Why the players of League are most notably upset at the developers

Fedoran··75 votes·9,978 views

Hey there, I decided to make this thread as an explanation (in my opinion) as to why players are so upset right now, and even going to the lengths of calling on the firing of developers (not just Certainlyt, but in general)

The whole fiasco has very deep roots through the past few years, likely dating back to Season 5. "Power Creep" and "Mobility Creep" are common terms thrown out by players in frustration, and understandably so. I like to compare this creep to that of slowly heating up the water in a shower, bath, etc. It changes so slowly that you don't notice it at all until you look back (or change it back) to what it was a good while ago. Players looking back see that over time the game has added so much power creep that we have the mess we see today.

The blame cast on the developers isn't just the blind rage you see in soloq, there has been a lot of constructive criticism for awhile now.

The first big upset to the community was the midseason patch for S7, including big updates to some tanks. Riot had their heart in the right place and noticeably put effort into the redesigns, however in many peoples' view, it was a flop. This can be blamed on the toxic jungle meta that spawned from it. When this occurred, it was a hot topic for discussion. People spouted the ugly term "Tank Meta" about for a good while (which I will probably cover in a whole separate post) and actively suggested solutions to the problem. Some good, some bad. Some wanted reverts, others wanted numbers tweaks, and few even suggested another update. At this point NOT many people were very upset at the developers at all, especially since the start of season 7, after the fixes to adc (and killing our meme), was quite smooth. The real screwup was when Riot actively IGNORED or REFUSED all of the criticism it took from the players.

The next big thing in season 7 would have to be the ardent meta. I myself blame this meta (as a mid lane mage main) for screwing with my ranked matches, seeing as my climb from Silver V to Gold IV, which took place in a matter of weeks, abruptly stopped and I simply couldn't win anymore without a good bot lane. The winrate on my main, Veigar, dropped from a whopping 74% to 66% by the end of the season (and that is over around 70 games of veigar in S7), and winrate overall dropped from around 65% to 56%. This thing made A LOT of people angry. Not because of the actual ardent meta existing in the first place, but because it wasn't fixed at all until about 2 patches before preseason. Riot abused the "muh worlds" excuse way too much and we had pretty much the latter half of the summer and early fall in absolute misery. Standalone this isn't a real killer to the community, but factoring in the tank jungle meta before, and what happened after, it really is.

You see, the reason people kept playing during the ardent meta was because of one promise from the developers: "Preseason will fix most of the problems with the game." When preseason came around, the players were excited to change from the trash meta they had before. Players saw a transition from a teamfight where the adc can literally tank your whole team from all the heals/shields/peel they get, to now absolute kill lanes and players being wiped in seconds. Theoretically, this would be nice, but it wasn't. This is because the added damage was not properly set up by any other balance changes. Think about it. Did mages and assassins become super viable again like previous seasons, or instead did ADCs start picking up full damage + crit and start outputting Burst Per Second that could wipe everyone 1v5? Did the high amount kills around other ever-present gold income from previous metas, like first turret gold, make games way more snowbally? It sure did.

At this point the players' tempers were stretched thin. This was a problem and we looked upon one last promise from Riot: "Preseason may be unbalanced so we will try to fix it." Patch 7.24b was an INCREDIBLE let down. Riot promised changes to top lane, which they did test extensively in the PBE, but ended up just rolling them back. While this in itself isn't a bad move, Riot neglected to replace those changes before the patch dropped. Players now had to endure for the holidays (one of the best times for gaming) with a terribly unbalanced game while Rioters were not even working.

That was the last straw. The entire time players had been offering good ideas and constructive criticism. There are still a plethora of threads, articles, and videos about how the game could be improved, but Riot never listened. On top of that, they actively failed to follow through with their promises of actual game balance, all the while CertainlyT would develop a second Yasuo.

This is the point where players start calling for the balance team to be fired. I agree, this is absolutely unacceptable, and is the first time since midseason 6 that I am actively trying to avoid playing league, even in the holiday season. We, the players have gone through a hell of a terrible ride over the past 5 months or so, and honestly have all rights to start calling out the team for their blatant neglect.

TLDR: Riot hasn't listened to the playerbase over a multitude of patches spanning about 5 months. While their fuckups in balance weren't that bad, the fact that they didn't fix them at all, or until much later, made people upset enough to call on the firing of the balance team.

