Why does Fiora's W have an attack speed slow?

Ekko Project·May 8, 2017·43 votes·2,908 views

^Just feels kind of random...

62 Comments

Fed by Snu SnuMay 9, 201715 votes

Knowing the forums, they will defend it for over 3 years and downvote any post about it, until Riot remembers their "a kit shouldn't have hidden power" argument and remove it.

I mean...it's not like it has never happened before... LeeSin

GULAG 4 UMay 9, 20173 votes

Eh the forums don't do that at all actually. They constantly ask for removal of such things in fact, such as Lee's wardhop and other things.

Fed by Snu SnuMay 9, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Eh the forums don't do that at all actually. They constantly ask for removal of such things in fact, such as Lee's wardhop and other things.

It only took 6 years.

I used to get downvoted in Season 2-3 for saying Lee Sin's attack speed slow wins teamfights on its own and the thing you were told were always the same crap: "He falls off lategame". Apparently a champion who used to win teamfights with the click of a single E falled off in teamfights.

skyskee008May 9, 20171 votes

Malphite?

Fed by Snu SnuMay 9, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Malphite?

Only larger range, increase its duration by 1 second, the AS slow by 10% and make it scale with bonus AD while still doing magical damage.

flibitydooMay 10, 20171 votes

technically the slow component (cripple) of lee's E requires you to first cast tempest which means it isn't a single click

CaythelesMay 9, 20179 votes

Ok well im not defending fiora "Played her like once when she got reworked, dont care much for her, just here to shed some light". But when actual sword fighting a Riposte is a quick strike after a parry, the slow comes in at the parry part. if i were to parry your attack your sword or weapon would have a drawback in momentum from the force/angle it was pushed from with my blade. however for riot to implement this they added the slow to the strike portion of Riposte. So its justified, just strangely.

Sèx Craved EveMay 9, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Ok well im not defending fiora "Played her like once when she got reworked, dont care much for her, just here to shed some light". But when actual sword fighting a Riposte is a quick strike after a parry, the slow comes in at the parry part. if i were to parry your attack your sword or weapon would have a drawback in momentum from the force/angle it was pushed from with my blade. however for riot to implement this they added the slow to the strike portion of Riposte. So its justified, just strangely.

You're reaching.

CaythelesMay 22, 20171 votes

Reaching?

Sèx Craved EveMay 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Reaching?

It's a different way of saying "grasping at straws".

If you don't get that one, I'm sorry.

SpookyNeedleMay 9, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Ok well im not defending fiora "Played her like once when she got reworked, dont care much for her, just here to shed some light". But when actual sword fighting a Riposte is a quick strike after a parry, the slow comes in at the parry part. if i were to parry your attack your sword or weapon would have a drawback in momentum from the force/angle it was pushed from with my blade. however for riot to implement this they added the slow to the strike portion of Riposte. So its justified, just strangely.

I was going to say this

Kelly KMay 9, 20171 votes

well does the slow only activate if youre attacking? if you arent attacking and she riposte youre atk then it shouldnt slow imo.

SpookyNeedleMay 9, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=zd n zed n zeddy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbyJmOOm,comment-id=000600010000,timestamp=2017-05-09T19:39:49.611+0000)

well does the slow only activate if youre attacking? if you arent attacking and she riposte youre atk then it shouldnt slow imo.

In that instance, it's like a beat attack, which is basically a parry but the enemy didn't attack. A beat attack is knocking your opponents blade out of the way. Which would make it harder to attack

ShahamutMay 9, 20178 votes

the attack speed slow is the one thing I hate about Fiora, because its like a security blanket. Didn't block the cc? no problem, HUGE attack speed slow means you wont be punished TOO hard. :/

Ekko ProjectMay 9, 20172 votes

{quoted}

the attack speed slow is the one thing I hate about Fiora, because its like a security blanket. Didn't block the cc? no problem, HUGE attack speed slow means you wont be punished TOO hard. :/

That's where I'm at with it as well

PermabannedGarenMay 9, 20175 votes

It's to allow her to have any chance of beating a Tryndamere I guess. And come late game even that attack speed slow won't help her.

