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This game has went downhill, and so has Riot.

Blast Me Daddy··144 votes·5,674 views

I hate the preseason so much, games are decided in 10 minutes just because all the new items, adc reworks are all fucking unreal. I'm gonna be honest here I think league is a great game and all, but ever since the release of season 5 I think it just went all downhill, Riot is trying to make us play this stupid LCS meta. I feel like they are trying to make this game way too competitive and punishing for every god damn player that fucks up, like if I give a kill in the jungle, I am completely screwed there is absolutely nothing I can do now. Their jungler can just come and fuck me up anytime and take my buffs because I am super behind, and yes there are times like where I should have been aware of the invade on my end, but most of the time its because of something really stupid and you shouldn't be punished for the rest of the game. Personally this may sound dumb, but I think Riot should make a new server for people who play the game to have fun and not just try hard every game and be forced to play their meta its so stupid that we need to be forced to play the game their way and not our own how we have fun. The game shouldn't be so snowbally and the chances of having a fun game that can be turned around is like 1/4000 games it is unreal how low the chances are of playing an actual fun game. All and all the preseason is stupid adc's are way too strong right now and are unreal. It's amazing how Riot still has pbe, because everything that people think just goes right to the trash can and is completely forgotten about. I understand the game should have some change, but season 3 was probably the most balanced season imo and shouldn't have been changed so much, in season 3 there wasn't a time where no game was able to come back and favor you. Riot is also completely ignoring on how they even got popular and think the players are just useless and they don't give a rats ass about us at all, they just want money. Riot never cares about how we think of the game it's only for the pro players. And they make way too much change and when the community hates it, they will never remove it because of their ego is too damn high to even care what we think just because they put time into it they force us to use what they make. Thank you for reading this and if you agree on what I say please leave an up-vote. Thank you :)

87 Comments

fukimissHarambe10 votes

You have to remember that tencent owns riot, if you were here (or even just have heard about) early on in league riot was a kind god giving away IP boosts and spending a lot of resources for cool holiday events. Now, there is no way to tell how much of what they are doing is Tencent and how much is acually rito but I can say pretty certainly that it isn't all riot.

Kaizokumo1 votes

{quoted}

You have to remember that tencent owns riot, if you were here (or even just have heard about) early on in league riot was a kind god giving away IP boosts and spending a lot of resources for cool holiday events. Now, there is no way to tell how much of what they are doing is Tencent and how much is acually rito but I can say pretty certainly that it isn't all riot.

Thas fucking great, tencent is a good company, which is why their stock prices dropped 90% in one year from 500 to 100 something, great decisions. Essentially cipotle burritoes are worth more than they are.Braum

Fisk10 votes

Ok, season three was not balanced. Can we remember darius, diana, hecarim, zyra, elise and all of the other champions. Olaf going from absolute god tier to "olaf'd". Season 5's tank meta was balance. That is the MOST balanced time we have had so far. And this is the preseason. Shit gets wonky. It happens. Be patient and move on. People just get upset when things change from "the good ole days" but they have to recognize that its not even necessarily true and change is sometimes just different, not better nor worse.

Xela Syab4 votes

season 3 wasn't that bad and they nerfed listed champs pretty quick. dude this isn't normal, this isn't fun and that's what playing video games is about. Rip League :( It's gonna take atleast 4 large patches to fix this.

AbrahamBaconham3 votes

Holy crap dude its preseason, cool your jets.

DoktorKaiser1 votes

Its not fucking preseason, 25% of the season is gone already wake up !!! Its time to bring the nerf bat back, I am tired of waiting months and months for some cancers to get nerfed...

Jamaree9 votes

Game shouldn't be balanced around the lower end of the spectrum.

Serenity Now31 votes

Well, arguably the lower end is where the revenue stream is. The game shouldn't alienate it either.

Jamaree10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serenity Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E52aeUMZ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-15T14:08:22.196+0000)

Well, arguably the lower end is where the revenue stream is. The game shouldn't alienate it either.

