@Meddler Galio rework

dynamo312··6 votes·8,639 views

So, I wonder how large is rework of Galio

86 Comments

RiotMeddler8 votes

Full VGU, so new model, animations, spell effects, sounds, voice, loading screen art, bio and gameplay.

In terms of kit changes I'd expect fairly significant kit changes (so more than say Ryze or Gangplank got). Too early to say yet exactly which skills we'll be keeping or replacing though.

SlashStriker1 votes

have you guys decided which are the smaller scope assassins if there are any changes like that?

RiotMeddler5 votes

Still figuring out the exact champs so won't get into a full list yet. Shaco looks likely as below, almost certainly some further work on Ekko to drag him back towards squishier builds. We're actively looking at the others you'd consider traditional assassins, not expecting changes on all of them to work out though.

redfeenix1 votes

I think adding new items might help with dealing with assassins.

You can add more tools for assassins, items similar and cool like the item 3147 . or item 3142 . Or options to counter them, such as item 3007 ,item 3155 , or item 3026 item 3053 .

I think adding more items would be a cool way to go about it.

Ideas Dagger of Time: item 1037 +item 3123 +2k Gold. Active: Place your champion in Stasis for 1 second 150s CD -It would look cool with the new invincible VFX and allow AD champions (IE HALF THE CHAMPIONS IN THE GAME) to have some option to counter burst damage. For example if a rengar ults you, this item will give you 1 second to brace for impact.

Items should be bought for niche situations in each game. I think items with cool effects should be purchasable by both claseses (such as greivious wounds or reflect AP damage: AP equiivalent of thornmail.

I'll add more

And finally, I still cannot use timer pings on certain items. The main ones I have trouble with are the support items. Targons, Spooky ghosts and I assume the third one all CANNOT be pinged. I cannot let my team know if I have a shield or cc ready etc.

Please would you mind making sure every activatable item can be pinged?

Thanks have a good day

DeadUnborn2 votes

the problem with having an ad stasis is that bruisers like vi and jarvan aswell as mobile adcs would be completely broken. Think about it, jarvan or gnar could engage on an entire team and the enter stasis to wait for their cc, escape to recharge. lucian and ez could enter stasis to kite an oponent afterwards with their dash and every single burst champ would be countered with an item purchase... IMO it would make the game less fun

redfeenix1 votes

Right but look at the combine price. Its a huge item investment.

If they spend 4k or whatever on that item, instead of IE or triforce.... shouldnt they have the oppurtunity to dodge dmg for 1 second?

It would allow us to see really cool plays at the Korean level. Imagine a super defensive build with QSS and this item. The ADC would lack damage but be unkillable.

DO you think this is a problem? Them trading late game dmg for utlity?

DeadUnborn2 votes

not an expert of this, but if the combine cost is that high then people would not bother to buy a defensive item when behind because they can't afford it and when ahead there would be more optimal choices.

Think of hourglass. Before when it was built out of large rod ever mage would get it because it was the best choice out there. Then after the nerf (increase in combine cost) mages were kicked out of the meta because their builds and gold requirements were just silly compared to ad champs. Now that the hourglass is a complete defensive/utility item it only fits certain builds and you take a hit to your damage output if you trade it for a rabbadons. On the other hand, now that rylas is so over tuned (great stats, utility and combine cost) everyone is buying that item and the meta revolves around it. The problem was that the new ap items (hex tech) are extremly gimicky and have weird build paths, so theyare only optimal on a handfull of champs.

You can apply that same logic to your proposed ad hourglass and see that a similar trend would happen. An item of that caliber would be either completly op or useless (come think of it that exact same thing happened to guisoos some patches ago; it went from mandatory to fun, useless fail in about 3 patches)

Talinis2 votes

{quoted}

I think adding new items might help with dealing with assassins.

You can add more tools for assassins, items similar and cool like the item 3147 . or item 3142 . Or options to counter them, such as item 3007 ,item 3155 , or item 3026 item 3053 .

I think adding more items would be a cool way to go about it.

