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Im scared of the twitch changes.

Maddéy·10/31/2016, 4:30:53 PM·31 votes·2,559 views

Hey guys, a rat main here. I made this thread in order to express how worried i am seeing what changes Riot has set for the twitch.

Getting on top of the enemies as twitch is what defines this champion, do not take it away from him please!

First of all, i think it's fair from me to mention that i do not have a PBE account, and i did not test the new changes. I know how it sounds, how can a guy that didnt get to know specific thing complain about it? Well, here's the thing - i didnt have to, because i know the champion i am talking about. I just do, because i love him, and i certainly know what can make him overpowered, and what can make him underpowered. So, let's now get to the point - what I am worried about is his Q change, which is his only change essentially (there has been changes to his W too, but I believe it's not relevant here) Most of you probably know that, but let me explain the changes the best i can. So what Riot basically did, was extending his cloak duration from 4/5/6/7/8 seconds into 10/11/12/13/14. Sounds good, even though he did not need it. Now, there are another changes. His bonus movement speed during the cloak has been lowered from 20% into 10%, but increased into 30% when he is chasing someone. I believe that's supposed to compensate for the biggest change they've made, which was adding detection radius to the cloak. And that is, in my opinion a change that will bury this champion.

The most fun part about playing twitch is being ripped out from us, and that is flanking. The detection radius is making it impossible to get through specific locations on the map without being noticed. I will let myself quote dankittytron, a user from the twitch mains subreddit which had put it way better than i can: "You can no longer reposition halfway through the fight without getting seen which instantly sets up for a lost team fight. He loses a whole lot of depth that he used to have when stealthing and now can be countered then locked down fairly easy in a big team fight. It also takes away from the immersion of the champ, being a sneaky rat who takes uneven fights and disappears into the shadows during the fight to surprise the enemy from a completely new vantage place."

And a word from me - his cloak detection radius is killing his ability to reposition when he is getting a reset off off a deadly poison on a dead enemy. Which is basically making the whole reset thing pointless. Not only that, the radius is killing his ability to position where he wants to be. Lategame twitch is looking for a good flank where he has an enemy midlaner and enemy adc lined up and seperate from the bulkier teammates. He kills them off, enter his cloak and helps his team clean off the rest. You wont be able to do that anymore. Also, he no longer can escape with it. It is hard but doable, and in the future wont be under any circumstances.

On top of that, it seems to me like his core items will no longer be built on him when the changes hit the live server - and the items i am mentioniing are GB and runaan's. First one, due to the attackspeed buff being removed, second one - due to the fervor changes. I would honestly be more than fine with those, after all its not the items that define the champion, but his gameplay. In patch 6.19, his ambush bonus attackspeed got lowered by a very significant amount. Dont get me wrong here, i did not make this thread to complain because Riot had nerfed my champion. I made this thread because in my opinion, Riot is about to kill the most fun and unique aspect of my champion, which hurts alot.

37 Comments

AHarmlessTaco10/31/2016, 4:52:13 PM9 votes

Aw that sounds shitty. I didn't know it was going to have a detection radius. I don't even play Twitch and I can tell you that sounds awful... I've seen a lot of Twitches on my team do well because they run right through the enemy team and pop up on the other side of them. As a support, I normally waited for him to get about halfway through their team before I would try to set up something like a Braum ult or such.

GoronMuncherV11/1/2016, 12:46:25 AM6 votes

Good to see another Twitch main with a voice: so few of us outside of the Twitch Mains (which there are few vocally active from my few visits anyway). I'm with you 100% on these changes being concerning. Sneaking is a big part of what Twitch does and with these changes most of his ability to do so will be taken away. From a balance perspective, the change might be alright, but from a character/ fun perspective he is losing a lot. Combined with the attack speed nerf on his Q recently, the only way I can justify these "changes" are by assuming Riot thinks Twitch is pre-nerfs Kalista OP or pre-nerfs Rek-sai OP and needs to be shutdown. My hope for these changes being reverted is slim, so I mostly hope for adequate compensation. Unfortunately I doubt he'll get that either "W slow % buff reverted to live"

SolarisCorvus11/1/2016, 5:42:17 AM4 votes

Im just a bronzie with only a couple a games with twitch but i find his stealth to make him really unique from the other adcs. I like twitch for the fun stealth plays or to juke people.

