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Anybody else feel like the side of the map matters?

Tormentula··41 votes·4,849 views

I never thought about it, but the more I play in this new jungle, I began to notice a few things that disadvantage red side from blue side.

The biggest key points is krugs and raptors give insane amounts of experience gold, which are in the red buff side, or in other word top side of the map for red side. However bot lane, and dragon, both very important places for a jungler to focus, are on the opposite side of the map from where their most experience gain is. In the season 6 jungle, XP was fairly distributed into both sides so this wasn't as big of a problem.

Usually I'm put in this scenario: After respawning, I can run top to my krugs so the enemy jungle who has more CS by default doesn't stay 2 levels above me, or run bot to secure drag, only burn flashes, potentially setup drag before their jungler does, and still lose tons of experience cause krugs have been untouched for awhile.

While Red side I have to worry about XP AND helping my bot lane, AND being near drag incase I need to steal, Blue side I can do krugs as freely as I can, as well as raptors, and still be near dragon, bot lane, and pressure bot lane.

While no, I don't believe I've been costed games because of the side of the map, I do feel like I have to be more pressured as a jungler when I look at my CS and gank pressure bot lane compared to the enemy jungler on blue side.

Is this a real thing with the side of the map mattering or do I just need a new game plan based on the side of the map?

49 Comments

Escheton16 votes

Blue side has jungle and viewpoint advantages. Which is why the red side tends to have a higher overal mmr. And other such balancing factors.

JavelinJoe5 votes

"balancing factors"

they are not that effective

50000000000000002 votes

Red side and blue side have about 50% win rate each. It's a bit stupid (giving different advantages to each side), but it is effective.

Sraeg20134 votes

We are speaking about 50-100 ELO advantage which is meaningless in the long run.

You can't really balance this kind of disadvantage by simply putting people 1 division above in the enemy team, because having ~15% of you screen unusable isn't something you can measure.

This game would really benefit from being rotated by ~45 degree.

I mean, not even once in 5 years of playing I felt like "I can't see shit because of HUD while I'm on the red team" in 3v3.

When I play 5v5 the team I'm on decides which side of the lane I'm going to ward. There is no such disadvantage when I play 3v3, because enemies will usually come from the side (left or right, not top left or bottom right) of the screen.

Mr Noggenfogger1 votes

Either 1, you are playing with an unlocked camera, so it doesn't matter, or 2, you're playing with it locked, so you can put a per side offset or have it semi locked. There isn't a problem with the different sides for the camera

Junkο1 votes

Clearly you have not played against Caitlyn. She can hide her traps behind turrets at bot lane.

Sraeg20133 votes

Yes, there is.

If you are the ADC on the blue side and somebody ganks you you can see both of your enemies while having complete knowledge of where your own champion is, unless you are overextended.

If you are on the red side, you can either see the ganker or enemy laners, while barely being able to see your champion.

You are naturally blind when it comes to one side of your screen, because of this.

If you are top it's the other way around.

Each lane has a different disadvantage based on the team you're on.

If the map was mirrored vertically, each team would have the exact same disadvantage as the other.

0someone01 votes

{quoted}

We are speaking about 50-100 ELO advantage which is meaningless in the long run.

You can't really balance this kind of disadvantage by simply putting people 1 division above in the enemy team, because having ~15% of you screen unusable isn't something you can measure.

This game would really benefit from being rotated by ~45 degree.

I mean, not even once in 5 years of playing I felt like "I can't see shit because of HUD while I'm on the red team" in 3v3.

When I play 5v5 the team I'm on decides which side of the lane I'm going to ward. There is no such disadvantage when I play 3v3, because enemies will usually come from the side (left or right, not top left or bottom right) of the screen.

It is an advantage, there are big skill differences in every elo, bronze to silver have a very different skill level, Silver to gold and so on.

I believe which side of the map you are on can effect certain junglers. For example, elise, if she is Blue she has a good chance of being able to gank top after a full clear, and recall to get items.

When she is Red side jungle, she must gank bot-lane instead because after a full clear. Elise clears gromp, wolves and ganks botlane, but even if the opponent is pushed up, you have a low chance of being able to get a kill because the support peels for the ADC and you only have one gap closer so if you use it to catch up, the support and ADC can focus you and you end up dying. While your doing that your bot-lane is following you (Most ADC's only have small gap closers. If at all) and they won't be able to make it in time to help you.

If you gank top however, you can probably catch up using rappel if your opponent has any dash or blink, and you can at least get a flash, assuming you wont kill the opposing top laner, you should be able to 1v1 him ( only if your not under fed)if he turns around to fight and your top laner is almost there.

Therefore there is an effect on certain junglers when you get either side.

Sraeg20132 votes

Read what I wrote before responding.

