Had a game where my mid laner roamed top and we killed enemy top laner, we took tower with one minion wave at 10 min mark or before. I still didnt even back once.
YES ITS SO ANNOYING EVEN IF I AM WINNING I FIND IT BULLSHIT!
Junglerz Fault7 votesThere was a thread going around here about that.
But I fear the crybabies took over that thread, saying how hard the game is. They do need to be buffed though no matter what anyone says. There's not enough team strategy going on anymore. People don't need to work together to take the nexus as much.
korg0233 votesThere needs to be more threads, one day when there is every thread about buffing towers maybe Riot will at least respond!
oSEXYPLATYPUSo19 votesriot has been dumbing down the skill of the game over and over multiple times. and its just continues they want to attract the casual fan/player and have an easier time learning and playing the game instead of the grind it use to take to become decent at the game
Avienal9 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E43MuGK1,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-06-20T14:34:19.843+0000)
riot has been dumbing down the skill of the game over and over multiple times. and its just continues they want to attract the casual fan/player and have an easier time learning and playing the game instead of the grind it use to take to become decent at the game
They need to take a swing at tower 'dumbing down', namely the counterplay part. Currently towers pretty much dish out physical damage which makes them notoriously easy targets for 'armor stacking tank champions. even with a 30% armor pen on 'bullet turrets' and if the lasers still existed (75% armor pen), they still allow 'tanks' to rather easily soak up attacks, especially ones who already have 500~1000 health which lets do some math.
If a outer turret 'tops of' at 180 AD at the 10 minute mark then in order to deal 1000 hp before it applies' its bonus damage stacks, before we even include 'armor reducing the damage a champion takes, then it would take roughly 5~6 shots.
Now if we include the 3 stack bonus it becomes (180, 252(180 +40% of its base), 324(180 +80% of its base), 396(180+120% of its base).
By the time that 4th shot hits the amount of damage it dishes out before modification becomes 1152, which basically means you break 1k by the 4th shot instead. I'm not going to go into the math with the armor and armor pen, but clearly its 'barely a difference' between taking turret shots before the damage bonus (which CAPS at 120% bonus) vs ones without it.
Here's some changes i believe they really need to do. -EITHER change damage to count as a special type of 'true damage' that can't be inhibited by resistance to make it more threatening to tanks.
-EITHER change the % armor pen to flat armor pen alongside a scaling armor % pen that increases as an opponent has more armor to also be more threatening to tanks. Namely to make it threatening to non-armored opponents and make tanks suffer some actual damage while trying to soak hits.
-EITHER throw in a % hp damage bonus where people with higher amounts of health will take much more damage in order to make tanks have just as much vulnerability to turrets then a marksman without a shred of health or armor/magic resist.
-Give a 'reaction burst' passive for the turret so if an enemy who uses abilities under your turret and hits you to 'greatly' speed up the turret shots for the first 1, maybe 2 shots to prevent them getting away with relatively easy harass you and quickly walk out before the turret shot fires and they repeat the shenigan over and over again.
Ultimately turrets need to provide a better threat on opponents since we have a insane number of champions currently that can easily wall jump 
, EZ tank turret shots
and many more and so many other issues. EZ safe poker champions with insanely strong hits at early levels 
(Seriously NERF her damn Mantra damage combos! Slow+AoE dmg with barely a wind up and barely any scaling demand on the ap side for the strong damage is annoying enough as it is!), 
.
Not saying the latter of that bunch are broken, but they all basically can do a rather 'EZ' job at harassing you under your own turret and likely still cover minion kill CS with not much of an issue, where i feel like a jungler 'being a guard dog for you' is just making the jungler suffer and allow the enemy jungler more EZ roam power with your jungle busy playing babysitter then opportunity ganker.
[slayer-jinx-unamused]
SpecterVonBaren4 votesTanks melt to carries come late game though, tanking turrets should be something tanks are capable of doing late game since it's the only thing they WILL tank then.
TeCoolMage3 votesThe two are separate problems and should have nothing to do with each other
SpecterVonBaren1 votesUh.... No they do? Riot wants tanks to melt to carries late game so they should at least be able to still tank something by then.
TeCoolMage2 votesNo, Riot should fix either whenever they can instead of not fixing one simply because the other exists. That's like saying Kassadin with 90% winrate was justified purely because other assassins sucked
SpecterVonBaren1 votesExcept you're missing the point. Riot doesn't consider tanks melting late game to be a problem that needs to be fixed, in the words of Heimer, "Working as intended!" They don't see a problem with that and don't want to change it and we can't convince them otherwise.
TeCoolMage2 votesexcept that wasn't your point? Your point was that tanking towers was somehow necessary despite all its current problems simply because tanks melt late game to carries.
