Kai'sa the upgraded version of Vayne
Literally the champ needs a nerf, absolutely busted.
Edit: It would appear a lot of people disagree with the fact that she's broken. This is funny to me.
55 Comments
Shukr4n15 votesAt least u could have write what kaisa have,such op....
Moreover, i belive that u complain about kaisa when she gets 2,5items + Otherwise community is in a big l2p issue
Dont Blìnk4 votesOh of course I could have listed why I think she is OP, but I didn't want that to be the focus of the post. I just wanted to make light of the issue more than try to get down to specifically why it is an issue and how to fix it.
Shukr4n15 votesactually u did nothing about those u listed.
Dont Blìnk2 votesReread the post and try again lol
Shukr4n17 votesLiterally the champ needs a nerf, absolutely busted.
i see nothing valuable here to be discussed
Dont Blìnk2 votesMaybe make a case as to why you think she might not be, or add in your two cents why she is. It's not hard to use your brain, I know you're capable.
Shukr4n20 voteswhy? u opened the thread, we should be here to value yuor words and yiour perspective about how she is op and see your listed points. not mine.
too easy this way. and as u can see im not the only one pointing at this in YOUR thread [zombie-brand-facepalm]
Dont Blìnk1 votesSome how other people can manage to reply in a meaningful way but you are incapable.
I literally do not care about what you think the point of the thread is, as I told you what it was.
Shukr4n13 votesit s called being biased. [zombie-brand-mindblown]
sorry
Wolfeur18 votesThat's why no one will take you seriously. This is not constructive criticism
Dont Blìnk1 votesThe criticism can be discussed here, I'm not making it a point to detail it myself when others can. As I said, it's to bring light, it's supposed to be a discussion board so discuss instead of being anal over useless things.
Wolfeur11 votesPeople saying "OMG so busted" are legion on the gameplay boards. If you want your thread to promote discussion, be the first and actually develop an argument in your post.
ShadowParker5 votesLol no.
I'm downvoting your post for the shitty reasoning.
Learn to make something worth discussing man.
Dont Blìnk1 votes?
Z3Sleeper1 votesCuz lists are dumb and always look dumb.
Shukr4n5 voteswell. i could have argumented "kaisa is balanced" stop?
it shows the lack of maturity op got then. ok
Z3Sleeper1 votesMmm just look at any listing thread ever. Plenty of comments bash it for a reason.
And the argument is already in the OP “KaiSa [is] the upgraded version of Vayne”.
Shukr4n3 votesWow
Z3Sleeper1 votesMmm do i really gotta explain the argument too? (rude)
Edit: Looking at the other comments it seems you may not have grasped it (maybe u have idk).
Take a second to think about the title “KaiSa is the upgraded version of vayne”.
What would OP possibly mean by that? How is this an argument? I’ll explain.
You see, KaiSa and Vayne hold a few parallels in their design. If someone were to say the former is the better version, it means that her parallel tools are superior to Vaynes, numerically or functionally.
As for what those are, you have to play the game to know. But for those who have seen both champions recently, they should be able to pinpoint exactly what OP is talking about. This is actually pretty smart, whether he intended it or not, as it only targets people who know what he is talking about (if someone hasn't faced both of them, they wouldn't be able to argue this).
If you were able to draw the above out of the statement, you should be able to draw this conclusion too: KaiSa needs a nerf for being flat out stronger than Vayne. (Kinda cheating cuz he made another line saying to nerf her)
Then we can replace Vayne with what she represents: KaiSa needs a nerf for being flat out stronger than [a balanced champion].
It’s an argument put into a single line cuz noone wants to read a text wall like this one.
Can it be debated? Definitely, it’s pretty damn vague, but a good starting point for an argument nontheless imo.
Sadly you've already devalued the entire discussion by making the top comment trail about whether this is a good argument in the first place. Thread is dead now oh well.
You saying "Wow" has alot of suggested meaning behind it as well (most likely disapproval of my perceived "ignorance"). Gotta look at the true meaning of words, not the words themselves.
