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3 Reasons why is Ancient Coin worser then other support items

Yuneek··11 votes·2,058 views

http://i.imgur.com/3odIyhw.png

Hi guys, I would like to tell you my opinion what is bad about item 3301 Ancient Coin

1, Cooldown reduction item 3301 is not good stats for early game as AP item 3303 and HPitem 3302 , i think if it would be replaced with AP,HP or MANA it would be much better

2, Quest reward become insignificant in late game, because you get from it on lvl 18 absolutely nothing because it don't give you ability to have 19 point in abilities, i mean Spellthief's Edge reward item 3303 can save you from getting caught when you are deep warding, Relic Shield reward item 3302 will give you ability to tank one more auto from enemy's ADC, Coin give you in late game absolutely nothing

3, Way how you get golds is also pretty bad in my opinion, lets say you ADC wanna have some solo experience because he is behind, with Spellthief's Edge it isn't problem, you just can get gold by roaming and poking enemies, with Relic Shield it is somehow workable, jusk kill 1-4 minions when go away and he gonna have solo experience from rest of the minions, but with coin you can't do it, there are only two options, you gonna have gold but your ADC will still be behind in experience because you are in lane with him or your ADC will have some solo experience but you will not have gold and you will get behind because of it, I mean this problem Coin had even before rework and is bit sad nobody don't had any idea about fixing it while it was reworked

I really think Coin is really bad for late game (lets say 50 min match where you already have tons of golds) and it is must replace item which is kinda sad, I usually replace Talisman of Ascension item 3069 with any other not gold income item in game and Eye of the Oasis item 2302 replace with Ruby Sightstone for extra CDR on items because you get much better stats from it I think any item isn't supposed to be must-replace-thing (except item 1055 item 1056 item 1054 item 1083 item 2033 item 2031 )

Do you have also some reasons which i don't mentioned, write them in comment section

I hope something with Coin will be changed to the better way, thank you for reading summoners have a nice day

Sorry for some grammatical mistakes, English isn't my primary language :)

My older discussions

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/vWK6c8IR-how-about-add-some-older-versions-of-items-as-a-new-items

21 Comments

Funkin Dunkin3 votes

coin was at it's best when it gave passive movement speed :D

Yuneek1 votes

coin was at it's best when it gave passive movement speed :D

I loved that ❤

48983507DEL12 votes

[deleted]

SnakDatSmilesBak3 votes

He mentioned English isn't his first language. If you're gonna correct him do it right.

48983507DEL11 votes

Must've skipped over that. My apologies.

SnakDatSmilesBak1 votes

Hey you don't have to apologize to me :)

Yuneek1 votes

"worser"

Ye, i noticed that mistake too but titles cant be edited :/ , sorry

48983507DEL11 votes

Sorry I didn't realize English wasn't your primary language :/ that was uncalled for.

ChaddyFantome2 votes
  1. The mana it provides gives you more lane longevity than the other two options tho and is a safer pick if you can't freely proc the other 2 items in the given lane matchup. Also, you are incorrect about the early CDR. It is pretty significant as is can very easily be the difference between a shield or heal or not, or even just the uptime of a CC spell.

Janna can basically have her E up for all times of harass with coin at lvl 1 for example.

  1. Late game it provides you with gold and mana on every assist. This is actually pretty significant as it lets you stay out on the map and not have to back as much mid to late game unlike with the other options. it's basically a free Morrelonomicon passive and shouldn't be underestimated.

Also, item 3069 has the best Active of all 3 items.

While the elixir by itself is mostly whatever, it fits the item very well as champs that tend to favor coin tend to like roaming, and goign out to ward a lot, which means it compensates for the level deficit they face doing so.

Just Blame Jenny2 votes

Only silver, but hey, here's my take on it thus far:

  1. Early CDR is actually huge on some champions. When playing Janna, for example, it helps me to keep shields up constantly. Completely shuts down poke lanes.

On the other hand, I'll take Spellthief's on Janna when I feel I can play aggressively. However, this only suggests that there are two equally viable choices, which is a good thing.

  1. Yeah, the quest reward feels weak compared to the Spellthief's reward, which is huge. Might be a case of Spellthief's reward needing a nerf more than Ancient Coin's being too weak, though.

  2. If you're roaming and poking other champions, you're likely in another lane. In which case, you still get gold.

You're only not getting gold for things like, say, jungle skirmishes, which are such a small portion of your income as a support anyway.

(Bonus!) 4) Ancient Coin upgrades into Talisman of Ascension, which has an amazing (if somewhat niche for the cost) active. Great engage, great disengage, and great for kiting. Need to help your fed Nasus get into reach of the enemy team? Talisman. Need to help your ADC kite away from a fed Tryndamere? Talisman. Absolutely marvelous item.

Yuneek1 votes

Only silver, but hey, here's my take on it thus far:

  1. Early CDR is actually huge on some champions. When playing Janna, for example, it helps me to keep shields up constantly. Completely shuts down poke lanes.

On the other hand, I'll take Spellthief's on Janna when I feel I can play aggressively. However, this only suggests that there are two equally viable choices, which is a good thing.

