Let's Have a Debate

Dont Blìnk··7 votes·594 views

So I saw a post getting down voted for establishing the premise that people make too big a deal out of people who are toxic.

I agree with this

So the counter argument I saw was that people shouldn't have to deal with these types of players.

This is my argument against that.

Edit: The below line is a proposed illogical solution to point out the flaw in the argument stated above this, just to clear that up. You need to get rid of communication entirely

It's just common sense that out of the massive player base people will be toxic and even if banned can just make another account. Moreover even those who aren't toxic can stoop to the same level with at the minimum being passive aggressive. It's a competitive game, people will get irritated if someone does not perform well and is largely the source of much toxicity. When it comes to filtering out the bad apples of society people are essentially asking for a Utopian society, this is just inherently flawed when you account for human nature preventing such a thing. It is reasonable to believe that even in an online society where human behavior is still a factor, you will have people be toxic. It is just simply wrong to think it is at all possible for Riot Games to filter out anyone and everyone who just started to play the game before they get to cause damage. **So if you see such behavior, mute, report, and move on. It is the best you can do. **

[Separate Note] So asking the developers for better detection of these players may be all well and good but they have ways to come back into the game. I'd also like to say that punishment should only be dealt to frequent offenders, those who are consistently rude. Everyone has gotten mad at one point in their lives and has verbally expressed it, it's no different than texting it. This is reasonably fair, and with this in mind anyone can be toxic and thus you'd just end up banning everyone, a good chunk of people will have at least been passive aggressive. It's a good venting tool and releases stress. Is this good as a whole? Probably not but people will do what they can to feel better.

9 Comments

Umbral Regent8 votes

Why should I sacrifice the ability to chat, communicate, and have fun with other players just because a small handful can't be bothered to play by the rules and not be toxic?

I'd rather Riot move to punish people who abuse the chat than have the chat removed altogether.

Also, "human nature" is a weak argument. Community and society in general proves that human nature is not vile, despicable, and toxic. It's human nature to work together to better ends, not spew hate for no good reason.

And, lastly, in regards to this:

I'd also like to say that punishment should only be dealt to frequent offenders, those who are consistently rude.

This is already how the IFS at large works. Very rarely you'll get people who cross the line so far that it merits harsh and immediate punishment. Most punishments occur due to consistent negative behavior.

Dont Blìnk4 votes

I can see where you're coming from thinking I'd want the removal of chat but I actually don't. I stated at the end muting and reporting is the best way to go about this, so there truly shouldn't be an issue when it comes to those who abuse the chat. Perhaps I could have made that more clear though.

On the human nature argument, it seems you are assuming I was referring to the community as a whole being toxic, which was not the point. The point was that people who are toxic exist, it is not a perfect happy little world so expecting not to see a single toxic person is just wildly fantastical.

This is already how the IFS at large works. Very rarely you'll get people who cross the line so far that it merits harsh and immediate punishment. Most punishments occur due to consistent negative behavior.

Good I'm glad it works that way.

Edit: This just further supports the idea that toxicity will always be present. Therefore making muting and reporting the best solution and is in place so any kind of post talking about the needs is nearly useless.

Umbral Regent2 votes

I can see where you're coming from thinking I'd want the removal of chat but I actually don't. I stated at the end muting and reporting is the best way to go about this, so there truly shouldn't be an issue when it comes to those who abuse the chat. Perhaps I could have made that more clear though.

The issue there is a bit more two-fold, honestly. It's good that you cleared it up with the edit, but I feel just one more thing could be done for better clarity, which is to put that last line -

So if you see such behavior, mute, report, and move on. It is the best you can do.

In boldface.

Why I say that goes into the other half of the issue - my side. I gotta admit, my brain did a dumb and expected that last line to be the same ol' schtick I've seen raised dozens of times before. I dunno if it was the illogical counterargument or the lines that followed, but I fell into the psychological trap of reading what was ostensibly the same argument as previous ones, but ignored the bigger difference between it and the others.

And for that, I fucked up pretty majorly and owe an apology. Sorry 'bout that.

All said, though, if we ignore my slip up, I'd say we're in agreement here. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about people working up a fuss about toxicity, so I'd say that's probably the one point we don't totally agree on (if only for my indecision about it), but, yeah. Humankind is always going to have bad eggs show through, and ultimately the best course of action is to shut them out and report them.

So, once again, very sorry for misinterpreting your point, and thank you for your patience in elucidating me about it.

Dont Blìnk2 votes

Totally fine man, glad we could clear it up and thanks for being civil :)

report yasuo3 votes

[deleted]

Umbral Regent1 votes

First, it really only hurts your argument if one of the first things you do is level a personal insult.

Second, your argument about pings works both ways. Why should toxic players bring their negativity into the chat, when they could just ping everything they need to say? (though they'd just as quickly get pingmuted as they would chatmuted).

Taking toxicity seriously only ruins the game for the toxic players who get punished. If they don't like it? They can either A. Not be toxic, or B. Take their toxicity elsewhere.

I can personally handle dealing with toxic jerks - I've played Halo, I've played Call of Duty, I've played TF2, and I deal with toxic people on occasion in World of Warcraft. The toxic people in League barely faze me. But, that doesn't mean I enjoy dealing with the assholes.

And if Riot wants their community to not have to deal with assholes, far be it from me to argue. It's their game, and they're making it better for everyone.

Besides, if they just left the community to be toxic assholes to one another, the game would probably have died off some time ago. Toxic players deter newcomers from the game, and god knows I wouldn't have kept playing if I had to deal with toxicity every single match.

Dont Blìnk1 votes

Wanna continue our debate? Since you were confused about what I was arguing for.

MagicFlyingLlama1 votes

Nope. Instead of removing communication, riot has chosen the far more logical choice of removing trash.

The vast majority should not need to suffer such a massive limitation so a tiny percentage of social reject manchildren (or just children) dont need to suffer the consequences of being trash.

Dont Blìnk3 votes

Let me be clearer, the first solution was intended to be an illogical one and is the only solution to those who believe they should never have to deal with those people on their games.

Sorry for confusion.

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