Automated RivenMay 9, 20173 votes

Fiora beats trynd tho. If she knows how to kite and use her MS advantage. Trynd should simply be chasing her in circles while he dies.

PermabannedGarenMay 9, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbyJmOOm,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-05-09T02:50:30.262+0000)

Fiora beats trynd tho. If she knows how to kite and use her MS advantage. Trynd should simply be chasing her in circles while he dies.

In lane potentially.

In a 1v1 late game? No, Tryndamere stomps Fiora. Her ability to kite him in circles is nonexistent on a Tryndamere with 40% CDR.

A Basic IslandMay 9, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Tryndamere with 40% CDR.

...

PermabannedGarenMay 9, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Basic Island,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbyJmOOm,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-09T06:33:26.888+0000)

...

Are you aware that that was his meta build for a while?

item 3087 item 3158 item 3071 item 3153 item 3031 item 3046

With 10% coming from your runes. Though, this build is a bit less spicy now that black cleaver builds out of kindlegem and has less AD.

item 3087 / item 3046 item 3006 item 3153 item 3508 item 3031 item 3033

Been pondering this build lately, and think it has a better late game than the previous one due to having better damage and equal CDR. The mana passive on essence reaver is useless on Tryndamere, but the item is still 120% gold efficient without it and CDR is so strong on Tryndamere due to it bringing his E's cooldown to 5.3 seconds, meaning that if he auto attacks twice it effectively has a one second cooldown.

skyskee008May 9, 20171 votes

Cleaver still isn't bad. The health is nice so you don't get bursted to fastball (forcing R too early or missing R).

Also you're missing the point. A lot of trynd mains won't even build IEdge. That's because trynd does enough damage. The phage passive from cleaver is worth a lot.

Also your second build has too much crit.

PermabannedGarenMay 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Cleaver still isn't bad. The health is nice so you don't get bursted to fastball (forcing R too early or missing R).

Also you're missing the point. A lot of trynd mains won't even build IEdge. That's because trynd does enough damage. The phage passive from cleaver is worth a lot.

Also your second build has too much crit.

The health is a crutch for poor reaction-time IMHO.

Are a lot of Tryndamere mains still building cleaver? Uncle Trynd still does sometimes, but BoxerPete hasn't in ages. They both don't always build IE true, but BoxerPete appears to be going for a tankier Tryndamere build. Do you imagine that would be more effective than damage against Fiora?

How does my second build have too much crit when it has less crit than the first one? The second build gets 70% not counting his passive, the first gets 80%.

skyskee008May 11, 20171 votes

BoxerPete just builds whatever's he wants most games. He still says Cleaver is good. Quas also says Cleaver is good.

Also your second build has 7 items. Err... it also has 100% crit. Maybe my thing is messed up.

PermabannedGarenMay 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

BoxerPete just builds whatever's he wants most games. He still says Cleaver is good. Quas also says Cleaver is good.

Also your second build has 7 items. Err... it also has 100% crit. Maybe my thing is messed up.

My second build has shiv or PD as options; you get one or the other. I'm not saying you should get both, hence the / .

Automated RivenMay 9, 20171 votes

Sept fiora can safely itemize to counter trynd without sacrificing damage. Trynd can't do the same. Fiora can have tabis and randuins and out dps trynd with a 2 second cdr dash and massive heal. When trynd pops ult he gets kited. Even if he gets his chicken off he gets slowed by randuins. Then he runs away and gets chased down. He really has no tools late game unless fiora decides to play wack-a-mole with him.

PermabannedGarenMay 9, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbyJmOOm,comment-id=0003000000000001,timestamp=2017-05-09T18:46:20.325+0000)

Sept fiora can safely itemize to counter trynd without sacrificing damage.