118 Comments

Laura ß42 votes

Season 7 worlds item 3504 meta

I wonder what face the balance team did everytime the saw Janna fully shield and healKogMaw to near invinsivility

And they want us not to rage lol this people in riot have their egos too high

GayFluffyUnicorn31 votes

The ego really is a problem sometimes. Think about playtest team telling us galio Q oneshotting people was thorougly tested in a "highly" competitive environment and is fine.

Theorex2 votes

I forgot that they were a team.

What are THEY doing.

Holy shit. Now I have two teams I am allowed to bag on.

Bronze-Diamond Players on the playtest team.

Rito needs to implement a community thing here.

T4underbolt19 votes

Diamonds? Check their accounts very carefully and you will see that they were abusing picks that were going to be broke to go freelo and most of them are hard stuck d5. They were the one testing changes for champs so they knew beforhand which of them are going to be broken and let them go life like that to go freelo. Its just sad.

Thilmer15 votes

{quoted}

Diamonds? Check their accounts very carefully and you will see that they were abusing picks that were going to be broke to go freelo and most of them are hard stuck d5. They were the one testing changes for champs so they knew beforhand which of them are going to be broken and let them go life like that to go freelo. Its just sad.

That is something that made me really suspicious.

I remember when Riot showed the accounts of the balance team to probe they are high elo. By looking at them a few seconds, you instantly notice that they were using broken champs (that they made broken because they are the balance team), and most of them main ADC (what a coincidence that ADCs have been broken for more tan a season), and a great total of 0 members of the balance team main mages (notice how the mages ítems are always worst that the ADC ítems, and the awesome "mages update" even nerfed some mages).

At this point I don't trust the balance team at all, really.

Riotplaytestpenguin16 votes

This is an interesting philosophical question that comes up all the time when I'm ingame and subjected to some unsavory comments about champion picks. As a member of the playtest team, I should be playing what's meta in my opinion. If I have to work on a champion ticket or another balance change, I'd rather be informed than go in dry. What's meta these days is often strongest (or close to it), as LoL is in a spot now where looking at amazing community-driven websites allows people to figure out what's OP quite quickly. Do I enjoy playing Malzahar? Hell no (personally I get bored of him easily). But, if we were to nerf him at some point, I would like to be able to contribute towards Live Gameplay's understanding of what they could change with his tuning, and that's done best by a combination of both playing the character and doing my own research/numbers sweeps.

AMYS GRAVE14 votes

As a member of the playtest team, I should be playing what's meta in my opinion.

That's the philosophy that is leaving underplayed champions in the dust. You focus on the META champions and ignore long forgotten champions which might counter those picks in the first place. Some of the underplayed champions might be a safety valve against the META champions becoming overbearing if they were given some love. Also playing champions who are countered by the META champion might give the insight necessary to distinguish when and why the META champion is overbearing in their matchups while giving greater insights into the game as a whole instead of just on the individual champion.

Maybe the playtesters should try for a variety of experiences to get insights from different angles instead of spamming a small handful of the strong champions limiting their ability to comment on the game as a whole. Just a dissenting opinion though.

Riotplaytestpenguin12 votes

Maybe the playtesters should try for a variety of experiences to get insights from different angles instead of spamming a small handful of the strong champions limiting their ability to comment on the game as a whole. Just a dissenting opinion though.

We generally have pretty good coverage on champions in terms of understanding them. Most players on my team have played the game in high elo for a loooong time (I've played since January of 2010). That said, there is a certain amount of game knowledge filtering that good players will do to avoid wasting time. I don't think playing 10 Volibear/nunu games is necessary to determine that they're not hidden counters to Malzahar.

The Yetii Rider5 votes

Even so, 10 Nunu games a day keeps a smile on your face. [zombie-nunu-hearts]

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

:) relevant username

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

I don't think playing 10 Volibear/nunu games is necessary to determine that they're not hidden counters to Malzahar.

Of course not, playing 10 games of all 139 champions is unreasonable, and its also not what i said.

As a member of the playtest team, I should be playing what's meta in my opinion.

I just mean that there needs to be a balance of what is played, instead of focusing on what is meta as you suggest. If balance and playtesting was focused not on rotating the meta of what is currently strong, but on a vision of what a balanced game would look like i think we would all be in a better spot.