Shukr4n1 votesNo thank. Looking at votes in the comment section it seems i already saw which is the truth. But thank Edit: if u read op edit u see u are standing on the wrong side
Z3Sleeper1 votesActually yes you could have. That statement shows your side of the argument. From there the discussion can take place.
You saying KaiSa is balanced despite what the OP stated is a deeper argument than you think already, since you are already saying that everything explained in the next reply (sorry) is false.
Then it's his turn to explain why for people like you who disagree in hopes of winning the argument and then your turn to explain why he is wrong then repeat.
I truly understand your intentions here to keep the boards clean, I totally agree with you. I just think you're waving the torch at the wrong person this time.
His replies make him look childish though, don't think he had much to discuss anyway.
TeCoolMage5 votesWhen people upvote threads that have 0 content and downvote those that do
Shukr4n4 votesindeed. that s make me hope riot balance team dont look at forum at all. maybe asking some advice from 2000lp+ chalenger players only
edit: i just saw my post got upvoted, means there s hope in decency
Terozu7 votesCept you know, without the true damage or knockback.
With more counterplay and squishier.
And she takes longer to come online.
Beacon Academy6 votesIn all honesty, I do think kai'sa is more hellish to play against than Vayne for tanks.
Vayne does true damage, but at least it is a fixed % so you can attempt to counter it with health (Edit: What I meant was the physical portion of her damage requiring just armor and mitigation by health mb.)
But Kai'sa does mixed damage with magic damage being an execute.
Not only do you have to build Armor and Magic Resistance...
But the more health you get, the stronger her passive gets.
Which causes tank builds to counter themselves after dividing their budget between both resistances.
But what do I know? I'm just a filthy Veigar main.
DragonShea7 votes[{quoted}](name=Beacon Academy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ej0jX9Bs,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-06T09:15:59.171+0000)
In all honesty, I do think kai'sa is more hellish to play against than Vayne for tanks.
Vayne does true damage, but at least it is a fixed % so you can attempt to counter it with health
But Kai'sa does mixed damage with magic damage being an execute damage.
Not only do you have to build Armor and Magic Resistance...
But the more health you get, the stronger her passive gets.
Which makes tank builds counter themselves after dividing their budget between both resistances.
Vayne's Silver bolts being counterable with HP? Dafuq son?! It can only be counter with 
and its upgrades.
iPooUnicorns2 votesThe idea behind this is a bit counter intuitive but effective. The goal of it is to make it so the only relevant damage that vayne can do to you is her W proc. If you can resist everything but her W, it theoretically takes 8.3 procs to outright kill with the W alone, so thats 25 auto attacks. Obviously it won't take her 25 autos to kill you, but health certainly does help against Vayne, if it is paired with armor.
destiny fan7 votes[{quoted}](name=Beacon Academy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ej0jX9Bs,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-06T09:15:59.171+0000)
In all honesty, I do think kai'sa is more hellish to play against than Vayne for tanks.
Vayne does true damage, but at least it is a fixed % so you can attempt to counter it with health
But Kai'sa does mixed damage with magic damage being an execute.
Not only do you have to build Armor and Magic Resistance...
But the more health you get, the stronger her passive gets.
Which causes tank builds to counter themselves after dividing their budget between both resistances.
But what do I know? I'm just a filthy Veigar main.
Vayne's true damage is % of max health http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Vayne
ValiantKiller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Beacon Academy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ej0jX9Bs,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-06T09:15:59.171+0000)
In all honesty, I do think kai'sa is more hellish to play against than Vayne for tanks.
Vayne does true damage, but at least it is a fixed % so you can attempt to counter it with health
But Kai'sa does mixed damage with magic damage being an execute.
Not only do you have to build Armor and Magic Resistance...
But the more health you get, the stronger her passive gets.
Which causes tank builds to counter themselves after dividing their budget between both resistances.
But what do I know? I'm just a filthy Veigar main.
