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WW Nerfs Are Wrong

wobarific··21 votes·8,404 views

WW's Q isn't the problem. It doesn't even really matter. I realize he's not OP and he probably sucks in competitive but for SQ it's just his gank pressure early with his W passive. Q shouldn't even be touched. It just nerfs his late game even more for no reason. Just nerf W early or maybe his AS from W early so he can't gank as fast. He can even be better late game to compensate because that's not the problem at all. And yes, I realize that he's more of an issue for NA players than KR. We don't seem to respect jungler presence very much. Snowballed WW is very hard to stop though since he also becomes tanky and heals a lot.

23 Comments

MorganFreemanBot23 votes

"This champion should be nerfed because NA players are lazy and don't respect jungler gank power."

???????????????????????

ForFoxSakes3 votes

most dont even know that just hitting WW will take away his bonus move speed, yet will continue to try to run or flash away to get chomped in the back and die. It's totally just more NA circlejerk cryfest

Step Sis Lux7 votes

Just nerf his speed and healing from aa

wobarific9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Step Sis Lux,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExxivyaW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-23T20:53:35.578+0000)

Just nerf his speed and healing from aa

The healing is necessary for him to be WW and a great duelist. You can't have a single target champ like him and not have him be a dueling god. He'd be useless.

Step Sis Lux7 votes

right now he can 1vs2 on 3 lvl and its to much

MorganFreemanBot13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Step Sis Lux,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExxivyaW,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-23T21:36:14.519+0000)

right now he can 1vs2 on 3 lvl and its to much

If targets are low health, yeah.

Several champions fulfill the niche of 'low health = more dangerous", but WW specifically is the low health dueling expert. His 'ideal' scenario is himself at low health, enemy targets at low health, and no CC or lockdown. That's what he's great at. That's what he's designed to shine in. He's meant to track down, chase, and easily kill low health targets.

If you 2v1 WW, and you don't let him get you low, he's an absolute joke. If you 2v1 WW, and CC him when he's low (and you are too) to prevent his healing, he's an absolute joke. IF you 2v1 WW, are low health, and don't CC him, you are going to have a bad day and that is intentional.

Power Cosmic2 votes

Along with that he also has a strong lockdown, shield, cc, sustain, damage, strong on objectives... In MOBAs a good champ can't do everything, and if they do; they sacrifice doing damage. Conversely if you have a lot of damage it wouldn't make much sense to also be a cc bot, with escapes and tank. Take fighter Diana... what does she get in trade for not being able to do what WW can? The answer should be significantly more late game damage, to carry through an oppressive utility champ. Oppressive utility champs like WW should not be doing that much damage (or dueling) bc they are doing everything else. Cheers, we are all entitled to our own ideas

BBW Chaser7 votes

That what i say Riot right now making WW even more useless late game..

Nerfing his Q so much and his base AD would only make him useless while are not addresing the problem

But that riot for you...btw i love how WW gets nerfed while kaisa 56% win ratio with 21% pick ratio remain untouched...

Danjeng3 votes

What? The 5% AD ratio nerf was such a massive nerf. A gutting really. Olaf'd one might say.

It hit Kai'Sa almost as hard as the terrible nerfs on Janna, -5 MS and -5 damage on one of her abilities. I would even go as far as to say it might be on par with the devastating -3 AD nerf on Vayne a while back. Truly horrific nerfs.

CaptainChinstrap5 votes

Warwick is beyond broken... hands down THE BEST jungler for all levels of solo que under challenger. He does everything and does everything well, fastest mobility, high damage, tanky as fuck, plenty of CC, and retard proof. He needs to be reverted at this point.

notice me Sin pi7 votes

{quoted}

retard proof. He needs to be reverted at this point.

what?? pre-rework WW is even more retard proof tho, with his press-R-to-win kit

OHminus2 votes

Pre-rework WW was just useless unless there was some item like Feral Flare that let him farm the jungle and become a god late.

Power Cosmic1 votes

But that was pretty much all he could do besides objectives. Captain is right he now does it all, and still has good damage.

Kirn4 votes

All that needs to happen at best is a powershift on Warwick.

Jolly Rogered3 votes

Once Warwick is nerfed Riot will more than likely not fix any of his bugs and this champ has some really bad bugs. The ones I constantly run into pertain to his W and R.

CytheGuy2 votes

WW is a pretty balanced champ in most people's opinions, there was a good circlejerk a while back on these Boards where people used WW as a soap box for showing what a balanced champ looks like. The big issue with him is that he is designed to be a good ganker, but when jungle meta revolves entirely around ganking, then he becomes an annoyingly good pick that's overly effective at deciding games. To "fix" him the meta is going to need fixing. What Riot is saying, intentionally or not, is either "We're keeping this meta" or "We have no idea what direction we're going in so we're gonna just live in the moment." The latter is a terrible choice for game-design on a game that's based off of constant updates to how the game works/plays if you couldn't tell.

General Theritt2 votes

{quoted}

WW is a pretty balanced champ in most people's opinions, there was a good circlejerk a while back on these Boards where people used WW as a soap box for showing what a balanced champ looks like. The big issue with him is that he is designed to be a good ganker, but when jungle meta revolves entirely around ganking, then he becomes an annoyingly good pick that's overly effective at deciding games. To "fix" him the meta is going to need fixing. What Riot is saying, intentionally or not, is either "We're keeping this meta" or "We have no idea what direction we're going in so we're gonna just live in the moment." The latter is a terrible choice for game-design on a game that's based off of constant updates to how the game works/plays if you couldn't tell.