It is impossible to balance the game for every spectrum, things that low elo QQ about at times are vastly different then what high elo QQ about. Attention should be given to the lower end, but balance shouldn't be based around the lower end in the slightest because they are the weakest when it comes to game knowledge and skill. And 90 percent of the time the lower ends means of "balance" is to say gut it until it isn't a thing anymore, which contradicts the point of balance, but no one ever looks that far into it.

Blast Me Daddy13 votes

The thing is I am a higher elo than you are, but you are pretty much saying that I am the lower end? I have played this game for a very long time and I have the game knowledge to know that this isn't fun, and majority of the community hate the preseason, yes they can't make everyone happy, but when you have a large portion of the community yelling about this it's a pretty big problem. Is it not?

Jamaree4 votes

{quoted}

The thing is I am a higher elo than you are, but you are pretty much saying that I am the lower end?

Not what I said. What I said is this game shouldn't be balanced around the lower spectrum of the game, which is where the largest part of the community is, bronze and silver players who are far more quick to cry OP OP rather then learn and adapt. Yeah, at times they are right about balance, but more often then not their ideas of how to balance the game is nerf it to the point where it isn't viable, then forget about it. However best believe that there will be a sheep mindset after the fact when the champion gets nerfed begging for buffs which will then be rallied behind until they do, until they get whined about again. It happens over and over and over again, yet no one takes a step back and looks at it yet wonders why Riot doesn't magically perfectly balance the game. No one takes a step back and consider what is going on. It is Pre Season, no, the crit thing as it is isn't balanced, that is what happens in pre season, new things get added and changed to spice things up, for better or for worst, and if you keep things the same, you have the problem of what was going on in season 2 where people were whining the game was getting stale because everything was the exact same, but once again, NO one remembers that part of any scene or acknowledges it.

I'm getting off point however, but my point remains true, the game shouldn't be balanced around the lower end just because it is the biggest spectrum because then you get champions who aren't even all that bad or were only a tad bit too strong getting nerfed then plummeting into a corner into having an abysmal win rate or not viable based off what said side would whine about.

Extvia2 votes

That and shit's likely gonna get balanced before Preseason is over anyway.

Transgressor4 votes

Like LeeSin and J4's disgusting jungle domination got "balanced before preseason is over" last year? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA -gasp- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAA

Nunya Bezwacks1 votes

basically he is crying that 95% of the game wan't nerfs while the 3% in diamond masters and challanger say no there for the 3% should get what ever they want. ignore the majority who just want to have fun to ruin the game and listen to the 1% that play at pro level.

The Red Warden7 votes

The pro-scene is actually only 0.1% of the player base, making it even more outrageous that the game is being based around them. Riot's trend of making the game more and more centered around the LCS probably won't change until their profit margin's drop by 10%, which judging by most peoples dislike of the pre-season isn't that far way.

Kaisha1 votes

They'll be lucky if they only lose 10%.

Chicken4dinner2 votes

Not likely, the people quitting league had decided ages ago when the game started to grow stale and instead on improving core gameplay Riot had just given it a shiny new wrapper and distracted people with the pro scene...

I honestly think that the successful formula for the game was a fluke

Fazuzu1 votes

I saw the ruin coming as soon as they began to show too much interest into the nerds that think they're actually playing some sort of 'sport' along with the even bigger ones that 'look up' to those overpaid nerds. let the hate from the nerds with no other achievement than scripting league pour forth and fill me

Valenten2 votes

I dont believe that the majority of the community dislike this tbh its usually only the vocal minority that are super vocal about stuff like this. Thats been proven time and time again the people who enjoy stuff wont complain about it. Unless you have like 10 million people saying that they hate it you cant even say that the "majority" of the community hate it.

Not trying to defend Riot here cause there are some things that need to be tuned down and changed ofc but to say the majority of people hate the changes seems kind of silly without polling millions of players. Doing it on here or Reddit wont do anything because there are a ton of players who dont use the reddit or the forums. Just my 2 cents tho I personally enjopy the fast paced games sure the snowballing sucks and im sure Riot will tune down things to where they need to be just takes time like any other pre season changes.