Tanks shouldn't be able to stay under tower forever. If they can't tank anything then, so be it. If a tank's late game power hinges upon tanking towers and melting to carries is intended, it just shows how much this intended weakness is actually a problem.
SpecterVonBaren1 votesAnd my point was that if Riot wants tanks to melt to carries in the late game then tanks need to have SOMETHING they can tank in the late game, which are turrets. This doesn't mean staying under them forever, I never said anything of the sort, but your suggestions were ones that made turrets be especially good at killing tanks while all the high mobility champions that make turrets a joke would less effected.
TeCoolMage2 votesI didn't make any suggestions of the sort, I believe that tower resets like Yi Q and fizz E shouldn't exist plus the fact they should do more damage on the first shot which affects everyone.
If dying instantly in nearly any pvp situation is meant to offset tanking towers for over 20 shots, it's pretty clear that what Riot wants is a problem.
SpecterVonBaren1 votesBut the person I responded to first said this,
-EITHER change damage to count as a special type of 'true damage' that can't be inhibited by resistance to make it more threatening to tanks.
-EITHER change the % armor pen to flat armor pen alongside a scaling armor % pen that increases as an opponent has more armor to also be more threatening to tanks. Namely to make it threatening to non-armored opponents and make tanks suffer some actual damage while trying to soak hits.
-EITHER throw in a % hp damage bonus where people with higher amounts of health will take much more damage in order to make tanks have just as much vulnerability to turrets then a marksman without a shred of health or armor/magic resist.
-Give a 'reaction burst' passive for the turret so if an enemy who uses abilities under your turret and hits you to 'greatly' speed up the turret shots for the first 1, maybe 2 shots to prevent them getting away with relatively easy harass you and quickly walk out before the turret shot fires and they repeat the shenigan over and over again
And stop trying to misrepresent my argument. I said tanks should be able to tank turrets since Riot won't let them tank carries, not that carries should melt them because they tank turrets.
TeCoolMage2 votesSo??? Tanks shouldn't be able to tank towers and if they can because they melt to carries, that is a problem
Leonerdo6 votesSo many things are going wrong in this thread.
I can't believe I wasted my time responding to this; considering how many upvotes you have, I'm likely just wasting my breath on deaf ears.
AninLegions7772 votesHow long have you played this game? I played this game since S2 and having seen turrets at their strongest, I can tell you it doesn't make the game easier. You actually have to have items to take towers. Not a serrated dirk and 1 minion wave to 100-0 the damn thing. Keep in mind that since nerfing towers, Riot have introduced Herald, Buffed Baron, Brought out zz'rot, added magic dmg to tower, and some other shit that made taking towers easier. It's only logical that they buff towers to compensate.
Leonerdo1 votesS1. And you're ignoring the buffs that have already been made to turrets over the years. Most notably in 6.9.
I feel like you were probably like me, in that you didn't really remember turret changes over the year, because it's been a long time and they're honestly not the most important changes. But unlike me, it also seems that you didn't do your research to make up for your bad memory.
Oh and while I'm at it: One of the biggest nerfs to towers was in 5.5 when they removed 90% of the shielding that inner turrets gave to nearby allied champions. And it was because, as I mentioned before, the highly defensible turrets were making games too easy to stall out. Those were the days when Ziggs won games just by wave-clearing and forcing the game to last 50 minutes so his late-game-oriented team could reach full build. No one wants that. And so I repeat buffing towers will not make the game better, more strategic, or more difficult; but it sure as hell will make the game take longer.
AninLegions7773 votesAh the Ziggs argument used to justify weak towers. The only reason that worked was because of the bonus dmg to minions on his R. Also Ziggs could only defend 2 towers. One with ult and the second with basic abilities. If you can't split and focus towers not being protected, then you're at fault. Worst case, ban ziggs. Problem solved. Also there's no amount of wave clear that can stop a 5-man push with current baron buff. It's impossible. Stop trying to make excuses. The so-called Ziggs you talked about stalling games and shit is not, ironically, the fastest turret taker in the game. So yeah buff turrets pls.
Leonerdo1 votesZiggs is not the only one capable of stalling game. He's just the poster-boy of that era. Orianna, Viktor, Syndra, and Anivia are just as bad, to name a few off the top of my head. And there are tons more champions with nearly as good wave-clear.
I wrote the crossed-out part and then realized that none of it is concrete proof, but rather it's just an elaboration of my personal viewpoint. So suffice it to say, that I don't think the meta is in need of, nor could stand, a buff to towers. If you don't agree, then we just see things differently. I mean, who's to say what exactly is too much or too little stalling/defense. It's objective. :\ The only subjective thing I can say, is that there ARE trade-offs to buffing towers. And I don't like those trade-offs. Fair?
Heck, a team with Galio, Zyra, and basically any midlaner are easily enough wave-clear and counter-engage to stall out a push at two turrets, if not three. And that regularly happens; and the only thing that breaks those defenses is Baron; and even then Baron might only earn the team one turret; and when Baron isn't up, the teams just wait around for the next spawn.