I'm talking solely about camera angle, not placement of jungle camps.

Yalathanil1 votes

Exactly. The side of jungle is truly champion specific. The red side, while it does provide more income and mana, will destroy single target and squishy champs. I usually go blue-gromp/wolves-wolves/gromp and then either Red or krugs, depending on how low I am.

NightWolf400411 votes

Playing bot lane on red side as ADC is hell due to that HUD blocking the view (especially when the enemy support is a Blitzcrank ). And I am not comfortable with unlocked camera :-(

SteelMankind7 votes

If I'm bot lane on red side, I often feel like the HUD gets in the way.

Spoofghoul3 votes

That's because it does!

MrHaZeYo2 votes

I mean, I enjoy red side more then blue side lol, use unlocked camra, it's pretty easy.

Tormentula2 votes

I think he means the HUD where you see your abilities, health bar, champion icon, items, etc etc. That HUD blocks a little bit of vision from the bottom part of your screen, which theoretically a blue team player can see you at the top of their screen but you can't see them at the bottom of your's.

MrHaZeYo4 votes

Ya, that's why I said use unlocked camra lol. If your a lvl 30 and still use a locked camra then idk what to say.

Fondling Gems8 votes

Except that you STILL HAVE TO MOVE IT FURTHER.

Being on blue side means that enemies are only blocked by your hud if they are approaching from the bottom left, which is the side of the map you control. It just gets in the way less as a blue side player than as a red side player, plus when you are moving you are less likely to accidentally click the minimap and path towards the blue side, which as a blue side player might make you walk away from a kill you are chasing but as a red side player may make you walk towards the people you are running from.

The point is being on the blue side just offers a more advantageous hud than red side because the punishment of missclicking/positioning the red side hud is greater than the blue side hud.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

I guess I don't even notice that shit, just so used to it lol.

Terozu2 votes

Also, the camera, while close to full aerial view, is actually at a tilt, so blue side can see further uphill, however, red side's ss' seem to go further, since they're more elongated on camera.

TheOnlyJoe4 votes

I don't feel like my HUD ever gets in the way, probably because made it pretty small

LordKentravyon1 votes

{quoted}

If I'm bot lane on red side, I often feel like the HUD gets in the way.

Trying to use jhin r from towert / your side of thr bushes Than they run into the bushes and are under your ability bar

KoggyStyle4 votes

bluebot is the worst fking lane.

FantasySniper2 votes

Yeah, starting on blue side makes life difficult.

It's especially bad when you have no need for the mana from Blu, and want to start from Red instead. Most top-laners are jackasses that refuse to help you and steal your Krugs (losing like half their health and often leaving it unfinished) when you're already super behind because their lane opponent has free rein on that side of the map.

MrHaZeYo2 votes

I like red side jungle better.

Bot gives better leash, Clear the entire quadrant without taking much damage, rotate to red, gank top. Get a kill or flash 75% of the time.

Jerry SeinfeId2 votes

Just being on either blue or red makes a difference already. There's some science bevind that, i recommend the game theory about it on yt.

Other than that it's objectieve and vision i guess. From scanning through the other comments i see there's a system for it.

Ofcourse tour champion also marters.

Overall i think this would really only matter in lcs or d1 and up.

Tormentula1 votes

That game theory video is irrelevant to league of legends, all it says is "color regulates aggression" but no matter what side you're on the color won't change from your minions and HP bar being blue and theirs being red. (unless you use different settings but I don't know many people personally who do.) Its not the same game as halo where the clothing is always consistent.

Also it doesn't factor in skins changing the color. (would a death blossom elise on red side be as intimidating as a blood moon elise on blue side?)

Its just a theory.

deadlychuck1 votes

It does, between the angle of the screen and objective control

I think the number was something like 44/56, bottom/top.

Janna mìd1 votes

I wonder is there a reason why i'm always red side (no jk, i'm red side like 2/3 of the times), like is there a side assignated to some people or is it just some weird luck idk

MrHaZeYo1 votes

The team your own has a higher average MMR then the other side.

Incarceration1 votes

wut?

MrHaZeYo1 votes

The team on the purple side have a higher average MMR then the team on the blue side.

LordSirChipmunk1 votes

The solution I personally see is making Rift Herald more valuable for the buff-holder in some way. It really isn't taken in very many games that I see.

Terozu1 votes

Yeah, they're thinking about removing it :b, or buffing it, or doing SOMETHING with it.

meowwow71 votes

and don't forget that the red team has to take wild shots through their own status bars with a good bit of the skill shots

Terozu1 votes

Well, as far as I know, each camp gives an equal amount of exp, with cs being the only difference, which isn't super important as far as I'm concerned, and to be fair, while blue side does indeed sit closer to drag, the entrance is facing away from them, and red side has the same all true with baron pit.