If Malz is over-performing (to piggyback off your example) questions need to be asked about why his counters aren't able to do their jobs against him. Maybe Malz is just plain too strong, maybe his kit is covering his own weaknesses too well, maybe his counters are just too weak overall, or maybe his counters strengths are being mitigated in unintended ways that have nothing to do with Malz. Like, maybe his counters (Swain, Karthus, Anivia), Gangplank, Syndra, Galio, to list counters that i can source for credibility...) are mostly late game scaling champions in a fast meta, and game pacing issues are the underlying reason for Malz's strength. That's the kind of insight that you probably won't get by spamming Malz.

EDIT: -----

Also on the flip side Malz counters early game snowballing champions that are popular in the fast meta and so they can not snowball against him because they are countered, while also not being able to transition into the mid/late game because they were unable to get the lead that their champion needs to function. Some of that is just how his counter matchups work, but shorter games mean there is less time for those early game champions to find ways to eek out an advantage somewhere other than early lane.

Malz just happens to serve as a microcosm of why game pacing is a problem right now, and similar strengths and weaknesses continue to pop up through the game in other lanes as well. We are seemingly left with a choice between homogenizing power curves of champions somewhat to compensate for shortening game lengths, increasing game lengths back to what they were a few years ago, or leaving these problems to continue cropping up. In any case, Happy New Year, and Cheers Mate!

Riotplaytestpenguin7 votes

i didn't mean to assume you meant spam every character, was just using that as an example of why stressing off-meta characters isn't always the go-to strategy as it is both time consuming and often not worth it.

Agreed with a few of your points on Malzahar benefitting from current game pacing; most of his opponents are not champions that feel confidently powerful rushing QSS and most champions that do (Ryze/Cassio) are weak for the majority of the playerbase.

Disagree that those champions are counters to a properly played malzahar though, but it was a worthy observation to say that looking into counters and meta-state are key to proper analysis -- but Malzahar was also one of the highest WR mid champions prior to preseason and ever since we made his most recent changes. Personally, I believe him to just be overtuned on the cooldown front -- his ultimate CD/Q CD in particular make me scratch my head.

Cool post and analysis about the meta, though. Happy new year to you as well!

AMYS GRAVE3 votes

There is precedent for this kind of meta btw. This effect was also seen with Kogmaw preseason 6. They reworked kog focusing on his late game hyper scaling while heavily nerfing his base stats the same patch keystone masteries were released. The keystones caused a fast meta and subsequently made Kog hard to balance in that environment eventually forcing a revert of the rework instead of addressing the underlying game pacing that caused him to be unbalanceable. It's not really a surprise that it is happening now as keystones have again warped the pacing of the game. Another current example is toplane fighters, most of which scale quite well and aren't able to make it to the phases of the game where they shine.

Also those malz counters were mostly pulled from the analysis sites based off winrates, but if i had to make arguments for a few of them: Swain ulti sustains through malz ulti so he doesn't die to malz all in while one bird pings off the malz passive shield Karthus q pings off the passive shield and his e continues to damage while suppressed (unless that interaction has been changed, haven't seen it in a while what with karthus's play rate and all) GP q can ping off passive shield and oranges make him k

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Something i'd actually like to know to get behind what is happening behind the scenes if you don't mind: Does the balance team just do their thing and you then have to find out if these changes were good, healthy whatever or do you go to the balance team and say: yo i've played some X would be nice if you could do Y or Z to X because of A and B reason? Or is it some inbetween?

Riotplaytestpenguin12 votes

It's closer to in between. Usually the TL;DR workflow (meaning there is much more but it's complex to describe all the various timings due to how our patch dev cycle works) is:

  1. Live Gameplay has their sprint planning, which is when they discuss as a team what they want to work on (this can be underplayed characters, OP characters, whatever!)
  2. Live Gameplay may or may not sync up with the playtesters for whatever respective character they're working on BEFORE THEY ITERATE. This is usually pretty casual and could be summed up with something like: "Hey, what things stick out to you when you're playing this character?". Playtesters generally get assigned characters that they've played a lot or are within their realm of expertise (I mostly playtest mid or bot lane stuff for example).
  3. Live Gameplay iterates and implements a changelist
  4. Playtest reads the list, playtests it, and gives feedback. This step can take a while depending on whether or not we feel we got enough insight from our playtests. Being overconfident based on likely-too-small samples is where our team has made mistakes in the past
  5. Live Gameplay decides whether they want to adjust or continue with current list, and the cycle repeats.

Hopefully that's enough insight to be interesting to you

Nefas5 votes

And how much does that approach lead to bias towards the default? Out of sight, out of mind for the non-meta, less popular champs.