If her randuin's and ninja tabi take the place of one of her offensive items this isn't true.

I assume this is the build you imagine she'd take against Tryndamere:

item 3074 item 3071 item 3047 item 3072 item 3143 item 3026

This build will allow her to resist Tryndamere's damage briefly, but she won't be able to burst him nor will she be able to out-DPS him.

Trynd can't do the same.

He doesn't need to. His ultimate makes him much tankier to Fiora's damage than the items Fiora built do for her against his.

Fiora can have tabis and randuins and out dps trynd

Can she? Because Tryndamere's burst and DPS with a full damage build will be much higher than Fiora's with three damage items. Tryndamere can shred actual tanks late game with a carry build, much less Fiora building a few armour items.

with a 2 second cdr dash

Something Tryndamere also has late game if he isn't CC'd. Also, Fiora would need 40% CDR to get a two second cooldown dash. How would you build her to maintain that level of CDR while still having sufficient tankiness against Tryndamere?

and massive heal.

Which is cut nearly in half by Tryndamere's mortal reminder. Tryndamere by comparison has much higher consistent healing due to his attack speed and much higher physical damage per auto.

When trynd pops ult he gets kited. Even if he gets his chicken off he gets slowed by randuins.

item 3153

Fiora can't kite Tryndamere. He has an effectively one second cooldown dash that has much longer range than Fiora's.

Then he runs away and gets chased down. He really has no tools late game unless fiora decides to play wack-a-mole with him.

He has plenty of tools in a 1v1. He has the damage to shred Fiora even if she opts for that armor bruiser build (which would also make her laughable against the enemy team's magic damage), he has comparable or higher 1v1 mobility, he has the luxury to opt into more items that give him mobility over his opponent (any crit/AS item, blade of the ruined king, black cleaver, etc.), he is tankier than she is due to his ultimate, he has better sustain, he's just a better duelist IMO.

Automated RivenMay 9, 20171 votes

meh probably switch out deaths dance for BT for the damage reduction (assuming I was purely building to counter trynd. You could easilly run stormraiders for the extra mobility. I typically run stormraiders against trynd if I am playing a carry because his mocking should becomes worthless at that point. Trynd cant get 40% cdr/70%crit and mortal reminder and BotRK unless you go a gimicky really fucking expensive build with essense reaver and i-edge. Fiora will reach the ability to duel trynd far earlier then trynd will be able to duel her. and if at that point trynd ever gets to six items then fiora messed up pretty hard.

Also assuming that fiora has GA and trynd doesnt (in your build suggestion) fiora would force trynd to ult in order to kill her. GA procks and then trynds ult wore off causing her to win the reingage. thats assuming she doesnt kite the crap out of him with her 2 second dash (which can be used to escape if utilized properly while retaining the 2 second cd) trynd also does not have a 1 second cd on his dash late game unless he is playing against someone who decided to play wackamole with him because he has to maintain 2 aa's per second in order to reach that 1 second cd dash.

It sounds good on paper but fiora has far more tools to outplay trynd then he does fiora, even in a late game 1v1. I would also likely itemize frozen mallot over GA because you can dash away while hitting trynd with your q getting a slow on him and gaining a ms buff increasing the kitability.

Also fiora can build to counter trynd without sacrificing damage because if you are building fiora full ad your asking to lose. Fiora needs to be able to live in order to fullfil her kit. so she would be itemizing defensively anyway. She can just alter the defensive items to fit her lane opponent.

IceKingChernobogMay 9, 20174 votes

same reason fiora's reposite parries summoner 3 and summoner 14

SasogwaMay 9, 20173 votes

The funniest is that Fiora's attack speed slow is stronger than max rank Nasus attack speed slow (but lasts shorter)

Akali is SO HOTMay 10, 20171 votes

Well it's not targeted so that's probably why

ThefrostyvikingMay 9, 20172 votes

To encourage the idea that you shouldn't just stand still and bash eachother.

Unless you play Tryndamere , then standing and bashing is totally fine.

