Mages leaves mid lane and ad assassin dominates.

tiwwz··19 votes·9,622 views

As a Silver ranked player my opinion might not mean anything or affect anyone in this matter. Especially riot who created the game for highly ranked competitive players and esport. I might not have understood the actual statistics of gameplay in a wide range, but from my experience, I am going to say that most mages such as zigg and kass don't do much in the current meta. It is undeniable that most assassins have one or more type of engage and escape abilities. With ad assassins, they are most likely to be relying on abilities to engage or do some sort of dmg to soften his target up. However, ap mages both sustain and burst mage ( which include ap assassins) relies mainly on abilities to burst or dmg their target. Comparing this to ad assassins who could also provide additional sustain dmg through their auto-attack, mages are simply kicked out of the mid lane. Those champion that had exceptionally long cast range or hard cc are driven toward the top and bot lane where their target is more easily to be kited as many top lane brawlers or tanks are, or as a support to help lock down their opponents for the ad carry.

Going back to the problem with zigg and kass they are two champ that I feel isn't fit for not just the current meta but also game in general. Zigg's w as an escape are simply not able to bring him out of an assassin's range. I do understand that zigg does do an incredible amount of dmg to many squishy champions in the late game, but losing in the early or mid-game is simply enough to lead his team to a defeat before the late game even comes around. Only the most skilled of zigg players are able to pull him off. Kass as the only other anti-mage champ in the game other than galio is doing much worst than galio is. Since kass are mainly played in the mid lane, and the amount of ap champion in each is ging down. It is easy to say that he is basically unplayable, with everyone just bypassing his passive and q's shield, while having less dmg on his auto-attack when trading with zed or any other ad assassins. From these examples, you could see that it does not support the reason why rioter's is creating new champions. Such a huge list of champions should have provided a large amount of team-composition which lead to exciting and fun games with many different variations. However, now the meta especially low ranked game (which does not include normal) are a playing ground of many players who specialized in assassin champions, but main zed and yasuo. Every game you would most likely be facing off zed or yasuo in the mid lane. Bot mostly consist of pyke and lucian, some time cait. Jungle is simply kayn with the top lane being to the lane with the most variation.

Of course, this is all seen through an eye of the most unskilled silver player's eyes, it is simply my opinions which doesn't matter much to many other who might be reading this if anyone reads it at all. And the stuff that I wrote down might have already differed from the title of this discussion. Before going back on track I would tell you a bit of myself. I am not one of those hardcore league of legend gamers whos players this league for most of their time or as their main form of entertainment. I mostly play for fun, but the reward in rank still attracts me which is why I also play rank. As the years go on my rank dropped from gold v in season 4 or 5 to silver iii in the current season which I could admit it is where my skill level is mostly since I play all sort of other games and do not practice any one specific champion. I am now mainly playing morde which get ban most of the time and I have to resolve in by picking some other champ. I am mostly being seen as a troll, but I am simply bad at this game. I miss most of my skill shots and my map awareness isn't that good, combine with my really poor reflex I am simply not built for playing fast pace game like league. So yeah, people reading this might be saying that I shouldn't complain and just be better at the game and I will happily accept that suggestion. But as a game design major/art major I am simply frustrated with the way stuff goes. I understand that balancing such a large game with this many variants is impossible to please everyone and the game isn't showing a huge spike in win rate for many ad assassins in the overall statistic. I know this discussion now looks like a complain letter and it was long and no one wants to read it. I am not a technical player, I don't calculate every number that might be affecting my overall dmg and I surely don't know the overall win-rate of mages right now in the game. Also, this is a team communicating game which requires players to work together I am not saying that teamwork doesn't affect the outcome of each game and it is all about the ad assassin and mages.

I think it is time to wrap it up right here since I don't have much to say. I am just gonna say that balancing a game is hard and I do appreciate each champion and new mechanic that rioters bring to this game. However, I am just here to give feedback base on the perspective of the players, not any other players, but a causal silver ranked player. Knowing this discussion might not have much chance of getting to the top where a rioter would read it I am just gonna say thank you to those that are willing to read this.

30 Comments

huhndog11 votes

True. I'm very tired of almost ever game having either Zed , Talon , and Yasuo mid

5050BS4 votes

It use to be that Mid lane was AP 90% of the time. Top being AD and or Tank

Now with AD Mid being most of the time team comps are so much AD.

Mages just dont have a good place in the game.

Daddy Ants10 votes

No, Mages are not "leaving mid lane" at all.

