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Who keeps redisgning champs and systems? They are bad at it.

CandiceuL·11/5/2018, 12:10:58 AM·1 votes·726 views

There are two fundamental rules to good pvp game design.

  1. It must be fun to play.
  2. It must be fun to play AGAINST.

Both of these things are the requirements for a good design if either of them are missing you have failed utterly to the point you either disable and fix the issue IMMEDIATELY, or quit your job because you will never be able to properly do it.

You dont wait till after some event to do this you just do it. You do it immediately not 12 months later.

Stealth has no counter play, no your shimmer does not count. Yes i can hit them IF I HAVE A SKILL SHOT. But what if my skill shot is a support skill like shyvana e meant for comboing. What if you have no skill shots? Like trynd or yi or pretty much every adc? What if you used everythgin to get them low and now you cant kill them and they get to leave not because they outplayed you but because there is NO WAY FOR YOU TO OUTPLAY THEM. When you have no counter play, you have a problem it means that it is frustrating not fun.

Akali can sit under your turret and take no damage from it while killing you. Yay you can see her shimmer but if you are an aa champ or you are someone who is not a nuke mage you lose the fight, not because she outplayed you, but because there is no counter play. You took a broken mechanic and made it worse. Fire whoever did that they should never design anything else.

Sion a tank who can cc combo you super easily and do MORE damage than a burst mage with almost no mana costs and an insane mana regeneration rate.

urgot. Rework him to have a weakness.

Counter play should ALWAYS exist, for everything. Not a gimmick, actual counter play. If it is not fun to fight against it is bad game design.

4 Comments

ZephyrDrake11/5/2018, 12:14:39 AM4 votes

Fun is a subjective term sorry but even the most "fun" champion in the game for you is frustrating and not "fun" at all for others. Counter play exists for everything you not wanting to use said counterplay is not anyone's issue but your own

ModWulf Helhammer11/5/2018, 12:27:51 AM3 votes

Having counterplay doesn't mean it's fun to play against.

Stealing a great comment I saw someone quote on a reddit thread:

I couldn't name 10 champion that I'd consider "fun to play against."

I'm not playing League to face 5 "fun to play against" champions in the enemy team, I play League to play my own fun to play champion and beat the 5 enemies with it.

I remember in one of the anti CertainlyT threads (probably Zoe related) one Riot champion designer came into the thread and said that while they care about the there being counterplay to every champion, they basically don't give a flying fuck about them "being fun to play against." It's almost a non factor in game design. Perceived "fun to play against" is to 95% dependent on the current strenght of a champion and how your class of champion matches up against the enemy class.

Think of it like this. You're Kassadin and you play against a Volibear Jungle who is doing jackshit in the current meta. You don't care about Voli, you will jump past him and kill his carries. Next time you see Voli you will think of yourself, "nice, I like playing against that useless pile of garbage."

Now, different patch, Voli has a 53% winrate, you play Twitch. He runs at you every fight. His base damage is high enough to solokill you while 2 people are peeling for you. You will hate everything about the champion. Q movespeed? Unfun. Point and click flip? Unfun. W damage? Unfun. Righteous Glory? Fuck that item. Passive? Heals him despite him already being a tanky fuck? Yeah thanks for that Riot.

Seriously, what do you even think of when you say unfun to play against? Like, if those champions are unfun, who is fun to play against? Lulu? Cho'Gath? Syndra? Alistar?

Source

Champions don't have to be fun to play against.