It´s also optional for Jax .

MunchCrunchLunchMay 9, 20172 votes

so you cannot trade with her.

DunkinNoobsMay 9, 20172 votes

It's pretty much her only chance of outdueling targeted AS duelists like Irelia, Jax, Tryndamere, etc.

Fed by Snu SnuMay 9, 20173 votes

{quoted}

It's pretty much her only chance of outdueling targeted AS duelists like Irelia, Jax, Tryndamere, etc.

Can't have weaknesses, can we?

DunkinNoobsMay 9, 20174 votes

Wouldn't be much of a Grand Duelist if she auto-lost to point and click melee champs.

Fed by Snu SnuMay 9, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Wouldn't be much of a Grand Duelist if she auto-lost to point and click melee champs.

I'd call it ok to lose to the Grandmaster at Arms.

DunkinNoobsMay 9, 20171 votes

She still often does. Her AS slow on riposte only gives her a chance, and 1 that is very easy to mess up. Not only does she need to time it late enough to force the enemy to commit, but she has to make sure to hit it as well. It's not exactly hard to dodge her W if you're looking for it.

TheSingularityMay 10, 20171 votes

Fiora isn't a point and click melee champ?

DunkinNoobsMay 10, 20171 votes

No, she obviously isn't.

TheSingularityMay 10, 20171 votes

She point and clicks to proc vitals, to activate ult, to parry, to activate her E. The only thing that requires aiming is hitting someone with riposte.

Irelia is less point and click than fiora, trynd is as point and click while jax is more so.

DunkinNoobsMay 10, 20171 votes

You've never played Fiora, have you?

TheSingularityMay 10, 20171 votes

I have, only a few times. And while there's more to it than simply spamming right click, it all dumbs down to that single button in the end.

GreenBoÍMay 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

She point and clicks to proc vitals, to activate ult, to parry, to activate her E. The only thing that requires aiming is hitting someone with riposte.

Irelia is less point and click than fiora, trynd is as point and click while jax is more so.

LOL WTF... IRELIA LESS THAN POINT AND CLICK LOOL... She has 000 skill shots (except ult.. XD which is easy to target) All she does is simple W basic attacks... and you dont only point and click to get vitals, you need to walk tho... And yes im Fiora main..

TheSingularityMay 10, 20171 votes

Said below, while it may not be as simple as spamming right click (nothing ever is in the end, sometime I need to press a button). In the end it all comes back to right clicking allot unless you need to aim shit.

And I do recognise that there is more to it, just as there's slightly more to riven that rolling my brothers face across the keyboard. Otherwise everyone would be challenger fiora's, depending on who could click faster :P

Will admit looking back, irelia was a bad example, given her ult is far from vital to her success as opposed to fiora's vitals.

BisaknospMay 9, 20171 votes

so she has a way of dealing with adc's, trynda, irelia, jax and some other aa based champs

LuminierMay 9, 20171 votes

HOLY FUCK. So THAT'S why whenever she uses it, it feels like my champion won't ever get their basic attacks off, and she wins the 1v1. Jesus I thought my champion was bugged or something. That's dumb as hell.

JJI744May 10, 20171 votes

Let me blow your mind. Tryndamere has an AoE AD reduction on his W for 20/35/50/65/80. Thats half a BF sword at rank1, two full BF swords at rank 5. Yes, pressing W removes 2 BF swords worth of AD from everyone in range. And no, it is NOT tied to the slow, and will effect you regardless of wether or not you are facing towards him.

The DeckownerMay 10, 20171 votes

Wasn't that shit bugged for 4~5 seasons?

SohleksMay 10, 20171 votes

I don't think I've ever been hit by that thing once in my life.

But then again I spam ranged

Troll for TrumpMay 10, 20171 votes

Because Fiora's supposed to excel in dueling, the attack speed slow REALLY helps with that. One of the few champs who still has it, only because she's supposed to be the god tier 1v1er