Riotplaytestpenguin12 votes

Live Gameplay generally spearheads the approach to working on underutilized/underpicked champions. If we have tickets upcoming for underplayed champions, the first thing my team does is assign someone to start spamming games on it to understand the character. I'm just saying that balance team members playing OP stuff in solo queue is not some conspiracy to gain elo -- it's often to understand the champion for further work.

ªTeemo6 votes

{quoted}

Season 7 worlds item 3504 meta

I wonder what face the balance team did everytime the saw Janna fully shield and healKogMaw to near invinsivility

And they want us not to rage lol this people in riot have their egos too high

They probably smiled...2 of the guys in the balance team were ardent abusers

Sire Hippington25 votes

Actually, the first really big upset was preseason 6(starting patch 5.22) gold flow changes, deathtimer changes, tower changes, ADC-update with tons of crit and shit on everything, intruduction of keystones adding far more power to masteries than befor... 5.22 was the first time it wasn't XY-creep, but a clearly visible jump in terms of damage and snowballing...

The game was in a bad state since 5.22, and instead of fixing anything, they just managed to make things even worse till it reached the poor state we have now. I haven't played much lol in S6, and even less in S7, but i thought i give it a new try this season, seeing if it maybe just was me getting tiered and needing a break. However, after playing quite some in this preaseason, i can say that the game remains shity, summoners is hardly enjoyable at all, especially as solo player, and the only mode that i probably still would enjoy at the current state is dominion, but they removed that for some bullshit reason. it's sad to see what the game i once loved so much has become...

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

Yup, that ^

the weeaboo14 votes

Players: Towers die too quick!

Rito: Adds Rift Herald and Demolish


Players: There's too much damage!

Rito: Adds a new rune system that excluding one tree pretty much offers damage on every rune.


Players: IP grind for runes is too hard!

Rito: Makes RNG IP grinding instead, nullifies honor capsules and chests from S's.


Players: Games are too short!

Rito: Adds Triumph, Future's market, etc. to make games even more snowbally.


Players: We want reworks that just modernize the champ, not redesign them!

Rito: Evelynn Galio Urgot (don't get me wrong I love all these reworks, but I would be very mad if I mained one of them before the rework)

Karunamon2 votes

I think that last thing is gonna be true during any VGU no matter how awesome it is. The old champion effectively ceases to exist and a new one is put in their place with a similar look and mechanics.

Pour one out for the pre-rework Poppy mains. Both of them.

Kyunsei13 votes

Basically for me :

  • Wait for X time, it's worlds,
  • then wait for X time, it's before pre-season,
  • then now it's wait for X time, it's holidays and pre-season. When can we balance the game out ?
AirKingNeo12 votes

I think you forgot when Riot ignored all criticism from Season 6, which is why Bruisers had no item for a patch after they removed Rageblade and already took Trinity away in the season update.

Karunamon9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fedora Noodle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmpRq18B,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-02T17:07:50.352+0000) This is the point where players start calling for the balance team to be fired. I agree, this is absolutely unacceptable, and is the first time since midseason 6 that I am actively trying to avoid playing league, even in the holiday season. We, the players have gone through a hell of a terrible ride over the past 5 months or so, and honestly have all rights to start calling out the team for their blatant neglect.

TLDR: Riot hasn't listened to the playerbase over a multitude of patches spanning about 5 months. While their fuckups in balance weren't that bad, the fact that they didn't fix them at all, or until much later, made people upset enough to call on the firing of the balance team.

Well, that, and the fact that they don't even respond. A quick look at the red tracker shows a ton of activity in the story&design, memes&games, and the tech support stuff, but getting a relevant Rioter to respond to even good-faith questioning, let alone criticism of game balance is like trying to pull teeth catch an oiled-up Teemo with an active W and a full inventory of item 3285 while high on his mushrooms (read: nontrivial).

I'm over the excuses. Boards are too mean, boards are not constructive (we'll just ignore the multiple well-articulated threads posted over the last few months...) surely it can't be that they just suck at taking anything other than full-throated praise?

If I sound upset, well, what do you expect? Make changes that cause everywhere people can share their opinion seem to be negative on and say nothing about it for months on end?

GayFluffyUnicorn9 votes

Should really make riot wonder why the arts department, story etc. doesn't get shit on or as much flack as the balance team. You can't say much against them, they all do a pretty good job. Only complaint i have is the lack of skins for so many champs while shitting out skins every month for others.