Using u.gg as my source, here is the top 15 mid laners in Patch 9.14

https://i.gyazo.com/89465c06ba91ef6e2eea85e7a8b3ea75.png

7/15 are AP Mages.

 

Would you like to know why AD Assassin's always pop off in Silver?

Mid Laners seem to be allergic to buying item 3191.

Seeker's Armguard when stacked provides enough armor to defend you against the Lethality on 2 full completed Lethality items for the entire game.

item 3142 item 3147 will scale throughout the game to provide a total of 39 armor penetration at level 18.

Seeker's provides 45 armor for 1,100 gold and 30 farm (which doesn't take long considering most mages have giga waveclear)

item 3142 item 3147 is 5,800 gold worth of items.

 

Xerath just does what Ziggs can do but 10x better.

Why would you ever pick Ziggs if you can pick Xerath?

 

The only thing Ziggs has going for him right now is his Tower execute ability.

He's outclassed in poke by champions like Xerath, Lux etc.

He's outclassed in waveclear by champions like Xerath, Anivia, Morgana etc.

Lauchmelder7 votes

{quoted}

No, Mages are not "leaving mid lane" at all.

Using u.gg as my source, here is the top 15 mid laners in Patch 9.14

https://i.gyazo.com/89465c06ba91ef6e2eea85e7a8b3ea75.png

7/15 are AP Mages.

And there's no problem if less than half of those champions are mages when the majority of all midlane champions (based on who usually gets played there, discarding off-meta picks) are AP based?

JackMcCarry2 votes

I mean, there's 3 AD picks in that list, 2 AD assassins and 1 AD fighter, the rest are AP based Out of the 15 top picks 3 are AD. 7 mages, 3 AP assassins and 2 AP fighters.

Malix Farwin1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, there's 3 AD picks in that list, 2 AD assassins and 1 AD fighter, the rest are AP based Out of the 15 top picks 3 are AD. 7 mages, 3 AP assassins and 2 AP fighters.

Your math doesnt make any sense let alone your logic. Simple math if you think 7 + 3 + 2 = 15 than you have issues. Second we are talking specifically mages, not AP assassins. Third there are mages in the top 15 who actually perform better as support than mid(lux and morg). This is what we mean by forced into the bot lane. A lot of those mages at the top get beat out by the Assassins at the top as well.

Thats the problem with just plain posting rankings and saying "welp mages are just fine", they lack context.

JackMcCarry1 votes

Your math doesnt make any sense let alone your logic. Simple math if you think 7 + 3 + 2 = 15 than you have issues.

Are you slow? Do i need to count with you? Or is your brain selectively ignoring the fact i also mentioned there are 3 AD aswell? So lets count together: 3 AD champs 7 Mages 3 AP assassins 2 AP fighters 3+7+3+2 = 15 top champs in mid. Did we clear that out? Okay.

Second we are talking specifically mages, not AP assassins.

No the thread is how "Mages leaves mid lane and ad assassin dominates" If by dominate you mean having 3 viable picks (actually just 2 since aatrox is a fighter) while Mages have 7 than your perception of what "dominating" means is flawed and biased. Also, the only issues here are your reading issues, twice now.

Third there are mages in the top 15 who actually perform better as support than mid(lux and morg).

So the fact that some of these top mages preform better botlane is a problem because? Having more options for lane viability is bad? Yea, good logic, those AD assassins dominate midlane while Mages dominate both midlane AND support. You're also ignoring the fact Riot literally just nerfed support lux while buffing her midlane.

Thats the problem with just plain posting rankings and saying "welp mages are just fine", they lack context.

No actually, what lacks context is saying AD assassins dominate midlane and Mages are leaving midlane without giving actual evidence, and at the same time - ignoring ACTUAL statistics and deflecting them with meaningless excuses like "oh having 7 mages doesnt count because 2 of them are also good bot". But yea, hard data lacks context.

Try reading slowly so this time you wont twist my simple math into a mistake.

The thigh guy5 votes

{quoted}

No, Mages are not "leaving mid lane" at all.

Using u.gg as my source, here is the top 15 mid laners in Patch 9.14

https://i.gyazo.com/89465c06ba91ef6e2eea85e7a8b3ea75.png

7/15 are AP Mages.

 

Would you like to know why AD Assassin's always pop off in Silver?

Mid Laners seem to be allergic to buying item 3191.

