What if ADCs/marksmen had less reliable damage? (pretty long post)

yay nibbers··5 votes·260 views

Now before I get into anything, I'm not going to suggest we re-introduce Dodge. And yes I'm aware Crit theoretically makes their damage less reliable because RNG, but when every ADC is building 80-100% crit I don't think "rng" is enough of a limiting factor. The problem I think is that their damage comes from ranged, point-and-click, generally unavoidable auto attacks. As it is right now, they get to sit back relatively safely behind their big ol' support/top/jungle/etc and dish out HUGE DPS that you can't juke or dodge, this makes their damage easily the most reliable on any team and while I see value in that there can also be a lot of frustration that comes from that. Not to mention, because of their relative safety and reliability they can abuse items meant for entirely different roles and often enough even get those items nerfed (did someone say Sterak's Gage? Lethality?)

Taking everything into consideration, I came up with two possible solutions to the frustration that is playing against ADCs. I don't know that they're the best options but I figure they're interesting enough to put out there. What I suggest are the following:

  1. Give them predictable low points. One way I'd think to do this is to give all marksmen an ammo system like Jhin or Graves. And before anyone jumps down my throat, I don't mean they should have a measly 4 or 5 shots before reloading. What I was thinking is all ADCs could be given ammo with a generic clip size, one big enough to still do a fair bit of damage in a fight before having to reload and perhaps special clip sizes and interactions for certain ADCs. For example, most ADCs could have a clip size of 10-15 shots or so, but then Draven might have just two shots but recieves a free ammo whenever he catches an axe.

  2. Turn ranged auto attacks into skillshots that only hit the auto-attack target. And I don't mean something slow like Ahri's Q or whatever, think more like Twitch's ult but single-target. The shots would ignore anything between the ADC and their target (except obvious things like Wind Wall or Braum's shield) like normal, but now they would be dodge-able with blinks, dashes, EXTREME speed, etc.

Personally I think my second suggestion of turning ranged auto-attacks into a sort of pseudo-skillshot might be the better way to go because it maintains more or less the same ADC gameplay but adds just enough counterplay to potentially make them less frustrating to deal with. An issue with it however is it doesn't necessarily fix the issue of them abusing every other item that happens to have AD on it. What my ammo suggestion does in that regard is give you windows to jump on them without getting DPS burst down if you can't instantly appear on top of them. With ADCs having access to more and more defensive stats to go with their offensive stats, their usual weakness of being made of tissue paper is slowly fading and it's especially bad since assassins were made to have much slower burst, giving them a clear window of down-time could be a way to combat their increasing durability and potentially make teamfights more interesting for both sides.

I'd like to hear your guys' thoughts on these ideas and appreciate anyone taking the time to actually read this instead of skimming it over and getting mad because I dared suggest all ADCs be crippled with 2 ammo like Graves (I didn't, obviously). Let me know if anything I wrote is at all confusing, I'm not always the best at presenting my ideas.

11 Comments

UnboundHades2 votes

if you make them run on ammo and dodgeable(basically graves) then they will need buffs to compensate for these major nerfs which in the long run will make late game adcs even scarier along with making jhin and graves lose their unique feeling

HeresyHorus2 votes

they will need buffs to compensate for these major nerfs

Sure, cuz having Syndra R on a targeted auto with 0 CD, 0 cast time, 0 resources and can life steal is balanced to begin with, so when u nerf that shit u must get damage compensations !!!

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

yay nibbers1 votes

Thanks for pointing that out, I knew I forgot to mention something in my point. Anyway, yeah they would and I think that's fine, what's important is how they're buffed to compensate. However, I'm not sure I agree with the term "major nerfs," I think if combined with the right buffs it could be a relatively minor power shift (though it's obviously a pretty big change).

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

I don't think you really understand what the ADC role is supposed to do.

I'll I've you a hint: they're not about unreliability

yay nibbers2 votes

I think you missed my point, I'm not saying they should be totally unreliable I'm saying they might be too reliable as they are and that toning down their reliability just a bit could be beneficial. Give my suggestions a read, I think they're pretty fair ideas.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

ADCs are the definition of relatable damage. That's the entire point of them: reliable damage that can dealt from the safety of range.

And I did read your suggestions. They're horrible. This isn't Smite, this isn't Overwatch, it's League. You want to aim your attacks or reload everything, go play those.

yay nibbers2 votes

I know that's what ADCs are, and I'm saying that's maybe not exactly a particularly healthy design. That's pretty much the point of my post.

Who said anything about aiming? The aim of my ideas is to bring a bit more counterplay to their practically guaranteed damage without drastically changing their gameplay, which they wouldn't really besides adding momentary downtime in the case of the ammo system.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Nicely elaborated! And I concur with both, though not at the same time. Some champions would be more inclined for ammo systems, while others could have some mechanic around it, such as how draven spins his axes. Though it's silly looking seeing an arrow or bullet bank 90 degrees in midair, it's also frustrating knowing you wasted a vital skill for something you couldn't do anything about.

yay nibbers1 votes

Yeah I wouldn't expect Riot to implement both ideas at the same time, if they were to even consider anything like what I'm suggesting in the first place. Personally I think the ammo system idea is more interesting but turning ranged auto-attacks in pseudo-skillshots would probably be easier because it wouldn't take as much time to adapt to the change (not to mention it'd likely be easier for Riot to implement).

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

I agree, though it'd still leave some things feeling arbitrary. Graves is holding a double barrel shotgun, makes sence he's got two shells; but others like ashe or caitlyn?

Critmaster Garen1 votes

i agree somewhat with the op, but theyd all need their individual mechanics to make the marksmen really different from one another.

Ezreal is an example of an adc who has to consistently hit his q to maximize his dps.

Draven although overtuned is gated by his ability to catch axes. if you can deny him by impairing his movement or displacing him, youll reduce his dps which creates counterplay.

the same needs to be done with more marksmen in my opinion. they all need individual mechanics that create counterplay to their auto attacks.

worst example being Vayne who has absolutely no ability in her kit you can play around. her entire kit is a bundle of passive steroids.

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