Partholonian2 votes

Because nobody can think of a good way to blame their lost games on the art department.

There are always players convinced that the champions they play are too weak and the champions played against them are too strong and balance is awful, the worst it's ever been. And the balance team knows perfectly well that no matter what they do or don't do, there will always be people who hate them and want them to be fired.

That has got to be demoralizing in general, but ESPECIALLY when it comes to interacting with those people when it's not even your goddamn job to.

General Esdeath 4 votes

Yeah because Riven is too underpowered, I couldn't smash through the Janna shield for 800 damage and her ult healing Kog every second for 300 HP while he lifesteals for 100 per auto attack. Must be Riven.

This is how damage creep starts, ladies and gentlemen.

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

In case of riven i imagine: Alert Phase 1 in all of Riot HQ, Marc Merril comes in with his personal helicopter with Morello by his side explaining the situation. Together they walk down the hallway, Rioters left and right sitting at their desks whimpering and crying like babies. Pure anarchy. At the end of the hallway they see it, a simple door with "Live Design" written on it in a bloody red. They enter, all they see is a big screen with meddler sitting in front of it, not even noticing the two. Merril looks at the screen, then looks to Morello "What do these numbers mean?!" he asks calmly. Morello shakes his head as he has no idea. Meddler doesn't answer at all until Merril grabs Meddler by the neck screaming at him asking the same question again. As if it was his last breath Meddler answers: R...R..Riven...she... she isn't top tier anymore.... Merrils eyes turn into a glowing red: "How could this happen!?" he asks Meddler and Morello. Morello still shaking his head, Meddler explains that Rivens overall winrate dropped from 51% to 50%. Asking for a solution Morello suggests to nerf Irelia and Merril, who was not pleased by the answer, executed Morello in front of Meddler with a headshot from his personal .357 Magnum. In fear of sharing Morellos fate Meddler suggests buffing up her dmg numbers like crazy, that always helps. Merill nods, giving his approval and thus Meddler buffed up her numbers. Half an hour later the alarm went silent and the monitor showed rivens global winrate back at 51% and then even rising to 52% winrate. Visibly satisfied Merril left the room with a simple "Good job" towards Meddler.

The end.

Divewing4 votes

I personally think this is the main issue.

People make posts all the time calling others out with stuff like; "we've been saying this since season 2", and yet it's never addressed

ReZisT Lust2 votes

teemos move quick is w & e is toxic shot, e is always active

Nea1049 votes

Matchmaking.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku8 votes

The next big thing in season 7 would have to be the ardent meta. I myself blame this meta (as a mid lane mage main) for screwing with my ranked matches, seeing as my climb from Silver V to Gold IV, which took place in a matter of weeks, abruptly stopped and I simply couldn't win anymore without a good bot lane. The winrate on my main, Veigar, dropped from a whopping 74% to 66% by the end of the season (and that is over around 70 games of veigar in S7), and winrate overall dropped from around 65% to 56%. This thing made A LOT of people angry. Not because of the actual ardent meta existing in the first place, but because it wasn't fixed at all until about 2 patches before preseason. Riot abused the "muh worlds" excuse way too much and we had pretty much the latter half of the summer and early fall in absolute misery. Standalone this isn't a real killer to the community, but factoring in the tank jungle meta before, and what happened after, it really is.

This is the only shit triggering me (this and Wukong rework always postponed). Ardent BS stayed too long.

Raiyza8 votes

The real problem is that they completely killed matchmaking.

This whole MMR thing is absolute horseshit. It should be gold 5s vs gold 5s. The best of them moves forward. Not Plat 5s or Silver 5 vs Gold5.

Sex Crazed Eve6 votes

You forgot to mention the item 3190 item 3107 item 3109 meta. That was a doozy.

Fedoran5 votes

Yet another part of a long list. I tend to group that with the ardent meta since it played out pretty much the same

Z3Sleeper6 votes

Literally nothing has changed since the beginning of this game in terms of how they go about fixing things that are broken.