WolfBV1 votes

Yes, the map side matters. There's a percent(don't remember what) difference in your win chance based on which side of the map you're on.

A Basic Island1 votes

as a jungler that starts blue on most champs not named shaco, i prefer red side tbh

ModJango Mage1 votes

Also Blue side can give Blue to top if theres a manaless mid laner and an ap top.

woodvsmurph1 votes

Thoughts:

  1. Pro's either tend to prefer blue side or don't care either way, but that has a lot to due with pick/ban phase more than it has to do with in game; regardless, people agree with you.
  2. Sure drag is important, but 1 or 2 drags won't ruin the game for you; throwing by forcing a contest at drag could.
  3. More of your xp/gold is topside? Abuse this... if your toplaner picks a high cc champ and/or carry champ gank the crap out of their lane early. Playing a champ that farms till 6 before ganking? Gank at your first clear anyways; they won't expect it. Doing this can snowball top hard. Snowball top, and one of 2 things happens. a. toplaner splitpushes and pulls enemy jungle pressure top... allowing you to snowball other lanes and stack dragons while he/she wins 1v2 top. b. toplaner roams mid/bot to snowball while you have time to catch up on farm, gank other lanes, and stack drags knowing they won't want to fight vs a snowballed jungler and toplaner. Seriously... snowballing top can be WAY more effective (pre-6) than snowballing bot. Why? In low ranks, toplaners are generally smarter than adc's from my experience playing every role of ranked for over 3 seasons. Toplaners can have just as much kill pressure on tanks AND squishies early when snowballed, but toplaners ALSO are much tankier than adc's... making them harder to deal with early when they have the lead. Finally, most adc's are designed to reach max potential late game (some are mid game true) rather than early game; while toplaners often have max potential mid game (some in early game)... thus you boost them to peak potential before the other team has a chance to react while adc's still need more time (even when snowballing early) to reach max potential.

So seriously, do yourself a favor and abuse the enemy toplaner... they can pay it forward better than almost any other lane early game.

Master Lycan1 votes

Warwick : "Red Side has a disadvantage? Huh... Never noticed... Welp! Back to Ganking top/mid with doubles at level 3, with full health and mana!"

For those that don't understand: Getting your bot to leash Blue completes the camp faster, therefore you have more health, therefore you gank with more health after your first clear.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

This has been debated for years, riot's been unusually silent about the topic too since they updated the graphics . . .

devdev4631 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EiU910cH,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2017-02-12T10:03:05.006+0000)

This has been debated for years, riot's been unusually silent about the topic too since they updated the graphics . . .

Because they already accounted for it.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

No they haven't, they acknowledged that it's an issue but have ignored it since, just like all their other mistakes they refuse to admit.

devdev4631 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EiU910cH,comment-id=001000000000,timestamp=2017-02-12T17:57:23.122+0000)

No they haven't, they acknowledged that it's an issue but have ignored it since, just like all their other mistakes they refuse to admit.

They adjusted the amount of LP you get from winning on each side to reflect the natural imbalance. To actually fix it and make each side 50% win rate they would have to completely redo the entire map... So they did this instead, and it has pretty much solved the issue entirely.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Pfff, not worth the effort of change. Lp is pointless to people who don't play ranked regularly.

devdev4631 votes

Yeah blue side has an advantage. That's why you get more LP for winning on red side than you do on blue side to balance out the fact that blue side has like a 5% higher win rate in general. I would imagine it also effects the MMR as well but I'm actually not positive on that.

SOLOQSUPERHERO1 votes

Red side has an easier time ganking blue side for mid & bot lane though.

ForFoxSakes1 votes

With the delayed spawn timers it matters even more when top can't give you a proper leash compared to the two at bottom so when I play top red side I prefer champs who blue buff start more like Hecarim, while bottom blue side I opt for champs who can prefer red buff start or are able to steal their top red buff solo at level 1 like Graves and Shyvana. With the boosted camp damage and lower leash time, it makes top side starting blue buff much more likely for the better leash and stealing their top red buff easier

I dont find I'm often behind in levels or exp, but on first clear the scuttle makes a MAJOR impact now not only from the free gold and exp but also regens a lot of HP with the jungle item which lets you full clear before the first back. If I'm not able to get the scuttle to heal up, I find it extremely hard to clear all 6 camps

Being on bot side definitely helps your bot lane more being able to ward and clear the tri bush while having a much easier to gank path

Ultra Rapid Fyre1 votes

red side has always had an issue with ADC / supports being more easily gankable via the tribush from behind ganks on champs like hecarim and such who push the champs further into the lane when hit from behind.

Obviously there are advantages and disadvantages to both sides, but i personally feel its irrelivant to my success

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