Ideas Dagger of Time: item 1037 +item 3123 +2k Gold. Active: Place your champion in Stasis for 1 second 150s CD -It would look cool with the new invincible VFX and allow AD champions (IE HALF THE CHAMPIONS IN THE GAME) to have some option to counter burst damage. For example if a rengar ults you, this item will give you 1 second to brace for impact.

Items should be bought for niche situations in each game. I think items with cool effects should be purchasable by both claseses (such as greivious wounds or reflect AP damage: AP equiivalent of thornmail.

I'll add more

And finally, I still cannot use timer pings on certain items. The main ones I have trouble with are the support items. Targons, Spooky ghosts and I assume the third one all CANNOT be pinged. I cannot let my team know if I have a shield or cc ready etc.

Please would you mind making sure every activatable item can be pinged?

Thanks have a good day

Unreal how you ask for more AD survivability items when AP itemization is horrible in comparison. MAW (or did you forget that one), SCIMITAR to remove CC (how does mage remove CC?????) GHOSTBLADE for increased movement speed, STERAKS for a big shield and even side items that just PLAIN reduce overall damage like phantom dancer and don't forget lifesteal for sustain. AP assassin has really one option, Zhonya's. Mind you, it should be a melee only AP item and something with shields should be given to AP ranged instead. Zhonya's is horribly abused on long range champions and thus the constant nerfs and suffering of melee AP (and why the melee AP go tanks instead of their squishy assassin builds). AP assassins need MUCH better itemization to have them in a place where they don't require bursting their target 100 - 0 in sub .2 seconds or their AP burst builds are just not viable to kill anyone.

I propose a MELEE ONLY ITEM for AP that has AP, magic pen, armor and a small base shield that scales well with TOTAL AP to prevent ranged and tank abuse.

redfeenix1 votes

I like your idea a lot. Mêlée mages have no real unique itemization options as do melee ADs. I fully support this idea, just make sure the effect isn't too OP and abusable by the melee fizz and echos

warpenguin5551 votes

i heard something a while back about galio getting MR scalings on his abilities. was that true?

RiotMeddler3 votes

That was a concept we kicked around a year or two back, no plans to go through with it though.

Decrit1 votes

never digested too much well defensive items scalings on champion skills personally :P but either way i am no galio player.

Do you see in that regard Galio the mr version of Rammus in terms of scaling? Or you just want to scrap entirely that? In case, do you see Galio scaling off support items as a good or a bad thing?

Gare Jordans2 votes

If I had to recommend which ability to keep, I'd say it should be his ult. His ultimate is pretty unique to him as a champion.

I feel like he could use a dash in his kit somewhere though...

RiotMeddler9 votes

I think the ult's the strongest contender on the kit to be kept yeah. Despite that, don't want to promise anything, given he's still a fair way out and kit changes aren't figured out yet.

Whether or not a dash would be appropriate I think depends on a lot on what sort of role he's expected to play. Initiator tank (Vanguard)? Yep, dash could be reasonable. Defensive tanky (Warden)? Power should be put elsewhere. Some form of mage/tank hybrid still? Hard to say without knowing more about the details.

Hige2 votes

His W is pretty amazing too Meddler! back in Season 2 I remember playing with some friends on twisted treeline and how I showed them the true power of Galio tank! one of my friends was Tryndamere and he couldn't believe that he wasn't able to 1v1 me!

I mean I know it's a very personal experience but that shield with that cooldown is AWESOME, not to mention healing off damage dealt to someone else is pretty unique as well, if anything it's his most interactive spell

Decrit2 votes

... meh, actually healing off damage by a shield is very very messy. It is something controversial tactic-wise ( you mitigate damage to sustain yourself ) and is something that feels very bad for the enemy ( both because it is not very visible and because you can' t quantify on the moment how much it is worth dueling, so for the enemy is always an on press lose-lose scenario that has to be nerfed ) and marginally good for the player ( because it' s a mixed bag of resistance aniway).

Maybe they could keep it as a Sivir' s Spellshield like ability, but idk even in that case.