Remember AP Yi? That abomination (my favorite champ) was allowed to live for TWO SEASONS. Remember Soraka mid cuz of click target Q and E? Several patches after being FotM as well. AP Tryndamere? Same deal. Irelia? Yep. Mordekaiser? Uhuh. Blade of the Ruined King? (original) Assassin Meta? Shyvanna Top being a thing for several seasons via relying on extremely overtuned damage? Feral Flare? Devourer? Literally Ezreal about 8 times throughout the years? Zilean mid with click target ranged metric burst? Nunu top the most oppressive and meta thing at some point? Azir forever? Hecarim top? Jug Update Garen (took a few patches til they finally gutted him again)? Tank Kat x4-ish? Tank Fizz? Tank Ekko? Lulu top? Yasuo forever? Syndra's obnoxiously large stun hitbox that lasted over a season? Mordekaiser again?

The list is much, much larger than that where broken things that were complained about took several patches or even seasons until they were addressed. Nothing has changed. They've been through this before. There's always gonna be a subset of players complaining, a majority of players who don't care and just play the game anyway or adapt, and a subset of twisted fucks who actually like things like Ardent Meta and Tank Fizz.

Jamenawerl2 votes

So much this.

Never forgetti 99% banrate Kassawin for 3 years. People in the boards are like "Woah guys listen to me I discovered why the community is complaining im a genius". No shit sherlock, if you keep ignoring someone with shitty excuses for fucking years of course he is gonna get mad at you. Lol.

lnsaneeez4 votes

Personally, as ADC main i liked the s7 meta post censer nerf compared to this one-shot meta where adc oneshots and get oneshotted...

Hibeki4 votes

Hey remember when that mod made a post saying that constructive criticism gets responded to?

puts hand over ear

crickets

General Esdeath 4 votes

TL;DR Riot really can't be calling those people wrong when they've ignored every bit of constructive criticism for 2+ years be it from boards (where we can see our ranks/mains/etc), reddit main pages, youtube/streamers, and social media.

I still think my favorite was when Riot was told, BY EVERYONE, dynamic queue was a bad idea. And WE warned them about it being abused for boosting, trolling, holding games hostage, and unbalanced matchmaking, but I guess those 10 diamond players who don't deal with elo boosts, smurfs, or toxic kids on purchased accounts know better than the other 60 million players in this game when it comes to those things.

Never forget:

"Oh our system goofed. We placed IWillDominate (ex-semi pro) with bronze players in his placements."

"Oh those 10 placements you did were kinda wrong so everyone just do one game and we'll determine your rank through that one game."

"Solo queue is coming back, we're working on it."

"Oh look, Dekar173 was boosting people for money on stream for 4 months and had beef with ELO boost websites for stealing their business."

"Solo queue isn't coming back."

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

"Victorious Maokai"

I'm positive that whole season was a prank by Riot

Zullar4 votes

I just don't understand the live balance team's priorities.

You have champs like Ryze that are like 42% win rate and they are unchanged patch after patch after patch.

Then you have champs like Xerath sitting near the top of win rates (~54%) unchanged patch after patch after patch.

Then you have champs like Yasuo that are the focus of of the team's attention & receive buffs even though he's ~50% win rate with a very high ban rate due to his frustrating play style.

PhantomPrankster3 votes

before i finish reading this can the other people who type long posts format like this please?

tired of seeing gigantic posts with no separation inbetween

Żügżwäng3 votes

Don't forget their underhanded nerf of IP earning, masking it with a sneaky slot machine-like system.

AR URF2 votes

You main veigar that makes all your arguments invalid.

Fedoran7 votes

I'm not exactly a one trick though... I have 435 overall mastery score so I think my argument is indeed relevant.

AR URF4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fedora Noodle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmpRq18B,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2018-01-03T04:05:13.589+0000)

I'm not exactly a one trick though... I have 435 overall mastery score so I think my argument is indeed relevant.

I'm just messing with you. there are worse mains than veigar IMO.

hi im bosi4 votes

That's not the point. Whether a main is worse or not. The discussion is the metas that they let go on that ruin the games fun. Ardent meta literally killed mid laners. Doesn't matter how broken your champ was; veigar, leblanc, xerath, lux, zed, etc. You were at the mercy of your bot lane and who ever managed to get that ardent first would win the game. During that meta i couldn't stand playing mid because i could go 5 and 1 just to have their bot lane win the ardent race, destroy my bot, and 3v1 my mid.

Raiyza2 votes

I wouldn't say whoever got ardent first won the game, but rather who used it first. Meaning, which ever ADC was saved by ardent first, is usually the winner because while the ADC is being shielded, they are unloading damage.

Lord Phazanor 2 votes

Forgot the Galio overbuff and the letdown Yorick and Blitzcrank skins. And the lack of URF.

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