Zenthon Prime3 votes

Generally, when over 90% of Reddit AND Boards agree on something, it can be considered a majority opinion. Reddit and Boards generally have different circlejerks (The Lee Sin one from late S4 and early S5 was Boards-exclusive, for example), so when everyone's complaining about the same thing.....it's bad. Really bad.

Valenten2 votes

again the league subreddit only has 700k users and i can promise you that not all of them actually post. You cant say that something is majority unless you actively poll every user of the game then go through the answers and then look at the hard numbers. Just cause 2 places agree doesnt mean anything other than people are angry about something (which as I mentioned before Riot will work on just like previous preseasons).

Keevalroy1 votes

When Reddit is turning against Benevolent Ruler Rito and are unhappy with them, things just got serious.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

{quoted}

It is impossible to balance the game for every spectrum, things that low elo QQ about at times are vastly different then what high elo QQ about. Attention should be given to the lower end, but balance shouldn't be based around the lower end in the slightest because they are the weakest when it comes to game knowledge and skill. And 90 percent of the time the lower ends means of "balance" is to say gut it until it isn't a thing anymore, which contradicts the point of balance, but no one ever looks that far into it.

yet they make up like 70% of the player base, so yeah it should be some what balanced around them.

Jamaree1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Dwagonswayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E52aeUMZ,comment-id=0000000000000002,timestamp=2015-11-16T02:26:10.723+0000)

yet they make up like 70% of the player base, so yeah it should be some what balanced around them.

No, no the game shouldn't be balanced around the lower spectrum that relies more on circlejerk, and what the pros are currently playing or not playing to decide their balance. Because with these forums and the lower spectrum isn't op, never op, and never will be OP UNTIL a pro plays it.

Malzahar, Swain, Leona, Janna are all dumb in their own right, but they get to just flint around being broken in their own way because pros don't play them, the MOMENT they would see tourney play, the lower end of the spectrum would once again flip and act like they were OP the whole time, like they do everytime.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

{quoted}

No, no the game shouldn't be balanced around the lower spectrum that relies more on circlejerk, and what the pros are currently playing or not playing to decide their balance. Because with these forums and the lower spectrum isn't op, never op, and never will be OP UNTIL a pro plays it.

Malzahar, Swain, Leona, Janna are all dumb in their own right, but they get to just flint around being broken in their own way because pros don't play them, the MOMENT they would see tourney play, the lower end of the spectrum would once again flip and act like they were OP the whole time, like they do everytime.

Not working around the majority will never EVER end well.

Jamaree2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Dwagonswayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E52aeUMZ,comment-id=000000000000000200000000,timestamp=2015-11-16T06:39:00.760+0000)

Not working around the majority will never EVER end well.

Nor will balancing the game around the lower end either because most of the time, their balance decisions come off circle jerk and what is currently strong.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

{quoted}

Nor will balancing the game around the lower end either because most of the time, their balance decisions come off circle jerk and what is currently strong.

welp when the game gets too ridiculous there just gonna leave cuz they never received any attention and then youll get be left with 30% of the current community.

Ternt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Dwagonswayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E52aeUMZ,comment-id=00000000000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-16T06:43:25.985+0000)

welp when the game gets too ridiculous there just gonna leave cuz they never received any attention and then youll get be left with 30% of the current community.

You gotta look at it at a different angle. When the juggernauts came out initially, Garen was horrible to play against in lower elo's like Bronze/Silver. Watching streams and gameplays of Diamond+, you just don't see Garen hardly at all. He's like an instaban in Silver, but for the higher elo people he isn't an issue because they understand his weaknesses and exploit them. And most people instead of trying to figure out how to play against him, they just make a post on the forums saying he's OP and needs to be balanced. Which then gets tons of upvotes from low elo people who are pissed off about having to play against him. Riot bases more of their decisions off of Reddit posts than their own forums because of this factor. If you look at a Reddit thread about something like this, it's always presented with a large amount of statistics proving X champion is not balanced for X reasons. Every thread on here is just a whine thread, and the decent threads on here were initially posted on Reddit, then moved here.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