Warwick isn't overly effective. Outside of his own ultimate, and a gimmicky Q+E fear backwards combo, Warwick doesn't really "provide" for his team. Yes, he can snowball early ganks, those are usually when he can guarantee his allies can gain enough early pressure themselves to activate his passive effects. He's very much reliant on the opponent being stupid, and his abilities give plenty of interaction. Flash as he rushes to Q you under your tower to position him into firing range, or bait out his ultimate and force a bad play where warwick wastes time chasing you around. The only reason he's even considered good right now is because damage is so ridiculously high, and even then he doesn't even have that much damage to begin with since most of his damage is lowered to compensate for the large amount of healing and damage he is purposely meant to sustain.

also, the large problem is that his AD ratios aren't even that boastful, since he's so reliant on autoattacking point blank, and his abilities outside of Q are most utility focused or meant as a control move. if you're a squishy, buy a tabi. Laugh. If you're tank, buy a thornmail/bramblevest, and laugh. Warwick's damage isn't the thing to touch, if they wanted to nerf his early gank, drop his early speed as warwick isn't focused on early game in the first place, but his ability to gank is just good when people get chunked, and this meta defines ridiculous damage. The second it comes down, warwick will still probably be fine. Warwick just is that balanced, he has fair interactions and plays off an opponent's overconfidence.

CytheGuy1 votes

The one thing you never mentioned was his ability to tank. His fear at max rank provides 55% damage reduction, and he is able to build more tanky while still being able to accomplish the "I do more damage when you are low" ideal with his passive and the fact that his Q at max rank does 10% max hp damage. In a general sense I would say that his AD ratios are fairly high, the thing is that he doesn't build that much AD to begin with, so they never come to assassin-level fruition in his most ideal builds. In a high damage meta, all it takes are a couple good pokes from a laner to set off his W passive, so I wouldn't entirely say he is reliant on opponents being stupid, but he is reliant on his team's ability to incorporate is semi-unique playstyle into their own plans. It's easy to tell him to gank you, all you have to do is put down some damage (which is fairly easy assuming you aren't laning against someone who is just better at poking than you are).

General Theritt1 votes

{quoted}

The one thing you never mentioned was his ability to tank. His fear at max rank provides 55% damage reduction, and he is able to build more tanky while still being able to accomplish the "I do more damage when you are low" ideal with his passive and the fact that his Q at max rank does 10% max hp damage. In a general sense I would say that his AD ratios are fairly high, the thing is that he doesn't build that much AD to begin with, so they never come to assassin-level fruition in his most ideal builds. In a high damage meta, all it takes are a couple good pokes from a laner to set off his W passive, so I wouldn't entirely say he is reliant on opponents being stupid, but he is reliant on his team's ability to incorporate is semi-unique playstyle into their own plans. It's easy to tell him to gank you, all you have to do is put down some damage (which is fairly easy assuming you aren't laning against someone who is just better at poking than you are).

So you just provided me my point. His AD ratios and damage overall isn't high (outside of his ult, which is on a pretty reasonable cooldown), and i did mention he's meant to sustain large amounts of damage, so that fits into his E. I pointed out, its not hard to deal damage in this meta, because its too easy to simply put out damage and ask warwick to gank, and a stupid player will over-estimate themselves and think "i'll be fine". Its not a bad thing to back when you're below 50% HP and reeling from a bad fight. Farm under tower to make sure it isn't pushed, and back as soon as you can. If they decide to drop their jungler on you, waste their team, force them to make bad dives that force them to back and lose the lane advantage they would've gained.

Like i said, the best nerf would've been to just lower his early W movement speed, and pretty much nothing to his damage. His one thing is that his major advantage is on low health targets, or his own low HP. If you're high HP and fight warwick, you will usually win the trade since warwick will not be able to come back from the sheer health loss without wasting his ult or using all his CC in one go. When you look at it, all that needs to go down is the actual damage and poke since warwick only deals so much damage once he can pounce in on a target, and if people aren't getting chunked constantly, warwick moves down and settles at his usual strong but fair winrate. Also, notice how even in competitive, warwick has been proven useful, but is actually rarely picked. there are just champions with better niches with much stronger gank power, Warwick is just more easily accessible by lower ranking players, which brings his winrate up, and to newer players he's a god-send of showing unique gameplay. Warwick doesn't really need to change, because before this meta, he wasn't even that dominant. Even now, he still isn't THAT dominant, he matches with a lot of other popular or regular pick junglers with a 5~% playrate, while Lee Sin is still sitting at 10%. Why isn't everyone playing the champion that apparently boasts a lower winrate, but has twice the playrate? Its because warwick is simple but effective, and incredibly balanced. He doesn't have anything pushing him over the edge besides his unqiue gank pressure.

Teémò1 votes

Hopefully they can fix some bug with it Like spamming Q, but nothing happens. Or When his Q randomly does double damage Which make or breaks fights.

Tundra Hunter1 votes

As a Warwick one trick since season 4, I agree. This nerf to q is so stupid. I want a ww nerf, as a ww main, I want him to be less banned and picked. And I want him more healthy for the game. Nerf his early, buff his late, please... it's so obvious. ..

Blåbæret1 votes

The problem with WW is that you can't really kill him. Nerf his healing into the ground and he might be balanced. Would also help if he didn't turn into an assassin with only Tiamat built.

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