Satchel Charge (W) will execute turrets when they’re under 25%/27.5/30/32.5/35% Health.
Turrets are already stupidly weak. Ziggs might need buffs or changes to his kit, but completely annihilating turrets with one ability without any counter-play is not the way to do it.
FACE THE WlND3 votesThey buffed turrets a ton.
Lucifer1 votes[{quoted}](name=FACE THE WlND,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdeEUFKy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-21T11:21:27.344+0000)
They buffed turrets a ton.
They did, but even with the buff to turrets I think this change is going to be way too much.
FACE THE WlND3 votesIt's one champion, he has a high skill cap, tons of counterplay, squishy, and pretty immobile. I don't know why people are complaining. He will a niche at the most. Anyways why is it bad to have one Mage known for tower pushing?
Lucifer1 votes[{quoted}](name=FACE THE WlND,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdeEUFKy,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-21T11:46:32.279+0000)
It's one champion, he has a high skill cap, tons of counterplay, squishy, and pretty immobile. I don't know why people are complaining. He will a niche at the most. Anyways why is it bad to have one Mage known for tower pushing?
Just because a champion has a high skill cap doesn't mean you can just nonchalantly add something like this to their kit without any explanation. That's such a weird justification. Should satchel charge automatically kill inhibitors or objectives at 25-35% health too? Why not? He has a high skill cap?
He is certainly not the only mage capable of pushing turrets, and the turret changes in general favor mages when taking down turrets. Also just because he is squishy does not mean he isn't safe. Lux is another good example of this. Ziggs has one of the best anti-sieges in the game. Does he need superior siege on top of this? When Ziggs was FOTM a few seasons ago it was not fun being completely unable to progress and push.
FACE THE WlND2 votesFor one, it's not unnecessary. Turrets are being buffed as I said before, so it makes sense to have a champion who can help finish them off. Two, it fits his theme. Three, Zigg's at the moment stalls games out, instead of actually having a real purpose or reason to pick him. Finally, four, it is balanced because Zigg's has clear weaknesses and in doing this uses his only escape and can be punished for it.
Lucifer1 votes[{quoted}](name=FACE THE WlND,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdeEUFKy,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-21T12:12:19.555+0000)
For one, it's not unnecessary. Turrets are being buffed as I said before, so it makes sense to have a champion who can help finish them off. Two, it fits his theme. Three, Zigg's at the moment stalls games out, instead of actually having a real purpose or reason to pick him. Finally, four, it is balanced because Zigg's has clear weaknesses and in doing this uses his only escape and can be punished for it.
destroying a turret at 35% health with one ability is doing more than just "finishing it off." It turns him into one of the best siege champions in the game. This is on top of also being a strong poke champion and a strong anti-siege champion. Having a champion with TOO many identities is a problem, no matter how "high" their skill cap is. Azir is blatant evidence of that. It doesn't matter if you can be punished for it. Ziggs dying for a turret will almost always be worth the trade. Especially if it's an inhibitor turret. Assuming his team is with him, there really is no reason he should even be dying.
FACE THE WlND2 votesYou do realize, he will only be doing 25% most of the game because you max Q and W first, and games end sooner, even though they're changing death timers, and turrets got buffed. It is completely balanced and if you fail to see that there is no point in me arguing here. Should Nasus Q no longer damage turrets? It's 10x more effective, if you bring up the fact that it takes time for his Q to scale you're contradicting yourself btw.
Lucifer1 votes[{quoted}](name=FACE THE WlND,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdeEUFKy,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-21T12:20:09.363+0000)
You do realize, he will only be doing 25% most of the game because you max Q and W first, and games end sooner, even though they're changing death timers, and turrets got buffed. It is completely balanced and if you fail to see that there is no point in me arguing here.
There is strong incentive to max E second with this change, especially if you have a good siege composition. By the time you're getting to the inhib turret, you should have E maxed, or at least a good amount of points into it.
It's not balanced, and it will be easily exploited at high elo and competitive play where taking turrets is what snowballs games.
FACE THE WlND2 votesOh, ok! So see now if you max E second, where does all that wave clear and slowing/so called escape in your opinion go?
Lucifer1 votes[{quoted}](name=FACE THE WlND,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdeEUFKy,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-21T12:25:50.526+0000)
Oh, ok! So see now if you max E second, where does all that wave clear and slowing/so called escape in your opinion go?
You'd put one point in minefield and max it last (assuming you're against someone who isn't going to push you hard. In which case you'd still max E last). With ludens and enough AP, he shouldn't have a problem clearing waves with his passive. He still gets a 20% slow for each mine activated with just one point in it, and the damage / AP scaling isn't effected all that much by leveling it up.
Edit: His ult CD is also being reduced, so he has more opportunity to use that to clear waves as well.
FACE THE WlND1 votesYeah but his ult no longer deals bonus damage to minions, and you seem to have an artificial excuse for the flaws of his kit, so convenient... Have you even played new Zigg's? He's also not a burst Mage, Ludens won't be ideal on him.
Lucifer1 votes[{quoted}](name=FACE THE WlND,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdeEUFKy,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-21T12:33:57.322+0000)
Yeah but his ult no longer deals bonus damage to minions, and you seem to have an artificial excuse for the flaws of his kit, so convenient... Have you even played new Zigg's? He's also not a burst Mage, Ludens won't be ideal on him.
Ludens is core on Ziggs and honestly any poke mage. :| I'm kind of convinced you don't know what you're talking about.
FACE THE WlND1 votesWith the new changes? Really is that what you think? My question still stands, have you even played new Zigg's yet? Ludens is a good rush item on burst mages/some assassins, but for control mages or poke mages you want to prioritize cdr, mana regen, and utility. If Zigg's goes Ludens early he will have mana issues, and long cool downs, if he builds Ludens late, it won't be worth it because the damage does not scale very well and is better as an early spike. You can keep making excuses, but Zigg's has clear weaknesses and trade offs, and not every tower he walks up to is going to be <25%.
Bears Dont Care1 votesJust because a champion has a high skill cap doesn't mean you can just nonchalantly add something like this to their kit without any explanation. That's such a weird justification.
Well said, even the most complicated characters ni GGXX who may the best, are not allowed ot have a broken mechanic
Zane Zephyr3 votesAnd if he uses it to blow up a turret then what does he have to escape?
Lucifer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Zane Zephyr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdeEUFKy,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-04-21T11:57:29.683+0000)
And if he uses it to blow up a turret then what does he have to escape?
Flash, minefield, a team that's with him?
FACE THE WlND2 votesYou cannot use flash as a way of arguing a champ has an escape, that is extremely conditional. Minefield will not stop hard engage.
Zero Skill Tank1 votesUnless you are playing Zed, than they are even squishier than before.
Magneto811 votesYeah, someone who can race against Tristana :)
Add 3 earth dragons and an elder dragon and this is going to be great fun!