We need a true hybrid DPS item foe lategame

Snakethrower·10/8/2014, 9:46:18 AM·10 votes·3,295 views

The recent Varus discussion made me wonder what is actually holding him back. A look at his scalings gave a fast response. Considereing this issue made me wonder how this effected other champions.

The answer became suddenly clear to me: Hybrid champions are dieing out. They get reworked. The recent Sion rework is the best example.

He had great AP ratios but his E and R definitely aimed at making him build AD as well.

So what do you guys think, should RIOT consider creating more suitable hybrid items?

Feel free to post suggestions!

58 Comments

Snakethrower10/8/2014, 12:22:26 PM5 votes

Suggestion:

Magical Switchblade Build of Guinsoo's Rageblade 2600

Pickaxe 865
Blasting Wand 860 +75g =4300g

60 AD (5 through combination) 85 AP (5 through combination) Keeps: Guinsoo's passive New active (Toggle): Turns all of your abilities and auto attack into magical damage. Turns all your abilities and auto attacks into physical damage.

This item comes at a huge price and offers relatively few stats for it. In my eyes the trough strength of a hybrid champion is the face that it's difficult to build armor/mr against him. This item allows the player to always fight the enemies weakness. Due to the high costs it's inefficient for other champions to use though.

The final question would be wether this is enough to compete with AD crit builds or a 0815 Triforce.

DrCyanide10/8/2014, 5:12:38 PM4 votes

AD champions have item 3031 Infinity Edge to get more damage out of their auto attacks. AP champions have item 3089 Rabadon's Deathcap to get more damage out of their spells.

Hybrid champions (or, at least, hybrid builds) loose out on the bonus damage from one or the other no matter which they get. Either they get Infinity Edge and have it ignore their bonus AP, or they get Deathcap and have it ignore all their bonus AD.

An item that gave bonus AD stats based on AP, and bonus AP stats based on AD would be the best way to give Hybrid builds a fighting chance. It would be hard to abuse by anyone not going hybrid, and it would encourage the build both sides.

TheRainInSpain10/8/2014, 1:07:15 PM3 votes

First of all, Old Sion wasn't a hybrid champion. Neither is Varus. They're "Either or" champions. You either built Old Sion for Flat AP or a mADC build. To get the most out of him, you never attempted to build Gunblade, Rageblade, etc. Same with Varus; Varus' abilities don't scale with both AD and AP. Jax, Kayle, and Akali, however, have hybrid scaling abilities. They're still perfectly capable of being hybrid built.

But I digress, hybrid builds should have a niche in League. A meaningful choice as Riot put it. My opinion is that on a champion that can be built hybrid, the choice of going hybrid is to overwhelm your opponent(s) with hard to mitigate damage over extended trades. What do you do against a hybrid Jax? Do you rush MR? Jax's AD components will still get you. Do you rush AR? Jax will still strike back with his AP side. The logical choice is to build health, maybe rushing a Warmog's Armor.

And that is what I think Hybrid's "Penetration" item should do, an item (that isn't a Bork or Liandry's) that reduces the impact of combating your hybrid build with health.

Kuroi8610/8/2014, 7:27:03 PM3 votes

There are three powerful hybrid items already. Hextech Gunblade, Guinsoo's Rageblade and Trinity Force. We really don't need any more hybrid items. (Note: Varus really doesn't count as much of a hybrid champ. A real hybrid champ is a champ with an ability that scales on both AD and AP, see Jax, Akali and Poppy.) As for what is holding Varus back, nothing really, he could use a minor buff to his passive imo but he's still a very strong pick with good utility and high damage.