You forgot that she got that busted shield from ultimate that make even urgot the god of bruiser not able to kill her if they both in same range.
Kaìju6 votesYou don't understand how to make a point. You made the claim which means the burdon of proof is on you, not anyone else. So until you provide that proof you are in fact, in the wrong here.
Now then. Kai'Sa does too much damage in her shower range. A good trade would be another 25 range to make her 550, but lower her passive execute to about 5 to 10% from the 17 to 20% it is right now.
Dont Blìnk1 votesAgain, another fool who fails to understand what the point is, and clearly a bunch of others as well.
It is purely to bring discussion to the table on Kai'sa, I can assert my own opinion and not justify it to any of you.
Kaìju1 votesBut you didn't make any point. You have yet to provide the proof that is your burdon to bring. Have you ever taken a public speaking class that did the debate topic?
vgamedude5 votesYeah its funny how they hotfix buffed her and just buffed her every patch post release. The opposite of what happened to 
who got repeatedly nerfed early on and nerfed every single patch post release sans the slight bump back she got in 8.5.
They didn't even wait to see how people adapted to kai sa as a new champ they just straight buffed her asap. She is an adc after all though so I can't say I'm surprised.
Sp33d Zer04 votesYeah its funny how they hotfix buffed her and just buffed her every patch post release. The opposite of what happened to
She's been out for 2 patches and got a buff on 8.6 and none for 8.7. What are you smoking and where can I get some?
saltran1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ej0jX9Bs,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-06T07:57:24.165+0000)
She's been out for 2 patches and got a buff on 8.6 and none for 8.7. What are you smoking and where can I get some?
And she's getting a Q nerf on the PBE.
Marothennan4 votesVayne is better imo. Better self peel and better burst. Kai'sa has a fat ass shield that I don't know why she can proc in combat though I'll give you that
Chromatic Eagle1 votesBecause it's her ultimate with a lengthy cooldown?
Marothennan1 votes[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ej0jX9Bs,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-04-06T15:24:46.506+0000)
Because it's her ultimate with a lengthy cooldown?
Well they can make it shorter but I'm pretty sure it's not intended to be used for dueling. From the long range it's pretty obvious that it's intended for helping your team make picks or joining fights along your team. The shield is there so you don't get instantly bursted but instead people use it to reposition and gain a huge shield in 1v1 situations.
Chromatic Eagle1 votesI'm pretty sure it's used specifically for that, in addition to teamfighting.
Sir Prepuzius3 votesWell i think it's the norm: as soon as a new champ comes out it will be op (such as zoe, irelia, kai'sa) and then it will get gradually nerfed
marketing wise, it's a smart thing to do.. kids will be motivated to buy it as soon as word spreads..
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesRiot could atleast try not to make it so obvious by buffing kais ten times in a row to broken tier and just leave her in that state for next two patches.
FrostQueensPlane2 votesVayne is infinitely harder to play than kaisa
Hammermancer2 votesShe needed the attack range buff
she needs less burst when she isn't building burst
simple as that
seriously if she has a standard 70/80/100% crit build she should deal a lot less damage on her abilities
but if she wants to do full burst and have burst and weaker autos due to weird builds then that's cool by me
gabetheguy2 voteskaisa doesn't have hard CC or true damage, or %max health damage. nor does she have consistent stealth. done. post debunked.
LegitBusinessman1 voteskaisa doesn't have hard CC or true damage, or %max health damage. nor does she have consistent stealth. done. post debunked.
Don't need consistent stealth when you instagib people in less a second.
BroLane1 voteshttp://champion.gg/champion/Kaisa/ADC http://champion.gg/champion/Kaisa/Jungle
I mean, I agree with you but you should put more effort into these posts.
GripaAviara1 votesKai'sa needs a kit change to either reduce burst or base it on burst and reduce sustained damage
Venomar1 votesI like her damages. Way too strong In lane though, she shouldn't be able to bully and wave clear like she does for someone that's so strong at three items.
Fuck her stealth though.
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