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@Riot What's the big deal with these Shyv changes?!

WinTheWarOnPants·7/18/2017, 10:42:37 PM·16 votes·1,654 views

> Flame Breath (E) [New] Now has AD scaling: 30% tAD on damage 30% tAD on Dragon form damage 10% tAD on scorched earth damage Dragon form damage changed from 100-200 to 100-160

Ok, now everyones favorite half dragon is not in the best spot right now(poor thing can't abuse armor pen), but she's not doing horrible either. Now this is most certainly a buff too AD shyv(something that's about as rare as AP shyv now), but AP shyv is losing a whopping 40 base dmg on her E. This is after her both her AP scaling was gutted(from 60 to 30%) and the functionality was reduced by making it both stop after hitting champions(which can really screw her over in both teamfights and in lane when trying to last hit) and reducing the projectile speed. The only thing keeping AP shyv alive is item 3146 and it's(honestly OP) active which gives her another spells worth of dmg in her burst rotation. I know AP shyv is not the most popular thing in the game, but it's the only way i play her. Spitting fireballs for massive dmg is always what i wanted from her as a champ and is the only part of her kit that makes her feel like a dragon IMO.

With that being said their are 3 ways to approach this IMO.

  1. Buff her AD scaling like what is on the PBE(honestly i would buff it more to like 60%) and change her E to physical dmg. This would still keep her Magic/physical combo dmg that she is somewhat known for(her biggest weakness right now) on her W and E% dmg, but let her use AD more effectively.
  2. Buff Her AD scaling and change ALL of her dmg to physical. This will likely need to serious tweaking, since it will give her access to all of the(way overturned IMO) AD/armor pen itemization that has been wrecking the game the season.
  3. Revert the nerfs to her E scalling, Give her a higher tick rate on her W(honestly a pretty huge QoL buff that should have been done a LONG time ago), and give her an actual passive. This is my pref as an AP shyv player, since it's a buff to both play-styles without being massive changes.

The changes on the PBE are going to hurt her build diversity even more than it is already. Even after this added ratio i can't see it changing her main build which only has 35 AD in it. and just so we're clear, if you build her most common/highest winrate build right now(item 1416 item 3065 item 3111 item 3748 item 3742 item 3193 ) this is a straight up nerf! in exchange for 10.5 AD scaling you lose 40 dmg. In order for Shyv to make up for the lost base dmg in her E she will need to build 134 AD! or item 3074 item 3156 (or their equivalent AD) just to get the SAME dmg she had on her E before. My mistake i was thinking bonus AD scaling and not "total". This means she needs 74 AD lvl 1 and 25 AD @ lvl 18 which makes it a very small buff(6.2 dmg at lvl 18)Seeing as she obviously doesn't have the luxury of building those items(or she would be building them right now), this change is a huge nerf to AP shyvana with little to no change to regular shyv. Please don't let the AP flame spitting dragon dream die! Stop dragon abuse today! http://i.imgur.com/5xvKs98.png

42 Comments

Subject 57/18/2017, 11:04:40 PM4 votes

Shyvana is in like the worst spot possible right now. Her passive is worth a mountain dragon and 1/3 a item 1029 if you actually DO get the dragons. Then again, why not just pick Nunu?

Look: item 1029 item 1033

Passive: 100 Gold for the 5 Armor Passive: 90 gold for the 5 MR

So Shyvana's passive Stat stick is literally worth 190 gold, this gets multiplied each time she does take a dragon. Okay, this isn't a big deal right - at least she does 10% increased damage to other dragons???

She's pretty much a troll champion right now, and I play some really retarded champions in roles they should never be in - I like diversity, right? But this bitch is completely useless. No CC - can't even duel and she sure as hell isn't tanky - she's a bruiser that dreams of becoming a tank.

Ahristocats7/18/2017, 11:57:09 PM3 votes

i like that her E is being buffed, promoting dodging skillshot without buffing stats and promoting stat-checking

WoonStruck7/18/2017, 11:03:36 PM2 votes

AP shyv isn't a thing.

It may be 'fun' to some people, but Riot has no obligation to balance AP Shyv when that's not how she's intended to be played.

Its unfortunate, but that's the truth. She's no different from AP Jax, AP Ez, AP Tryn, AP Maokai, etc etc.

The mindless buffs when she's not in a terrible place is what people should be worried about. She's just going to get nerfed later for it.

Hexs Fortune7/18/2017, 11:09:38 PM2 votes

I feel XinZhao does her job better

LankPants7/19/2017, 4:44:00 AM2 votes

I don't like this change one bit. I don't think Riot should be moving Shyvana in a caster direction at all, she should stay a fairly AA centric champion.

If they're going to add a ratio like this I'd prefer it to be something like "Shyvana's auto attacks against targets marked by her E deal 2.5%+(1% per 200 bonus AD) max HP damage.

Mahavishnu737/19/2017, 4:48:13 PM2 votes

I think there's an itemization hole that hurts her. I posted about a suggested "AP" juggernaut item a while back and it got shat on.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/FHYsJ1lm-new-ap-juggernaut-item

Basically it's for Mpen and stickiness, and gives a token amount of AD & AP.

Doseqis7/18/2017, 11:01:17 PM2 votes

Keep in mind the Ad scaling is TOTAL AD so the 134 AD also comes from base AD as well so after like one AD item you are doing more then old version

TheHappyReaperz7/18/2017, 10:55:22 PM2 votes

I feel, in order to deal damage, one must build damage. While the AP scalings should be kept, I don't see a problem with her having to build more damage, in order to get some burst.

DunkinNoobs7/19/2017, 8:16:55 AM1 votes

It's a total AD ratio, so you only need 133 AD to break even on the E damage. I can't remember the last game I had less than 133 AD by lvl 13, but I can think of a ton that I had a fair bit more than that. The ratio nerf only applies to her Dragon E as well; normal E is just a straight buff, as is the DOT on the dragon E. Not to mention that this comes with a free 2.5 armor at lvl 1 as well, which makes a big difference early in the jungle on a champ with no natural sustain.

Adorable chibi Shyvana, btw.