{quoted}

You gotta look at it at a different angle. When the juggernauts came out initially, Garen was horrible to play against in lower elo's like Bronze/Silver. Watching streams and gameplays of Diamond+, you just don't see Garen hardly at all. He's like an instaban in Silver, but for the higher elo people he isn't an issue because they understand his weaknesses and exploit them. And most people instead of trying to figure out how to play against him, they just make a post on the forums saying he's OP and needs to be balanced. Which then gets tons of upvotes from low elo people who are pissed off about having to play against him. Riot bases more of their decisions off of Reddit posts than their own forums because of this factor. If you look at a Reddit thread about something like this, it's always presented with a large amount of statistics proving X champion is not balanced for X reasons. Every thread on here is just a whine thread, and the decent threads on here were initially posted on Reddit, then moved here.

I don't know which streams u watch but the ones I've seen garen was just as ridiculous, I watched wingsofdeathx get a quadra with only a cleaver, and another game as garen he got a 1v3 triple kill, so no I don't agree with you saying it's just low elo. And as someone who goes to reddit daily I can tell you for a fact that reddit whines just as much as the boards.

AtheosisX1 votes

{quoted}

It is impossible to balance the game for every spectrum.

And currently it's balanced for none. Have you seen the new stats that have come out? They broke the game...

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

And currently it's balanced for none. Have you seen the new stats that have come out? They broke the game...

Not what I said.

SilentGob1in1 votes

why can you not balance the game for each level, would that involve work that may not be as fun for people at riot ? Too bad they are supposed to be working for their customers, this is not the case with riot. All I see is extemely poor customer service, a company that is out of touch with its customer base, and a complete lack of integrity and responsibliity. The game dev at riot are the biggest trolls of the entire game. They have made lower tiers into permanent Beta testing.Her is an example of Riot Dev trolling . Someone dodges and I go from primary roll to secondary roll , punished due to their dodge, then as i Select my champ there is an error so I am diconectted temp by the time i get reconnnected I have been give a leaver ban and because i dodged a troll earlier its a 30 min wait. A 30 min wait for zero reasons other than lower tier beta testing. this is not a one off, ( I have the highest int avaliable a high end gaming computer as well) this happens over and over and over, it gets reported and they do...you guessed it nothing . This is but one example I could give you hundreds and that is not a joke hundreds of examples of diff small things that can be fixed , should be fixed but wont be because of a complete utter disregard for customer service. I truly hope someone from riot read this.

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

why can you not balance the game for each level, would that involve work that may not be as fun for people at riot ? Too bad

Why are necroing a post from 2 years ago? You can't balance the game for each level because it is actually impossible, a lot of the things that are broken or strong at high elo are shit at low elo because they lack the mechanical skill to use them properly and vice versa.

they are supposed to be working for their customers, this is not the case with riot. All I see is extemely poor customer service, a company that is out of touch with its customer base, and a complete lack of integrity and responsibliity.

Yeah they should be working for the customer but no, they shouldn't blind follow the QQ on the forums because these forums are just an echo chamber of bad ideas.

The game dev at riot are the biggest trolls of the entire game. They have made lower tiers into permanent Beta testing.Her is an example of Riot Dev trolling . Someone dodges and I go from primary roll to secondary roll , punished due to their dodge, then as i Select my champ there is an error so I am diconectted temp by the time i get reconnnected I have been give a leaver ban and because i dodged a troll earlier its a 30 min wait. A 30 min wait for zero reasons other than lower tier beta testing.

This can happen at higher elo so I mean...ok?

this is not a one off, ( I have the highest int avaliable a high end gaming computer as well) this happens over and over and over

I feel where it happens over, it might be a problem with your client because this isn't a wide spread problem.

it gets reported and they do...you guessed it nothing . This is but one example I could give you hundreds and that is not a joke hundreds of examples of diff small things that can be fixed , should be fixed but wont be because of a complete utter disregard for customer service. I truly hope someone from riot read this.