Seeker's Armguard when stacked provides enough armor to defend you against the Lethality on 2 full completed Lethality items for the entire game.

item 3142 item 3147 will scale throughout the game to provide a total of 39 armor penetration at level 18.

Seeker's provides 45 armor for 1,100 gold and 30 farm (which doesn't take long considering most mages have giga waveclear)

item 3142 item 3147 is 5,800 gold worth of items.

 

Xerath just does what Ziggs can do but 10x better.

Why would you ever pick Ziggs if you can pick Xerath?

 

The only thing Ziggs has going for him right now is his Tower execute ability.

He's outclassed in poke by champions like Xerath, Lux etc.

He's outclassed in waveclear by champions like Xerath, Anivia, Morgana etc.

Except with the amount of damage being put out, and the total worthlessness of armor in this game, building seekers feel like shit. Oh cool. You now have 130 armor at most. Now remove 24% of it because black cleaver is in EVERY game, and another 25% because lul last whisper then shred off the lethality armor reduction and oh look. Back to true damage.

Durzaka1 votes

Assassins arent building last whispter and black cleaver. That is everyone else. Assassins are building Lethality (a couple do build BC).

Hes talking about countering the assassins as a mage, not countering ALL AD as a mage. Seekers does a hell of a lot to help lane/fight against an assassin.

The thigh guy3 votes

{quoted}

Assassins arent building last whispter and black cleaver. That is everyone else. Assassins are building Lethality (a couple do build BC).

Hes talking about countering the assassins as a mage, not countering ALL AD as a mage. Seekers does a hell of a lot to help lane/fight against an assassin.

All assassins are building last whisper at some point.

And you seem to be ignoring that one black cleaver benefits your entire team. Not just you. So the assassin may not have the cleaver, doesn’t mean they aren’t benefiting from someone else having it. P

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

People don't start off the game with black cleaver and last whisper isn't built until late late game

The thigh guy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EVef97gW,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2019-07-25T19:02:48.163+0000)

People don't start off the game with black cleaver and last whisper isn't built until late late game

And people don’t start the game with a seekers either soooooo?

Titanium707 votes

Yikes, you proof the exact opposite:

Out of Top6 (S+) you have 4 Assassins and 2 Anti-Assassins, GREAT META!

There is not A SINLGE Champion on this list that's neither an Assassin OR works exceptionally well against Asassins! Think about that!

Voluug137 votes

Ahri is way too close to AP assassin, same as Zoe. Malz is literally, even after massive nerfs, one of the few remaining anti-assassin picks. Vlad is an AP fighter that is being played mid specifically because assassin meta. Cass was literally buffed so she could survive assassins a bit better. That leaves Lux and Morgana, with Morgana also being a strong anti-dive and Lux just being overtuned because lol skins.

Also, way to hide the pickrates! Because Zed is so banned yet still has several times the pickrate of most ''mage'' midlaners. He has close to 10 times the pickrate of Morgana, 4 times the pickrate of Cass, double that of Malz/Diana/Vlad/Lux.

**Literally the only mages on the top 15 of midlane are the few mages specialized on countering Zed, or AP fighters that can survive Zed. **

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

TheDogIsABomb7 votes

{quoted}

No, Mages are not "leaving mid lane" at all.

Using u.gg as my source, here is the top 15 mid laners in Patch 9.14

https://i.gyazo.com/89465c06ba91ef6e2eea85e7a8b3ea75.png

7/15 are AP Mages.

Don't say '7 out of 15 are ap' as if its an 'aha, I got you with my logic' moment, that's only because there are more ap characters than there are ad. If you don't count Qiyana since she's still new and people haven't learned how to play her well, then THERE ARE ONLY TWO AD ASSASSINS THAT EXIST IN THE ENTIRE GAME TO BEGIN WITH.

AND BOTH OF THEM STILL MANAGE TO CRACK THE TOP FUCKING TEN MIDLANERS LIST AHEAD OF THE ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF AP CHARACTERS OUT THERE.

U R Good At Game3 votes

{quoted}

Don't say '7 out of 15 are ap' as if its an 'aha, I got you with my logic' moment, that's only because there are more ap characters than there are ad. If you don't count Qiyana since she's still new and people haven't learned how to play her well, then THERE ARE ONLY TWO AD ASSASSINS THAT EXIST IN THE ENTIRE GAME TO BEGIN WITH.

AND BOTH OF THEM STILL MANAGE TO CRACK THE TOP FUCKING TEN MIDLANERS LIST AHEAD OF THE ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF AP CHARACTERS OUT THERE.