  1. Yeah, the quest reward feels weak compared to the Spellthief's reward, which is huge. Might be a case of Spellthief's reward needing a nerf more than Ancient Coin's being too weak, though.

  2. If you're roaming and poking other champions, you're likely in another lane. In which case, you still get gold.

You're only not getting gold for things like, say, jungle skirmishes, which are such a small portion of your income as a support anyway.

(Bonus!) 4) Ancient Coin upgrades into Talisman of Ascension, which has an amazing (if somewhat niche for the cost) active. Great engage, great disengage, and great for kiting. Need to help your fed Nasus get into reach of the enemy team? Talisman. Need to help your ADC kite away from a fed Tryndamere? Talisman. Absolutely marvelous item.

1, 5% CDR on Janna make's your E cooldown shorter from 10 sec to 9,5 sec from my personal opinion if your ADC isn't idiot who can't live on bot lane without uninterrupted trading I don't think it will actually change too much, when i usually play Janna i use my E once per 20-25 sec in lane-ing phase

2, Coin is weak, mainly on late game, the Quest reward give you nothing in late game, and that's the problem

3, You don't need be in lane, you can be in jungle warding on when you are in other lane you don't need be there long, just use combo and when go away (if you are champion with poke ofc)

4, item 3069 Talisman of Ascension isn't bad item (only think which i don't like on it is the reward), but i like healing and shielding power so i try to buy as much healing and shielding power as i can like every game, so i don't have slot for that item :/

But it is definitely not problem of the item but problem of my champion pool Nami Janna Sona Lulu

SnakDatSmilesBak1 votes

Early cdr is huge. In a lot of my games as ashe support I wasn't sure whether to take coin or spellthief's. The difference between the two was very noticable. The early cdr from coin helped so much since cdr is such an important Stat for ashe.

The level bonus is meant to help you catch up in xp that you'd lose by warding, roaming, etc. It trades powerful defense or offense oriented stats for more utility. I actually suggested this in a huge post a long time ago so I can speak at length about this or even link you to that old post to help you understand.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/nRFKAy0b-exp-on-support-item

As for the gold problem, can't you just go stand with a different teammate and get the same gold?

All of the starter support items are must replace after 50 minutes. Support is the role that gets to keep their starting item the longest but that doesn't mean that their item is exceptionally powerful.

Yuneek1 votes

Early cdr is huge. In a lot of my games as ashe support I wasn't sure whether to take coin or spellthief's. The difference between the >two was very noticable. The early cdr from coin helped so much since cdr is such an important Stat for ashe.

The level bonus is meant to help you catch up in xp that you'd lose by warding, roaming, etc. It trades powerful defense or offense >oriented stats for more utility. I actually suggested this in a huge post a long time ago so I can speak at length about this or even link >you to that old post to help you understand.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/nRFKAy0b-exp-on-support-item

As for the gold problem, can't you just go stand with a different teammate and get the same gold?

All of the starter support items are must replace after 50 minutes. Support is the role that gets to keep their starting item the longest but that doesn't mean that their item is exceptionally powerful.

Using Ashe for comparison two items isn't good idea, I mean Spellthief give you AP and Ashe has only one spell which scale with AP and that is her ultimate ... so it is evidently that Coin is much better on her then Spellthief, because you pay for useless stats on Spellthief

Also i don't thing all support items must be replaced, mainly after adding those quest rewards.

SnakDatSmilesBak1 votes

Spellthief's gives extra damage when you hit the enemy. Which makes ashe's great poke extraordinary. Trust me there was a good reason to go for either.

Yuneek1 votes

Spellthief's gives extra damage when you hit the enemy. Which makes ashe's great poke extraordinary. Trust me there was a good reason to go for either.

Still it is bit waste of gold, the 5 AP have value of 110 golds and when you start only with with 500 gold you waste a LOT, and you can't waste gold at early game, it can increase your chance of losing

SnakDatSmilesBak1 votes

If you think it's a waste of gold go into a game and try it for yourself. Doublelift built spellthief's. That doesn't mean it's not a slight waste of gold but the item is very strong on ashe.

Buildermann 131 votes

On CC supports, like Leona and Thresh, we sometimes get coin to be more aggressive because our spells are up that much quicker. For champs where it is standard to buy coin, like Rakan, they seem to be made more aggressive in their play style and you are more easily able to get kills, providing your adc is willing.

Stacona1 votes

than*

Yuneek1 votes

than*

Dammit, 2 mistakes in title, the only thing which i can't edit .....

Krigjer1 votes

At this point it's better to copy/paste your post into a new thread and delete this one. A large portion of replies will only focus on your title spelling mistakes.

DemainaNyx1 votes

Coin has always been the worst item, in my eyes, since it always gave less potential gold than other support items, which I think was fine because it was a passive item vs an active item (hitting spells/auto or killing minions). Now I feel like it's even worse, cause now you can be zoned from getting mana/gold if the enemy team is smart about it. Placing Caitlyn traps near a coin drop makes it less likely the support will try to get that, which means they've got less gold/mana than if they had gone a different starter.

I feel like it giving less gold that other items is ideal for balance purposes, but I'm not sure how to change the rest of it to make it less horrible.

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