I doubt anyone will read this, and what are these hundreds of examples, and have you documented this failure?

KarKzz6 votes

The game should be highly balanced for the 80% majority, and tweaked a bit for comp players. Pro players have an easier time playing against thing, even if they are totaly OP .But if something is OP for Not-pro player, they just won't have fun, and the OP thing will just stomp the lane / the match.

Jamaree3 votes

{quoted}

The game should be highly balanced for the 80% majority, and tweaked a bit for comp players. Pro players have an easier time playing against thing, even if they are totaly OP .But if something is OP for Not-pro player, they just won't have fun, and the OP thing will just stomp the lane / the match.

Then lower level players need to get better, why should the champion get weakened even if it is balanced or has clear flaws because the lower level can't handle it, and when that does happen, champions fall out of viability. Case in point, pre rework Mordekaiser is probably the biggest case of his. Back in Season 1 and early season 2, low elo players couldn't handle him, even though his flaws were incredibly apparent, higher players said he was fine, and just camp him, nope, the larger low elo population said gut him, he got gutted and became a niche pick that sat on the edge of being viable to non viable for years. Then there is the flip side, where low elo players beg for champions to see buffs and don't ever look past the here and now to see why it might be a bad idea. Three current big offenders of this are Veigar, Lux, and Tahm Kench, and funnily enough, even after their buffs, they were STILL seen as weak UNTIL pros played them. So no, the sheep of a mind set lower elo players are not the ones to balance the game around especially when their entire bases of what is OP or not doesn't actually comes from them or what is normally played at their elo, it comes from what said higher elo players play.

YumaS2Astral4 votes

{quoted}

Then lower level players need to get better, why should the champion get weakened even if it is balanced or has clear flaws because the lower level can't handle it, and when that does happen, champions fall out of viability. Case in point, pre rework Mordekaiser is probably the biggest case of his. Back in Season 1 and early season 2, low elo players couldn't handle him, even though his flaws were incredibly apparent, higher players said he was fine, and just camp him, nope, the larger low elo population said gut him, he got gutted and became a niche pick that sat on the edge of being viable to non viable for years. Then there is the flip side, where low elo players beg for champions to see buffs and don't ever look past the here and now to see why it might be a bad idea. Three current big offenders of this are Veigar, Lux, and Tahm Kench, and funnily enough, even after their buffs, they were STILL seen as weak UNTIL pros played them. So no, the sheep of a mind set lower elo players are not the ones to balance the game around especially when their entire bases of what is OP or not doesn't actually comes from them or what is normally played at their elo, it comes from what said higher elo players play.

The game should be balanced for every elo, even Riot stated it themselves.

It is perfectly possible for a champion to be balanced for every elo. For example, Tryndamere. He is a monster on low elo, but is gated by high skillcap. Azir is mediocre on low elo, but a monster on high elo. There will always be something that is a monster on some elos, but bad on others.

Skias10 votes

{quoted}

Game shouldn't be balanced around the lower end of the spectrum.

Games should be fun, this preseason isn't fun.

Transgressor3 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs] That right here is pretty much the TL:DR of this fucking patch.

Valenten2 votes

idk man Ive enjoyed myself with this patch from what ive played before Fallout 4 came :O

NostolgicSkies3 votes

{quoted}

idk man Ive enjoyed myself with this patch from what ive played before Fallout 4 came :O

i replaced this shitty pre season with the new tomb raider. . .hear that riot ppl are playing tombraider over your game. . . .thats bad. hell this pre season gave blizzard there wow player base back

BITE ZA DUSTO4 votes

[deleted]

Keevalroy3 votes

{quoted}

Riot has become Blizzard 2.0 it seems. There's no coming back at this point.

They're not that detached from their playerbase and reality...yet, but they're certainly on their way if this keeps up just a little while longer.

blueberrypancake1 votes

I thought Blizzard was cool until they made Dr. Boom a card and gut warsong commander so Patron couldn't be played

Keevalroy3 votes

A Hearthstone change is where they crossed the line? Jesus you either didn't play WoW or you have saint-like patience.