I think that's already an appropriate amount of stalling power in the game. I wouldn't want to risk tankier towers, lest we enter a meta of late-game, team-fight wombo-combo, because that will be the only semi-reliable way to end games.
Again, I'm not saying these things as absolutes or as singular possibilties, more as trends. I don't think we'll actually end up with wave-clear and teamfighting as the only viable strategies, but I don't want to take any steps towards those being the dominant strategies. And no I don't think the current meta is on the other side (split-pushing, skirmishes, and fast wins), so no I don't we have room to buff towers.
AninLegions7771 votesFair
Sir Fuzzi2 votesThey don't realize that much of the definition of a casual is that they don't take the time to learn the game sense because they don't really have any game sense in the first place-- hence this situation where the game needs to keep getting dumbed down and down.
It might help if towers did something besides 'just damage' and 'just damage' was something even the likes of Master Yi could mitigate pretty effectively.
TheSingularity4 votesWho needs a team these days?
Pick yorick. Solo rift herald. Kill top outter.
Pop heral, ult and zzrot while u have sheen and proceed to get a 15 minute inhib.
Then go bot and do it again.
Yi Bencheikh7 votesand a 
tanking infinite shots of the turret with this build 
korg0236 votesI thought i was losing my mind,but i remember few seasons before i could actually rely on my tower and feel comfortable when i spot enemy jungler sitting on my ward. Today when i see enemy jungler sitting on a ward near my lane waiting for minion wave to push to my tower so he and top laner can dive me i just back the fuck up cause that shit is not safe.
There is 99% of cases where enemy top laner literally walked up to me under my own turret killed me,tanked multiple turret shots and walked away like nothing is happening. All that in very early laning phase without a jungler.
Yi Bencheikh3 votesas someone who plays gp top alot , and who always gets into this situation i completely agree with you.
i remember a lvl 7 
tanking 6 turret shots with a 
and making it up alive .
What the fuck is this.
korg0233 votesExactly! And lets not forget GP has heal and cleanse on his W, if anyone is supposed to survive that its GP but nope,that is one major evidence how absurdly weak towers are.
Leetri3 votesAn outer turret would deal around 1500 damage in 6 shots if I didn't miss something in my calculations, and Irelia only has 1043 HP at lv 7. If she didn't take damage from anything other than the turret she'd be dead in 5 shots. 4 shots leave her with around 100 HP left. Either there's something you're leaving out or you're just exaggerating.
Yi Bencheikh2 votesninja tabis and healing with corrupting potions and her life steal and ulti
Leetri2 votesWell you didn't say she had tabis or a corrupting potion, you only said she had a sheen.
Raiyza6 votesTower dives are SO easy when it shouldn't be. Towers need early damage lowered, but attack speed increased.
korg0233 votesEarly game towers are weak and later in game they are totally irrelevant,when i say totally irrelevant i see them as bag of gold for my team and always ignore them while diving enemy.
Xion The XIV3 votesI have to agree especially with people like Nasus free farming. Turrets only take 3-4 shots late game to die. It's sickening that I can not feel safe at my tower when the enemy JG comes to gank. When I see that i'm already sure i'm dead just thinking if I can take one of them with me when I die. The sad part is it used t be, "I can out play them and get double kills" now it's, "I wonder if one of them will die with me".
Glîtchy6 votesBring back the laser beam turrets for inhib and nexus! these current ones suck ass.
XxDRAGONsAK47xX5 votesTowers are wet tissues.
The Deckowner4 votesI was getting chased down and only way out was execute, but it took too long for the tower to kill me the enemy ended up catching up. feelsbadman.
Catastrophic4 votesGet 
and tank 12 tower shots
korg0234 votesonly 10 after the nerf :D
Catastrophic3 votesOh boy !
Lucian Waifu3 votesI think what Riot needs to do is have turrets level up like jungle camps do. That way they can be weaker early game but scale into late game and actually be a threat when all champions are level 18, something turrets have never been able to do. And maybe turrets should also get additionally abilities the longer the game goes to make them stronger, like upgrades you would build onto turrets in other tower defense games.
aspects11 votespeople need to stop trying to change what riot does. accept it as a part of the game adapt move on if you complain all your saying is that you cant adapt
Scary Door2 votespeople need to stop trying to change what riot does. accept it as a part of the game adapt move on if you complain all your saying is that you cant adapt
Or maybe it is a legitimate issue that the playerbase keeps bringing up. This isn't a new issue, this isn't one where people need to "adapt", this is a situation that has plagued League for years.