Hige1 votes

Considering that it doesn't actually "shield" per se, I think the ability isn't all that messy, it's literally like Braum's dash, it only gives a buff in Armor and MR to the target, the healing itself is on Galio alone so yeah the visuals are pretty confusing, but the skill itself is quite good and interactive.

As far as healing goes, that's the part akin to a shield and again, this is also present on Braum, he swallows a projectile and reduces its effectiveness in half though in Galio's case, he isn't getting damage reduction per se but he's getting healed by a flat amount that diminishes, this can be countered with grievous wounds unlike Braum's and the effect in fact can be broken super fast by a DoT.

Personally I feel like it's an awesome skill because it's very simple yet maleable with very strong moments but overall kind of weak.

A good change would be to give it a lifespan of 5 hits only instead of letting the resistances linger after the healing isn't happening anymore.

Jeddy0172 votes

If you do consider giving him a new ult, turning his old ult into a basic ability (though smaller & weaker, but with a much shorter cooldown & lower mana cost) is an option if you want to keep the old ult in some form. Just throwing this option out there. Like I said, that's IF you're giving him a new ult but want to keep the old ult in some form because of how iconic it is for Galio. This also depends on whether or not his old ult fits with the new kit & thematic.

RiotMeddler4 votes

Agreed, shifting abilities between basics and ults can be a really useful tool on some updates.

SuperLuigiLXIV2 votes

Hey Meddler, you know how, in Legend of the Poro King, the Poro King has a radius around him where if any snowballs from the enemy team enter it, the snowballs get redirected to the King and can't hit his allied players?

How feasible would it be to get something similar for Galio, where he redirects all ranged attacks in an area around him to himself, maybe with some kind of boost for each time he redirects magic damage?

Like, he could pop this projectile absorbing field and temporarily gain +20% movement speed and tenacity for each time he takes magic damage while his field is up, or maybe gains charges on a flight mechanic ala Aurelion Sol, where if he gets hit enough, his ult turns into a "take flight mode" where he flies forward at high speed and then ults on the second press of his R button instead. Since you guys are rightfully planning to keep his ult, it would allow him to be designed as a defensive or anti-siege/poke tank, while giving him something that helps him get to the enemy team so that he can utilize his ult.

RiotMeddler5 votes

Technically it should be pretty straight forward. Main concern would be that there's potentially a lot of overlap with Braum there, with that being his signature thing and a really clear niche.

Duke Anax1 votes

Braum's identy is "stand behind me" he himself is the shield (he just holds a door)

Galio projecting his shield at range opening up himself, that could be the distiction if you wanna play with simmilar effects.

Also if you keep the shield, please finally adress that issue, where "shield" effects (Windspeaker, Idol, Catalyst) don't work on resistance "shields" like Galio's and Annie's that don't have a HP value.

Athene was galios core item and the changes would have been perfect for him if not for that limitation.

SuperLuigiLXIV1 votes

There is some overlap, but I think the main different between the two would be--Braum is all about the peeling, while Galio is looking to turn things around into an engage.

So let's say, his ult is split into two components.

The first component is his normal ult, an AoE taunt.

The second component, one he gets by intercepting enough damage for his allies, gives him a sort of Zac-range "fly forward" mechanic with a second cast activating a stronger version of his normal ult that gives him CC immunity from the point that he starts his flight.

So, Galio would work a similar niche to Braum, but Braum is all about damage reduction, peeling, and stopping enemy engages, while Galio is more about self-sacrifice. Taking damage in his allies' stead empowers him to strike back, and his ult is literally "HEY EVERYONE HIT ME INSTEAD" (which it has always been) so it's quite a fitting thematic for him to absorb damage for others.

I also think you should rework his passive to something that reflects this. Maybe a bonus similar to Wukong, but where Wukong gets boosted resistances per nearby enemy because he wants to fight, Galio's passive gives him boosts per nearby ally because he wants to protect them. And then pass on his current passive by giving him MR scaling in his spells to reinforce the idea that he should want to be building anti-mage. Maybe his passive is some kind of health regen increased per nearby ally and increased by missing health to encourage him to sponge up damage without getting forced away? And then give his "redirect" spell a long cooldown so he's encouraged to use it only when he thinks the enemies are going all in, while their goal becomes to bait it out and otherwise to try and siege by hitting Galio's allies and NOT Galio himself.

