How to fix the Support item issues

Arenvalde·5/5/2015, 6:26:49 AM·89 votes·7,100 views

Step 1: Create 4 tier 2 sightstone items, like this:

http://i.imgur.com/Nml7X4A.png http://i.imgur.com/QXc3e4t.png http://i.imgur.com/7J0bqjm.png http://i.imgur.com/pEYaCrf.png

Step 2: Have sightstone build into an enchant on the support gold items instead of using questionable choices like or

http://i.imgur.com/z4q7T5E.png

And voila, supports get their choice of TWELVE (3 items x 4 enchants) core items! They get to start customizing their build path, not just after gp10 item, sightstone, and boots, but they get to customize their build before they even get sightstone!

Hell, you could even let jungle items or tier 2 items like , , and upgrade with sight enchants and let everyone play the vision game, which was the main reason for introducing trinkets and sightstone in the first place, wasn't it?

63 Comments

50000000000000005/5/2015, 7:25:44 AM21 votes

This would mean that the active from the support item will be removed. It will either become an aura or moved to another item. I'm okay with that. I also really like the enchantment idea.

I have a concern regarding cost efficiency, though.

item 1028 + item 1006 = 580g (220g more for 800g) item 1027 + item 1004 = 580g (220g more for 800g) item 1052 + = 615g (205g more for 800g) item 1036 + item 1051 = 720g (80g more for 800g)

This means that if the sightstone cost is still at 800g, the ward passive will be really cheap. It's currently 400g (which I find reasonable, as it breaks even at placing 6 wards), but it can become as low as 80g (which breaks even at 2 wards). A way to mitigate this will be raising the price of sightstone. If we maintain the passive cost efficiency as 400g, then the most expensive sightstone (the AD option) will be 1120g. This is pretty difficult to purchase. I think maintaining the recipe as item+(about 400 gold)=sightstone is a good idea. My suggestion therefore is

item 1028 + 400g = Sightstone (+150 Health) item 1027 + 400g = Sightstone (+200 Mana) item 1036 + 440g = Sightstone (+10 AD) item 1052 + 365g = Sightstone (+20 AP)

They are all 800g in total. I don't think adding mana regen is necessary because you can get it from gp10 item.

Old Man Teeto5/5/2015, 9:55:37 AM8 votes

Well, technically I'm not against combining Sightstone into the gold gen items. It's an interesting idea, junglers are less able to buy sightstone then also, meaning more tactical warding rather than mass warding. However, this is a bit more complicated than anything else they've done.

I'd still prefer if they just created a "two slot" system for trinkets.

Slot 1) Vision slot - choice between a warding trinket, or a scrying trinket Slot 2) Vision Denial slot - Choice between a Scanner, and a pink ward trinket.

Remove store bought wards. Forces every member to play in both parts of the vision war the entire game, and doesn't put an economic cost to warding/dewarding.

They could even expand on this with Slot 1 having that Mandrake ward which has been sporadically tested, and short duration Oracles for slot 2.

Rebel Xayah5/5/2015, 6:42:06 AM6 votes

This actually does sound fun. I sure would enjoy not needing sightstone to fill a whole spot.

delonix5/5/2015, 12:23:21 PM3 votes

The problem with adopting the jungle item "enchant" system for sightstones is that it would probably copy the problems of the system as well. The jungle is currently being dominated by cinderhulk junglers, with cinderhulk being so strong it's showing up in top lane. When cinderhulk was juggernaut, the warrior enchant was dominating the jungle, with vi and lee sin being a step ahead of the other junglers at all stages of the game. Devourer is okay on some junglers, but clearly suboptimal, and poachers seems to only work on Nunu.

Right now the support meta picks are determined by who can bring the most utility for the adc. If the sightstone system is changed to an enchant system, it could artificially shift the meta in the same way the jungle items have. Probably one enchant would be completely useless, except maybe on one champ. One enchant would be mediocre. One enchant would be decent, and the last enchant would be the meta enchant that everyone feels is the strongest. Champs who use the strongest enchant well would become significantly stronger while champs who don't would become weaker.

For example, two of your new proposed sightstones have mana regen (one with mana, one with ap). This means that mage supports like morgana and annie start building their ap items sooner (assuming no changes to upgraded sightstone costs, gp10 item costs, and a small combine cost, like the jungle items) and they get to have an extra ap item (cough mejais cough). Sure, leona and thresh get to build another tank item, but mage supports would be able to snowball their leads without having to sacrifice warding by opting for the "no sightstone, upgraded yellow trinket" route. We might see zyra and even brand or ryze come to bot lane, until riot decides they need to make adjustments and buffs the health enchant, resulting in a tank support meta where mage supports are practically useless, or at least starting from behind.

Zavern5/5/2015, 7:02:59 AM3 votes

The Sightstone and a GP/5 item to make a new item sounds absolutely amazing.

BorfinUrfdob5/5/2015, 12:32:09 PM3 votes

That's not a problem with the enchant system, that's a problem with an item of the enchant variety being too powerful and attractive.

Putting them on gold items is a huge disincentive to using them in conventional builds alone, making it that much easier to balance.