It is bigger than just buffing towers though (although that is something htat needs to happen). Damage needs to be nerfed across the board, it is just far too easy to blow someone up these days---even on champs that aren't designed to do it. Towers hit like high thread count comforters and combined with excessive damage creep, we see the end result. Shorter, less intereting, more snowballish type of gameplay.
Yawn.
aspects11 voteswhy is anything you just said a problem maybe thats the way riot wants its game to be played your pretty much just saying you dont know how to adapt to the changes they have made to towers and damage and therefore want to complain about it instead of actually trying to adapt. and maybe its less interesting to you, but to many that makes it more interesting i love bloodmoon, a mode where you can get blown up instantly for being off guard for even a second its a free game you cant expect them to listen to every whim of the playerbase try to learn to use damage creep to your advantage rather than simply complaining about it lol
Scary Door3 votesThere isn't strategy involved in damage creep. There isn't any interaction in burst or who can blow up one another the fastest.
Riot obviously agrees somewhat because they have already nerfed some masteries and items that lead to this toxic style of gameplay---unfortunately it isn't enough.
By and large the community has said that towers are too weak, damage is too high and games feel far too snowball intensive.
It's not about Riot caving to every "whim of the playerbase". This may be a "free game", but without us, Riot doesn't exist and if you haven't notice the number of players IS DECLINING, that cannot be disputed. Therefore, Riot needs to be more cognizant with regard to the glaring issues the game faces.
aspects11 votesdid you read what i said? IT IS NOT AN ISSUE it is just a community saying they are unable to adapt as you said riot needs its community to have its game, so they have to listen when the comunity makes such an uproar thats how most of the changes made by riot are undone riot is trying to improve their game with these changes, but the community just keeps complaining, and they are unable to make it a better game then they complain about how "stale" the game is. thats why the only major changes to the game were visual, because the community as a whole is ok with riot changing this. evey gameplay related issue is always met with resistance from some part of the community who are unwilling to adapt
TeCoolMage3 votesSo what, we can't speak unless we all agree?
What is this, league of fascism?
aspects11 votesi never said you cant speak. i said that it has to be a valid point you bring up. most of the articles on the boards are complaining about something, that, if riot fixes, will draw hate from another group of people these sort of articles show an unwillingness to adapt
TeCoolMage2 votesand what exactly is a 'valid point'? A point that everyone agrees on? If not how the hell will riot take that valid point without other people hating on it?
Scary Door2 votesThis isn't about "adapting".
There are some gameplay mechanics that are inherently unhealthy designs. I'll give you just one of many examples...
Kog'Maw following the marksman update. On the surface, it seemed like a neat idea to have Kog'Maw be able to break the attack speed cap with a 5.0 AS, but it didn't take long to realize that a ranged champion with 5.0 attack speed is not healthy. You can't "adapt" to a mechanic like that. Kog'Maw's win rate after 30 minutes was off the charts because he could (and I know this term is used way too often but it's actually true here) 1v5 a team. You couldn't get to him to blow him up, you couldn't outduel him because of the lifesteal combined with a 5.0 attack speed and his ability to chunk 10% of your health with every attack.
Yes, some aspects of the game are simply a "get good" issue, but there are many unhealthy elements that need to be addressed. Towers are weaker because Riot has nerfed them through years, but the effect has been doubled by the fact that damage has increased in this game across all classes.
In seasons 1-3 the highest single-target, burst damage dealers in the game were assassins, the best dps and sieging ability was the marksman class (adc) with a few melee fighters being in there. Mages had their own unique identity, some were burst, some were control, some were dps, but usually they had less reliable (skillshot) damage. Support was much different then and overall I'd say it's better now sans the ward cap (that was a terrible idea).
In any event, more identity and diversity existed then, some champs were tanks---remember tanks? They actually did fairly small amounts of damage (especially late game), but could absorb significant amounts of damage.
Nowadays even tanks have too much goddam damage, ironically "tanks" don't do a very good job "tanking" because they get blown up so quickly.
aspects11 votessome are tanky, some are not they are either unkillable and do no damage (sej malph poppy rammus)- people with inbuilt resists or killable but do damage or killable and dont do damage
Scary Door2 votesthey are either unkillable and do no damage (sej malph poppy rammus)- people with inbuilt
What? Poppy does insane damage, %health damage and is almost impossible to escape. Black cleaver and a sheen item basically ensures kills over most non-tanks with a full combo. She hard counters champs like Yasuo, Akali, Pantheon.
Malphite does a lot of damage and actually has scaling with his armor. Malphite's laning phase against a lot of champions is pretty pitiful, but he---unlike some tanks---actually scales quite well into the late game because of his kit and is probably the single hardest counter to an all-AD team.
Sej doesn't do much damage these days and she's been nerfed a fair bit since the tank update.
Rammus is straight up garbage now, I almost never saw him before the update and I see him even less now. I knew someone that was a rammus main in season 5 and 6 who has sworn off playing him from now on.