Slyx the Rat11/1/2016, 5:49:06 PM4 votes

Hey guys! Im a Twitch one trick pony since i have started playing ranked back to season 3; never changed maining Twitch so far andi got over 2K Games in ranked with him!!!(900k Mastery Points)
My personal opinion about this rework is:

Twitch's playstyle is unique and with this update he will lose his unique playstyle and thats a pretty sad FACT! I dont know if the Q reset even makes sense now anymore when enemys just stand close to him druing teamfights and he try to repositioning with it after a kill he has worked for by kiting and orb walking right using flash right ect. (i thought the Q reset is used to doing this?!) and just cant use it correctly now because there is a stupid detection radius.

I also have to ask @Meddler what the concern there is. And i wanna read from a Riot dev why they are going to do this. I wanna read some clarity! I always have the feel Riot doesnt like Twitch overall. They've left him for one year with the way too harsh nerf with 6 seconds delay on Q in the past. They didnt cared about him before they finally buffed hi ma bit and took it to 4,5 seconds instead.

What justifys this changes to him? First Riot said they dont will touch him that much. But he is a big part of assassin rework now! I feel backstabbed!!!!

I just can hope for me and all other big passionated Twitch mains that riot will react if he struggle after this shitty rework and that they dont leave him alone on the ground for too long without giving him some tweaks/buffs he rly need to compenstae that awful Q rework!

Im a very frustrated Twitch main and i have to say i never raged about a Twitch rework... i mean he has received alot of. But this is the first remake which makes me cry alot!

Pretty frustrated and desperate! :[

Jad11/1/2016, 4:59:51 PM2 votes

They are definitely taking away something from Twitch that made him so fun to play.

Leo102411/2/2016, 7:00:01 PM2 votes

Rengar ultimate has it

Evelyn's passive has it

Sure shaco and wukong don't but they're stealthed for a significantly shorter time, teemo doesn't either but I mean the guy can't move

I feel like this will really help against the frustration of playing against twitch

Melledoneus11/1/2016, 2:12:56 AM2 votes

They need to either make the detection radius really freakin small (1-1.5 Teemos) or revert the changes.

xWaters10/31/2016, 9:44:53 PM2 votes

Twitch is my 3rd most played champion. Sucks to see this happening to him. If anything I'd like to see the detection radius lowered.

Ackelope11/1/2016, 4:49:56 AM2 votes

What if they made the detection radius on his stealth get periodically smaller as he levels it up, being slightly larger than it currently is at rank 1, and eventually becoming much smaller than it currently is at rank 5? I wouldnt know the exact numbers to put to that, but it was my immediate thought. Or maybe make it full on invisibility at rank 5? idk

pupper goes woof11/3/2016, 4:50:30 AM1 votes

I think that the biggest point made here is that the changes make Twitch less unique. The relative difficulty of getting into stealth mid-combat as well as the smaller MS buff on his q made Twitch's playstyle reliant on sneaking up on people, but now he has a reliable AS steroid and a less reliable stealth, pinning him to an average carry with a long-range ult.

Taztingo11/4/2016, 4:41:34 AM1 votes

I'm a Twitch main as well, and I stopped playing Twitch recently because the changes are really going to impact him. I can understand that giving him invisibility might be too strong, but giving him camouflage is too weak. His Q needs to be changed, or the rest of his kit needs to be tuned around the camouflage.

Some things we are losing are the ability to get safe trades in lane. Q -> aa, and the Q -> aa, w, aa, e. Any champion will just avoid that free trade that we got to keep us relevant in lane. Yea we can clear a little bit faster, but I don't think giving an assassin adc wave clear makes sense...? That additional wave clear is also lowering our damage in trades. No one is going to stand in that W especially mobile adcs.

We are also losing the ability to gank other lanes. A great way to ambush any champion was just to auto on top of them after they burnt their spells. A free window to just burst them, and then ult if they flash away. Now they will just run if we come... We lose assassination potential.

We also lost a huge power spike which was ghostblade.

One of twitch's flaws is his lack of escape if they have pinks. Well we are still impacted by that, and champions can see us without the ward. Escapes will be even harder.