And I think I'm rambling now. Sorry >_>

EDIT: That would be an interesting thing to give him for a passive: have his body stop skillshots that normally pass through enemy champions.

redfeenix1 votes

You should strongly consider that suggestion on the champions reboot about his relationships with structures. Was a great idea by a fellow player and would make an interesting passive and playstyle

Flemman1 votes

tbh, I think the ult should stay has it it now (maybe with "cc blind" if target is taunt to avoid unlucky stuff like rek'sai) and his passive should be put on his current W with level scaling and steroid nerf to not make it to much of a "jack of all trade" spell)

that leaves 2 new spell and one new passive to work on, which is to me to right amounth of change galio need to be a chalenger to other disruptor

Neamean1 votes

Galio we want to see if we can really deliver on a mid lane focused tank/mage , as we think that opens up a lot of interesting strategies

That what you guy said before and it got me thinking which champion could be consider mage tank. Chogath Maokai Gragas Sejuani. However none of them are really mid focused. All of them could jungle, all of them could go top fairly well. We've only seen cho'gath and gragas go mid. What I want to know is how could he be different from them but still compete against those similar to him. It's like how you guys always said you want to avoid a situation of "why chose x when y is better".

IS1d2f73fc65c5cecdf878c1 votes

{quoted}

Full VGU, so new model, animations, spell effects, sounds, voice, loading screen art, bio and gameplay.

Please, don't change David Lodge as his voice actor! Please...

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

oooh I can't wait.. yet.. i really like his abilities, they fit with him, a visual update is needed a bit though, i wan the re-work but i like how galio currently is.

also i've noticed a trend: The reason why some champs aren't played much is because they aren't flashy and mobile urgot and morde for example ( i love playing them) they aren't very high mobility and aren't like champs such as kat or yasuo. overall i love all of galio's abilities, i like his q damage, the uniqueness of his E W and ult he's just amazing all around.

dynamo3121 votes

Hmmm, Speaking of Demacia, I think this story Mysterious young man in Noxus who has hostility Lux. In order word, I want young man champion in Noxus. In world, light's rival is Dark?

Ralanr3 votes

About his rework that is coming you mean?

dynamo3124 votes

...

VivaLaKitten3 votes

he doesn't need a rework

Ralanr4 votes

Yes. Yes he does. For starters everything except his ult and attack range is an artillery ranged ability.

AA Tyrael1 votes

And why is that a bad thing ?

Ralanr1 votes

Because it is very awkward to utilize. He has nothing to support him in melee when he needs to CS.

AA Tyrael1 votes

He has two long range damage spells and a very powerfull shield. All these are not enough for you to CS ?

And what do you mean by being "akward to utilize". There are tons of abilities that are "akward "and most of the time there is a balance reason to back it up.

Ralanr1 votes

Sure! I'll just keep blasting from a distance to CS!

Oh wait! Here comes my jungler for a gank. Time to he-WHERE'S MY MANA?!

Galio has horrible mana issues and has very little reason to get into melee despite having one of the best melee range ults in the game while also being melee.

I'm not saying he doesn't have an interesting kit, it's fine on paper. But paper is a flimsy thing that breaks apart when wet, so his abilities in practice do not work well.

AA Tyrael1 votes

If you are hitting the minions with your spells then you are playing Galio the wrong way.

You are supposed to spend your mana blasting the mage that is in the lane with you. Not the minions !

Don't get me wrong. Galio definitely has some issues and they should be dealt with. But do you really think that wiping his whole kit is the solution ?

Galio has one of the most unique kits in the game. He is the only tank champion that can play in the mid lane. He deals a fair amount of damage and all of his abilities resolve around the control of the battlefield. There's literally no other champion like him !

So why not just focus on fixing the issues that Galio suffers from?

His mana problems could be easily resolved by tweaking his mana costs. For example you could make his Q(Resolute Smite) have a flat mana cost (right now it increases per level) .