Kaisha3 votes

The hired the WoW lead designer... Really I find this hilarious because exactly what happened in WoW is happening here again. I'm just hoping that after Ghostcrawler kills yet another game I once liked, that maybe he'll head over to EA, because no one likes EA.

CuteGuy6pack4 votes

I actually loved season 5, It was the most balanced the game has ever been! Except the juggernauts. This pre season is by far the worst. If these changes make it through I'll quit for sure. I love the adc reworks, but the gold income change, nerf to towers, nerf to jungle, 15 min games, no comeback style games are honestly the least fun i've had in league in forever. (I even win most of my games). Stomps aren't fun.

Imagine how bad stomps will be in dynamic queue when you get a premade vs solo queuers.

Ferus and Ferrum1 votes

I honestly think the only reason rito's catching hell this time is because unlike last preseason when only the jungle got demolished, now the rest of the playerbase gets put through the grinder for a change. Serves you filthy laners right :) (only certain champs are viable because the new items favor them) sounds familiar

Pengrin4 votes

Been saying this for forever, now people are starting to realize it. (New) Riot has been trying to be "innovative" and are falling flat on their face, because their "innovations" are purely imaginative and only hurt the balance of this game while stuffing in a bunch of changes no one wants to experience.

The purest example of this trash Riot has been stuffing in this game, other than the 5 billion other changes they made, is the Morde rework. Trying to stuff a melee ADC (that was an AP champion before putting his kit into a shredder) to bot lane will just not work the way they did it by adding passive after passive.

There is also the fact that Riot seems to never want to communicate with the community anymore. Even before on GD before this reddit clone came along, Rioters like Guinsoo and Zileas still commented on more threads than they do now about balance rather than give us a reacharound and avoid the topic at hand coughCertainlyT mordecough.

Riot is not the same Riot for 3-4 years ago, and definitely not for the better. I cannot know how people can call the current status of this game more healthy or better than the game in the past.

Reference this thread for more: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EEgu3LpI-i-can-no-longer-have-fun-playing-this-game

t0ad51 votes

{quoted}

Been saying this for forever, now people are starting to realize it. (New) Riot has been trying to be "innovative" and are falling flat on their face, because their "innovations" are purely imaginative and only hurt the balance of this game while stuffing in a bunch of changes no one wants to experience.

The purest example of this trash Riot has been stuffing in this game, other than the 5 billion other changes they made, is the Morde rework. Trying to stuff a melee ADC (that was an AP champion before putting his kit into a shredder) to bot lane will just not work the way they did it by adding passive after passive.

There is also the fact that Riot seems to never want to communicate with the community anymore. Even before on GD before this reddit clone came along, Rioters like Guinsoo and Zileas still commented on more threads than they do now about balance rather than give us a reacharound and avoid the topic at hand coughCertainlyT mordecough.

Riot is not the same Riot for 3-4 years ago, and definitely not for the better. I cannot know how people can call the current status of this game more healthy or better than the game in the past.

Reference this thread for more: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EEgu3LpI-i-can-no-longer-have-fun-playing-this-game

Yeah they lost me when they removed Mordekaiser.

Chespin20132 votes

Too me the tank meta felt like the most balanced meta. Felt there was actual coordination involved and how I could do my job as a tank to help peel and cc the enemy team and I enjoyed having 40 min close games compared to the snowbally games that end within 10 to 20 mins. I don't get why they felt the need to buff the shit out of ADC's. The only thing they really needed help with was more item diversity and better build path. Now tanks feel like garbage, their items are nerfed too shit, and I can't do the job of a tank anymore. Sad times for one who enjoys tanks. I don't really feel like playing a game that focus' on balancing around pro play and alienates the playerbase in the process. Let the pros decide how to play the game, let us decide our way. I don't care if Riot makes changes to spice things up because lets be real we would get sick of the same stuff for more than 2 or 3 months anyway. However I don't want things that are fine too be changed all for the sake of Riot trying new things and to wait and see what happens by testing it on live servers. Use the PBE servers for testing game balance not live servers.

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