The Assassins that still lane tend to beat mages except for a couple control mages, what do you want? That's like being mad your jinx lost to a zed...

Also there are a shit ton of assassins but where are they? JUNGLE because they cant compete in mid so your logic is flawed. Nocturn, Blue Kayne, Khazix, Rengar, Master Yi, Shaco, Wukong(debatable), pantheon (debatable), etc. Then you have the AP assassins as well: Nidalee, Elise, Evelynn, etc.

If assassins always beat mages all those assassins would be mid but there not.

Disembark4 votes

Based on pick rate and not win rate. In terms of win rate mages dominate.

https://i.ibb.co/CtZPWsK/2-E34-E48-A-7038-4-FB7-8-CCB-FD21-FC5-E9-E57.png

First AD assassin is rank 14 behind 9 mages. Stats only matter if they support ur narrative tho.

5050BS3 votes

Lux out classes all Mages. She is the safest mage in the game. She has a massive two target root

Shield and AOE slow and a Long Range Ult and her 100-0 Combo is two button click.

Riot really needs to nerf the crap out of her.

Sillae1 votes

100-0 combo being 2 clicks is if she gets fed and if you don't have MR. Otherwise, she's weaving Autos while using abilities.

Also Neeko's way safer than her.

Stealth, clone (which can block skillshots!), Movement Speed increase, Morgana-Level root that goes through multiple targets, AOE that hits three times, MASSIVE AOE stun with MASSIVE damage, oh and also burst on every third auto that at one point was so overbearing Neeko adc was actually meta.

Zerefette2 votes

Ahri and Vlad are assassins.

Summoner SpeII1 votes

qiyanna is broken and not on your list? low elo players dont know how to abuse her and her damage and utility is completely off charts.

Smyrage3 votes

I don't want to nitpick, but Ahri is borderline between a mage and an AP assassin. Same is true for Vlad, who is borderline between a mage and an AP fighter.

Though I must say that while I agree with midlane is dominated by assassins and it's not really a good thing, on the other hand you mentioned Kassadin, who can actually play well against assassins (especially against AP assassins). Kassadin is just not meta, because his laning phase is goddamn awful, but the easier matchups for him are assassins pre-lvl6, after that and the first item it doesn't matter.

As for who is the better, Xerath or Ziggs, I wouldn't say Xerath so early. In fact... the two play kind of differently. The only similarity between the two that they are also poke mages, but Xerath specialises way too much on poke, while Ziggs also has a zoning tool and a disengage tool. Shortly: if Xerath fails to land the stun on a hard engage, he is good as dead, while Ziggs has more opportunities to defend himself. Ziggs is safer.

Zerefette2 votes

Vlad is an assassin, with 4000hp, try to change my mind.

preternatural2 votes

orianna not even on teh list. whose mid lane is this bro Aatrox????? RIOT why is this a thing?

Zerefette1 votes

Orianna is close to be dead by a long time, she needs a kit refresh.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

to be honest Assassins are not that good late game unless fed but their early game can be very strong and since games end so fast of course they dont fall off its only in higher level of play that you start noticing assassins weakness

Summoner SpeII1 votes

i dont mind champions that take actual skill to play, like talon, and even though that sounds sarcastic i actually believe that talon takes skill to play, and there is a massive discrepancy in game knowledge between a good talon can get snowball and close game with his lead and pressure on enemy jungler, and a talon who does well in lane and then gets hard outscaled mid to late game, but boosted monkeys that play aurellion sol, the most triggering thing there is in this game. After the asol buffs I feel extreme frustration in the enemy asol skill lvl being several tiers below me but he is gifted a win because the roaming and power of asol takes no skill to play at all. Dopa has talked about asol mains being the most boosted champion there is.

HeresyHorus1 votes

AD champs (Fighters, Assassins, ADCs) >>> Mages mid (except a very few).

Their damage is reliable and their autoes have scaling base damage + 100%bAD and don't have CDs or costs.

Most of them have good CCs.

Most of them have good mobility.

Most of them are tankier than Mages.

They have better items.

Full AD comps are not an auto loss like how full AP comps are.

Many of them have good AoE

Why pick Mages ? AoE is the only thing they have more than AD champs. but most AoE skills are not instant and with how common mobility is and with how tenacity can stack, AoE is overrated for no reason.

It is much better to instantly kill 2 vital targets reliably than do chip and unreliable damage to all enemies without killing anyone then be a sitting duck because of CDs.

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