His ult interaction with champions like Braum could be easily fixed by changing the spell from a taunt type to a charm-like effect so the affected champs can no longer break the spell.

With some additional changes he could also be played as support in the bottom lane.

DeadUnborn1 votes

Cho gath can also play in the mid lane so ye haha. Also hitting the minions with spells is just necesary against a wave clear heavy champ

DeadUnborn2 votes

he has tons of down times and his passive makes him extremly match reliant. His mana cost and ult interactions also make him really wierd plus his model is outdated. I'd say he is great for a rework

Funfact: if the enemy has a braum, nautilus or udyr your ult is cancelled as soon as they hit you (udyr has to be in bear stance and braum needs and ally to stun you quickly) but you get the point...a vanguard should be durable and not be completely deprived of his engagement tool by a little cc

Ralanr1 votes

I think he's more of a warden honestly.

DeadUnborn1 votes

I see him being a warden, but current galio's e totally disconnects from that view. They could make him a body guard that locks up people when engaged... but that would be too much of an overlap with zyra I think. he would need to be a lot more tanky/far less damage oriented to be differenciate himself enough imo

AA Tyrael1 votes

His downtimes can be fixed by altering his mana costs. His ult issue can be easily fixed by changing the taunt to a charm like effect, in which case they would no longer be able to break Galio's ult.

DeadUnborn1 votes

charm is actually a good idea. Don't know balance wise if it would work because clumping champs together is really powerfull. Making the ult radious smaller might fix that tho. Galio's down times have to do more with his absurd CD times rather than mana costs however. Yes he is gated early game by having huge mana costs but late game when he has built some mana regen or something like ROA he still has huge down times. This is because galio's power entirely revolves around his ult and his abilities are all very good (all provide a good chunk of damage and/or crazy utility). Galio is not useless or unbalanced like many other reowrked champs, like sion, gp or poppy were, but tbh he is just boring

AA Tyrael1 votes

Allow me to disagree. He is only boring if you do NOT like to play TANKS. Is his kit more "boring" than Rammus ? How about Malphite ? See where I am going? You can't just compare a tank/mage with a fancy champ like Ahri or Ekko

Finally, his CD times can be reduced very easily with three items. (Abyssal Scepter, Zhonya Hourglass & Frozen Heart).

DeadUnborn1 votes

I love playing tanks! Particulary nat, sejuani, amumu and zac (I main jungle). Obviously galio is not boring to play for you, but for the mayority of the player base it is. You are talking about having 40% cdr, that requires at least to purhase 3 items for most builds and ranking you r and e to max rank. Also galio's w is just a shield with no meaningful interactions (I know it works but does not change gamplay patterns significantly). Early game his cds are atroucious also and mana costs really high, so doesn´t get to do much until he gets some items.

Again, he might be fun to you and some other people, but in broader terms he is very plain outside of his ult (which is very unreliable). In most instances he is just bland honestly... for most people is nto fun to go in, land some damage with q every 7 seconds for a minute and then go back to base because you ran out of mana, it just isn't

AA Tyrael1 votes

Galio main damage spell is Resolute Smite(Q)(and not his e like you implied) which has a fair cooldown of 7 seconds. That is very low for a tank champ.

The "boring" shield that you are referring to at LV 5 is equivalent to 45% damage reduction for an ally(thats almost an Alistar ult). It also significantly heals Galio.

You are also far exaggerating the mana issue. His mana costs/mp5 are nearly on the same level of other mage Champions. Additionally he has one of the highest starting mana pools in the game. Let's compare him to Morgana.

Morgana Q : COST: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 MANA - COOLDOWN: 11 Galio Q: COST: 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 MANA - COOLDOWN: 7

Morgana W: COST: 70 / 85 / 100 / 115 / 130 MANA - COOLDOWN: 10 Galio E: COST: 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 MANA - COOLDOWN: 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9

Morgana E: COST: 55 MANA - COOLDOWN: 23 / 21 / 19 / 17 / 15 Galio W: COST: 60 - MANA COOLDOWN: 13

Morgana R: COST: 100 MANA - COOLDOWN: 120 / 110 / 100 Galio R: COST: 100 MANA - COOLDOWN: 150 / 135 / 120

Is Morgana atrocious as well ?

