say partially correct. and i would have never expected an ult to rewind everyone as that would be batshit stupid as the only person who could ever be ready for that is ekko.

ElikainNov 5, 20179 votes

That has no relevance to Ekko's trailer. Ekko's ult has had a few iterations and Riot was set on his kit when his trailer came up. The fact that Riot showcased Ekko traveling back in time to fight that Zaunite thug was meant to showcase how his Z-drive works, not his ult.

Better JunglerNov 5, 201710 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtEpp9lkfxA

The abilities are all the same essentially. (not to mention Ekko has a CINEMATIC teaser, while ZOE has a GAMEPLAY teaser.)

I don't see your point. Maybe Ekko used his ult 3-4 times in the cinematic teaser, but its still doing the same effect.

XxXGwanXxXNov 4, 20172 votes

Probably not, you have to consider that the first flashes are "actual" summoner spells, the copies she uses might not drop anything even for an enemy Zoe.

And holy shit I want to see a one for all with 10 zoe's

RocketRelmNov 5, 20171 votes

New game mode, everyone drops orbs from summoners/items that any enemy can pick up? Also summoner CDs reduced by 50%?

Friendly RamNov 4, 20171 votes

I can just imagine them flashing while flashing M7 until a jungler comes.

MythPuppyNov 4, 20171 votes

that's a terrifying thought. Like in a team fight would they just feeding off of each other's and everyone else's sums infinitely? I'm thinking there must be some kind of a limit for her, like maybe she can only do it two or three times and then it goes on CD.

DarkRitualNov 4, 20171 votes

Seems to be limited by the bubbles that surround her. Looked like they got used up as she picked spells and item actives up.

LordGeovanniNov 4, 20171 votes

pretty sure that its gonna do extra damage when you steal a summoner too.

Solidair3Nov 4, 20171 votes

I bet there's a limit

Violet FieldsNov 4, 20171 votes

Kassadin

Oh my god I just found her counter.

Guy Fox TeemoNov 4, 20171 votes

No because I IMAGINE when she uses it, it doesn't count as a 'Summoner' used, and wont trigger off an enemy Zoe.

ElikainNov 5, 20171 votes

No, they can't. Zoe has an ability that replaces enemy summoner spells with her own spells and their summoner spells essentially drop on the ground as bubbles she can pick up (once) to use. Bubbles disappear on pickup. I don't know if this ability is her passive but i would imagine there would be an individual champion CD timer for this. And the enemy can't get their SSs back unless they use the new SSs Zoe gave them (they do something negative, like deal AoE damage and apply Nearsight to teammates).

I don't think RIot revealed this part, i think i saw it from a leak (i think).

It really wouldn't be fair if this was an ability to be spammed, while completely removing the enemy's ability to flash (due you her ability to replace it) at every gank and her having infinite SSs to use with more enemies she has to fight with.

FairyfleurNov 5, 20171 votes

which leak?

ElikainNov 5, 20171 votes

A leak on Reddit most likely. I only saw someone's screencapped image of that post on surrender at 20 which detailed dunkmaster illaoi skin as among other things I forgot) but the part about Zoey seems correct now.

marpatt11Nov 5, 20171 votes

I think that maybe if there are two Zoe's, then if you use a Bubble to Flash that ashe, then it doesn't drop a bubble Example:Zoe flashes onto the other Zoe, dropping a bubble, other Zoe flashes to that bubble, dropping a bubble, they then both flash to dodge a skillshot from (lets say) a jhin and a blitz, they don't drop anymore bubbles.

VentingPaladinNov 5, 20171 votes

Zoe seems to be able to use a champ's Summoner spells and active items that they just used. Look at the teaser, and you'll see bubbles with summoner spell and item icons them.