Azlagor10/8/2014, 1:03:24 PM3 votes

some buffs to the exisiting hybrid-items would already help, and better hybrid ratios for champs would be needed. We only have 3 hyybrid champs left, Akali, Jax and Kayle. I think one bug problem for hybris champs is that they can't itemize for hybrid pen, which hurts their lategame a lot unless they have redicouls scalings(which makes them rather snowbally and usually massive at midgame if the get a lead) Also, hybrid builts lack a multiplicative stat going for them in the late. AD+AS is already multiplickative and can scale even further with crit and crit damage, ap get's increased by 30% from deathcap. Hybrid champs would need something like akalies passive that alows AD to increase the effeckt of AP, and the other way around(akalie does % of her total AD as bonus magic damage. The AD scaling depends on ur AP, AD and AP scale multiplicativly with each other) We also lack a bit hybrid items without AS. Gunblade is the only item for champions that scale of AD and AP, but not AS. The problem is that balancing hybrid champs is rather comblicated, as their mixed damage makes the pretty strong early and midgame, and it's also hard to get numbers right so a pure AD or pure AP does not outclass hybrid Another problem for hybrid(and ap-onhit) builts is sustain. We have Gunblade, but alot damage from hybrid(or magic-onhit) champs comes from on-hit effeckts, which often don'T work with spellvamp. If simply all on-hits would work with spellvamp, it would already help alot. I'd also like to see a buff on trinitys ap to make it better for hybrid. It currently gains 10ad(360g), but only 5 ap(109g) from the combine. Increaseing the ap from 30-40 would already help alot without having to much impact on ad-champs.

p.s, if Ruind king is better on a hybrid-champ like jax than a hybrid item, then either Guinsoos and Gunblade need a buff, or BotrK a nerf(probably a combination of both)

SionideCN10/8/2014, 12:43:35 PM3 votes

That would be one of the most broken items in the game, I'm not even kidding. There is a reason that hybrid items are not a thing, they offer way too many stats for champions with two types of ratios. And giving the ability to circumvent a target's armor and mr? fuck that thing woul be broken

Hayaishi10/8/2014, 6:29:58 PM2 votes

Varus' problem has nothing to do with his ap scaling.

Jryiah10/11/2014, 12:13:42 AM2 votes

I think OP is correct, we need a big money hybrid item. Currently there are only 2 hybrid items in the game. item 3124 Rageblade being the midrange one and needing basic attacks to function. item 3146 Gunblade being the stronger one with two forms of sustain and slow active.

If you consider item 3078 TF a hybrid item, your not being very realistic. It only has a meager 30 AP. Its built for the big physical damage proc.

AtheosisX10/11/2014, 12:16:39 AM2 votes

I love hybrid champions, so I really hope they aren't phased out entirely. Would make the game much less interesting.

ceaselessphantom10/12/2014, 1:53:47 PM1 votes

I almost guarantee you hybrid Sion was not a thing. Half the ratio on his shield was dependent on it not getting destroyed before you blew it up. Even with pure ap that was hard after early game. With hybrid you can forget that happening.

Edit At least not recently.

Marthian10/8/2014, 6:34:53 PM1 votes

I don't think they support hybrid damage since it's very hard to defend against. There is only one final item that gives Armor and MR: Guardian Angel. Otherwise, your defensive items are being cut in half, only defending against half the damage.

Kuroi8610/10/2014, 3:16:55 AM1 votes

That's a good one. But Jax with Triforce, Gunblade, Rageblade, 2 tank items and boots is terrifying. Maybe go Bork with GA instead of the straight tank items if he's far enough ahead.

Just gonna drop this into a new box, our convo was getting a bit long winded lol.

I won't argue, that's a good build, but until you've got your second item built, you're going to be lacking a bit in dueling potential. Why most people go Bork first is how well it synergizes with his passive and makes him incredibly hard to kill simply by how hard he can sustain through a fight. I'd honestly start Bork, Rageblade, Triforce, Gunblade, Swiftness boots then Nashor's or GA if you need the protection. (Don't know why so few people mention how good Nashor's Tooth is on hybrid builds.

Zanphyra10/8/2014, 10:16:28 AM1 votes

I would be interested in them pushing more for Jax to be a true hybrid champion.

Or maybe they could add an AP ratio to Aatrox W then I'd go like... Gunblade on him. He gets the active up really fast but doesn't have enough AP ratios to make it viable to do.

So yes, I personally would be interested in it but I don't know about others.