You seem to only like tanky champions that can spend the majority of time alone in the jungle . And in that case you have plenty of champions to pick from.

How many tank champions are available in mid lane for players ?. Just two. Galio & Cho' Gath.

Cho'gath (the other mid-lane tank) is a champ that has precisely the same play rate as Galio. Do you play Cho-gath there ?No, you find his lane gameplay equally plain . Additionally his basic skills cooldowns are even higher than those of Galio. Should he be ditched as well ?

Let's face it. Tanks in lanes are not popular and will likely never be (No Gnar is not a tank). People that are oriented to mid lane prefer fancy burst like / assasin champions with the purpose of getting kills. But should every mid lane game be Leblanc, Fizz and Ahri ? (with the usual Yasuo & Zed perma bans) Come on ! Galio is different. Is that a crime ? Sure he has issue but all of them could be fixed(with a bit of work) without ruining his kit. And if the interaction with Braum is fixed then he would be able to be played as a support as well.

DeadUnborn1 votes

You are having a hard time distinguishing usefulness from interactivity.

Yes galio's kit does work, but its very one dimensional and doesn't offer much variaty gameplay wise.

His w is good, but neither he nor his opponent will change gameplay patterns based on it. Galio will use it as soon as he starts fighting and then it will go on cd. Look at other shields for example, morgana has to choose which target to protect from cc which provides significant gameplay choices for everyone else, naut offers extra damage (this shield is also meh but the all other 3 abilities and passive offer cc so this is ok), Sion can do damage with it so the enemy has to try to burst the shield down or run away, janna gets to boost someones damage/protect them at specific times. Galio by comparison 90% just serves as a stat boost on himself while fighting and occacionally can be used on an ally tank but that almost never happens.

The e is also very uninteractive. Yes it works, im not devating that. But take karma's shield by contrast. It feels way more powerfull and impactful than galios because the movement speed game is not constricted to a specific vector. also i have no idea how you concluded I said most of his dmage came from his e haha

His q and ult are unique but the ult is very unreliable and ebcause it is so powerfull it has a long cd Galio being different is not a crime, singed is different ant he is not getting a rework. Also come on, if you are telling me galio is not gated early game by mana costs then you haven't played him. You can´t compare morgana's and galio's mana costs because their mid lane play patterns are VERY distinct from each other. Mid lane morgana just spams w to push wave until roa and then waits for a gank. You and I know she is mostly played as a support where her Q and E have very high rewards and because of window of opporunity and having an adc to push wave for you have not to be used as often. So yea you are forgetting to take into account cd time in addition to comparing mana costs

Just a last thought, but having galio as a support is WAY sub optimal because he has no real peel and his passive is completely counter intuitive for that role because outside of a locket as a 3rd item you wont be building much mr. Not saying he can't be played support, just that froma competitive stand poitn there is no reason to. and if they "fixed" his interaction with braum, for consitency terms he would not be able to have his ult stopped by stuns, which balance wise might be too op since outside of really smart positioning there would be no counter to it.

Sorry man but in statistical, objective terms most people think galio is boring to play and Riot's approach to kaizen (continious improvement) prevents them from having assets on the game that make it seem unfinished for a majority of the player base. YES! there should be more tanky champs in other lanes! that is what riot is trying to accomplish by reworking galio, make a feasible, fun to play mid tank laner.

TLDR: you are failing to see that by "fixing galio's small problems" he would become too op because of all the utility, tankiness and damage he would bring. Riot wants to make a long term change that allows to balance galio and make him fun to play for most people

redfeenix3 votes

Its the same scale as Yorick, Sion, Taric etc.

Completely new visuals, including skins, and brand new abilties.

Not like the class reworks which only change a few abilities on many champs.

Sexy Jack Rabbit3 votes

Is it true that CertainlyT is involved in this rework? Because we all know how he is when it comes to designing champions. Bad.

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