Positioning in fights is going to be a lot harder because of camo...

Like I said before just change how Q works, or make the rest of his abilities work with camouflage.

midnight oil2411/8/2016, 9:34:49 PM1 votes

I only play twitch from time to time, so maybe I'm not qualified to speak on this, but I like this change. It makes you have to think more strategically in how you use your q. It also makes it less frustrating for your opponents. But you get extra time to reposition, and it makes people have to find the perfect time and place to q to get the maximum effect from it. Makes him more of a "get behind the enemy" kind of character instead of a "Oh look! I'm going to butcher all of you and you can't stop me from setting this up! Trololololol!" character. But maybe I'm not qualified to post on this subject.

JerulEon10/31/2016, 11:08:58 PM1 votes

Ghostblade is ok to rush first item, but honestly the crit build is better BF > Runaans > IE. I've played both builds a lot, and it's just better in general so not a big deal. I do agree that the Q changes will hurt his laning since it's his one escape tool and his late game teamfighting. The camouflage looks like it'll benefit jungle Twitch a lot more. But at least we got buffs to his W.

Danjeng11/1/2016, 3:03:18 AM1 votes

Hey they got his Pray and Spray back finally. I think Riot's on a streak with recent changes. Just wait and see first.

Boulderox11/1/2016, 3:07:38 AM1 votes

the thing i have gotten from these changes is he may be a better jungler now than ever, he is already viable, but i have not tested him either but here is something https://youtu.be/mR2Sr-yN3kI current jg monster change was after this video, but take it with a grain of salt

IceKingChernobog11/1/2016, 8:34:23 AM1 votes

These changes might shove him from adc and turn him into a jungler, though out of all the changes i think the camouflage change might hurt him the most. But so far he might turn into another graves

hhaavviikk11/1/2016, 3:45:48 PM1 votes

I don't ever play twitch, i nfact I hate seeing him on the enemy team because he ussually pentakill, but a detection radius seems like a terrible idea, hope riot doesn't go through with it

the weeaboo11/1/2016, 7:34:31 PM1 votes

Yep I too main the Rat. And the Rat is in the dumpster I suppose, just like a real rat. I've also made numerous posts about this.

  • Fervor trash on him now since he only has one AD scaling ratio.
  • Can't juke/escape with Q
  • Can't reposition to ult from the right spot
  • Core item got dumpster'd (YGB)
  • Q attack speed barely noticeable now
  • Other ADCs with movement speed or dashes can easily get out of Q with only one stack

I've had several ideas for a rework or changes to his abilities to make him more unique and viable

  • Ult is AD multiplier scaling on AD (1% per 10 AD or something, do the math it's not as OP as it sounds
  • W has an anti-dash mechanic like Miasma
  • Q sets up a 'Sewer System' in an area. This would set up specific paths that would make Twitch invisible when he walks on them - with a slight delay of course. He could set up maybe 3 of these at a time. That way he retains the stealth mechanic, but it's limited to a certain area so he has to think of where to place them strategically. It could be used to reposition before a fight, or to juke out opponents, but it would give enemies an idea of where he COULD be without completely catching them off guard. Also good for mind games

I'm particularly proud of this Sewer System idea both from a gameplay and concept perspective. It would also add something to Twitch unlike any other ADC, or anyone in the game for that matter. Twitch ATM has one of the most 'bland' kits, lacking a real identity other than 'poison'.

As for what I plan to build on him in the future:

BF Sword > PD > I.E. > BORK. Maybe Hurricane instead of PD, then PD later. I'll also probably be taking Deathfire instead of Fervor since it synergizes well with his passive.

Blitztomate11/1/2016, 8:43:22 PM1 votes

Just wanted to express that I feel exactly like Maddey about the Changes and wanted to support his statement here. Twitch is my favourite Champ and this Change would change how to play him in teamfights and what I love about playing him

Vojt11/2/2016, 3:50:01 AM1 votes

I'm surprised his detection radius doesn't scale down from 500 to 250 as Twitch levels up; his has always been a late game carry.

As for his Q reset being quite poor, it could grant brief invisibility and a stronger burst of movement speed for a few seconds after scoring a kill or an assist with his passive active on a target.