OmniMoto5/5/2015, 5:24:36 PM3 votes

I say, so that junglers can still buy sightstone, one of the enchants increases your ward cap limit by one, maybe 2, not sure, but it still holds 5 wards like ruby sightstone, you can place 4 stealth wards now as opposed to 3

DeusVult5/5/2015, 8:55:45 PM3 votes

EVERYONE CAN ALREADY PLAY THE VISION GAME

item 3361 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250 Costs 250

CoolKnightST5/5/2015, 7:49:47 PM2 votes

I see one problem with this item:

Midlane Mages will get it for mana regen (the yellow one). They can now ward both sides en the entire midlane meta will involve arround this.

The only issue you solve is for the junglers. Now everyone can use it. But if I have to guess the meta will still shift in fighter jungler because they will still be able to get the most out the sightstone. They only scenario you create will be that now 3 roles will use the sightstone. It will just become to snowbally.

winnie de pooh5/5/2015, 6:55:46 AM2 votes

This would change sightstone in an all role pick. If you would make this change not only the suport would pick it up also the other players would go for it. (If you are smart ofc) I think this would change the support role way to much i'm not a fan of this idea. It's just much more fun that you have to keep buying wards as a top or mid laner while you have to make a choice to go for the items or a ward :)

Sonatria5/5/2015, 6:56:02 AM2 votes

This would be excellent because frankly, upgrades to items are 1) cool 2) space efficient 3) makes sense as a high tier item...I would love to have 6 spots for items...and get to keep sight stone and Gold gen item.

Solidair35/5/2015, 1:44:46 PM2 votes

Uh. How would I ward and how would I cast the FQC active?

TonyTonyMordecai5/5/2015, 3:21:04 PM2 votes

You sir... . . . . . Have found the answer... You are a genius

Mandang05/5/2015, 3:54:11 PM2 votes

Couple of problems with this.

Sightstone will get abused by other lanes, once again ruining something good support had going for it (heart of gold where?)
Support still doesn't have meaningful item choices, it's just 'which sightstone' to add to 'which gp10'. The bigger problem is that once you get those, you run out of cheap support-friendly items.
Your build is now even less flexible as you'll have to upgrade your sightstone rather than saving toward an expensive support-friendly item followup.

Nauthes5/5/2015, 9:55:43 PM2 votes

That is a beautiful post and should have more upvotes. I applaud you sir This is a great way to fix the issue

Hakkuza5/6/2015, 3:08:11 AM2 votes

How about instead of combining with the support item, it combines with warmogs? This way you can still get the active of the item and the sightstone, while keeping sightstone slot efficient for lategame. Call it wardmogs, i'm not sure about the different flavors of sightstone and how they would mesh with it though. Also I propose that after level 16 you have the option of combining your trinket with an item. Wardmogs would combine with the upgraded yellow trinket and go on your trinket slot, guardian's angel would combine with the farsight orb (godian's angel) and boost the range of the active to global, while the sweeper would combine with jungle/support items. Was thinking of finding a way to combine the sweeper with support items, such as activating only when standing still for 5 seconds but idk a good way to get this to work. I believe warmogs and guardian angel are good items to combine with trinkets because health and resistances are beneficial to every champ.

BluBreeze5/6/2015, 4:34:49 AM2 votes

yes please! I like this idea!

ArtMurder5/6/2015, 1:46:56 AM1 votes

I would also really like to see item 3303 and the other support items give more gold. Only the tank sup item gives full minion gold while the others give 1 and 5. What's the deal man why do i have to be punished with no gold in lane for wanting to play a squishy support?

Hellpyre5/6/2015, 1:57:39 AM1 votes

Give me no ward cap again and I'll be happy with boots and Sightstone. :/

PokladnicaZla5/6/2015, 1:16:05 PM1 votes

Am I the only one against an AD-support item?

BluBreeze5/6/2015, 4:34:29 AM1 votes

yes please! I like this idea!

VeryGreen5/7/2015, 6:34:08 AM1 votes

This is actually an idea ive been thinking about lately. But riot wont do it because they didnt think of it first.

Hobbsgoblin5/6/2015, 9:50:11 AM1 votes

How about this: None of this applies to avarice blade GP10s must be bought within the first 3 minutes of game time All GP10s have "Unique Passive: At level 5 you gain an additional free trinket that may be upgraded"

The free trinket acts as follows

Level 5- Stealth Ward 2 charges, wards last 60 seconds. Limit 3 Stealth Wards on the map per player. level 9- Stealth Ward 3 charges wards last 120 seconds. Limit 3 Stealth Wards on the map per player. Paid upgrade requires Level 9- Stealth Ward 4 Charges, lasts 180 seconds. Limit 3 Stealth Wards on the map per player. Paid upgrade requiring level 14- Stealth Ward 5 Charges, Lasts 180 seconds. Increases your stealth ward limit by 1.

Other lanes would have to start with and keep a GP10 to have it, so I don't think its terribly exploitable by them. Unlike many suggestions here including the OP it will not interfere with the actives on the final GP10 items. Everyone in the game, including the support, can keep their normal trinkets we already have, so sweeper lens and blah blah blah. Pretty much a sight stone but you trade off the health for having an open item slot and slightly more utility from the ward without breaking the game.

5512025/5/2015, 10:09:53 PM1 votes

So that new item build from item 3098 & item 2045 ----> item 3092 will have 2 actives?

41noob5/5/2015, 11:13:05 PM1 votes

what support item issue? sight stone is super strong on its own, it really doesn't need buffs.