@Riot, One Question: Why is Nidalee's Heal so Effective?

ESeTyRC··9 votes·1,594 views
Nidalee

Comparing maximum values of various heals:

Nidalee 600 range / 120 mana / 12sec CD / single target /** (205 + 50%AP)**

Kayle http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kayle 900 range / 100 mana / 15sec CD / single target / (240 + 40%AP)

Taric http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Taric 750 range / 140 mana / 14sec CD / self-targeted or ally and self / **(308 + 42%AP + 7% bonus HP) **or (220 + 30%AP + 5% bonus HP)

Nami http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Nami 725 range / 130 mana / 10sec CD / ally or enemy targeted with potentially 2 heals,** (185 + 30%AP)** each

Soraka http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Soraka 550 range / 10% maxHP + 40 mana / 2sec CD / allies only / (240 + 60%AP) GLOBAL / 100 mana / 130sec CD / all allies / (525 + 82.5%AP) for Allies BELOW 40% Health, if you want to consider her Ultimate.

Sona http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sona 1000 range / 100 mana / 10sec CD / 1 ally and self / (165 + 30%AP) each at MAXIMUM effectiveness

For healing herself, AP NidaleeNidalee has a more effective heal than: Taric Taric (because seriously, he's going to be building tanky, lacking AP, and the bonus health isn't going to boost his heal by much, NamiNami , and SonaSona . [Not counting SorakaSoraka's ult, though it'd only take 2 heals to match or surpass the amount healed.]

For healing herself (or individual allies), NidaleeNidalee is on par with KayleKayle, assuming both built a large amount of AP.

As for healing an ALLY, which you'd think the other champions, namely the supports should EXCEL at, Nidalee Nidalee is better than all Champions listed EXCEPT for KayleKayle and SorakaSoraka (who has to give up 10%MAX HP per cast).

The listed Supports (aside from SorakaSoraka) only heal a larger total amount than Nidalee if they heal two targets in one activation, and that only applies if both targets actually needed the healing.

Now then, moving on to the main topic, Why is Nidalee's Heal so Effective? Or rather, Why does her Heal make her a problem?

In the case of Supports, if I remember correctly, Supports were given reduced healing ability or more at higher cost in order to prevent the ADC / Support lanes from becoming stagnant farm-fests. Makes sense. Seriously, those times were pretty boring.

How about Nidalee Nidalee though? She's usually on her own, and as mentioned above, her self-healing is above the supports'. Her being alone does NOT change the fact that the heal can lead to a relatively stagnant lane.. but in Nidalee's case it can be one-sided. Not many laners have long-range single-target Free-shot ("skill" shot, if you will. But I think this is a clearer term since it can and often will be thrown blind) nukes on low CD, zoning DoT vision-utility traps, and a set of 3 skills that are completely manaless and provide both mobility and melee-range damage ON TOP OF HAVING A STRONG HEAL.

In other words, Nidalee Nidalee not only has high damage, mobility, and is half manaless, she has a heal so that when she takes some hits to go in and fight, she can recover from it.

The best part for her is that her heal scales off AP instead of having a higher base at higher levels. She gets to enjoy having a more effective heal every single time she gets more AP!

Nidalee Nidalee incurred some damage in Cougar form because that's her "more risk, more damage" form? No problem! Heal it up, use a mana potion if needed, repeat.

Nidalee Nidalee's Heal essentially negates the "risk" portion of going Cougar form, especially since if it landed, she gets to move again soon after, and if it didn't.. it means they evaded and made distance anyway.

Nidalee Nidalee does not need this Heal to lane or fight well. Since you guys are shaving off the parts of kits that aren't as necessary, maybe Nidalee's Heal should be looked at for nerfs, and if necessary, compensated elsewhere.

19 Comments

Rico Nasty4 votes

What is her heal even doing in her kit? They need to go back to the drawing board with Nid, her rework did not fix anything at all.

Phoenix Kotori 3 votes

Because she brings relative low utility compared those other champs.

Kayle - can heal, speed up, slow, and invincible a champ Soraka - can slow, silence, root, self heal, and heal x2. Nami - can heal, stun, slow, speed up, and knock-up. Taric - can heal, stun, armor shred, and boost allied AP/AD. Sona - can heal, slow, damage down, stun, shield, speed up, boost on hit dmg, and I think that's it.

Meanwhile Nidalee - can heal and give an AS boost.

That is why it's allowed to be a little stronger because she is generally very lacking in utility as a champion.

Nidalee does not need this Heal to lane or fight well.

She would need a significant hp/5 buff or some other survivability buff to remain viable in the jungle or top lane. Give her already 47% win rate currently.

Voluug131 votes

But she isnt a dedicated support. And you forgot traps. Neither is Kayle, but she cant do well as a support either.

Meanwhile Nidalee can heal and give an AS boost, put limitless damaging traps and nuke from a gigantical range.

Fixed to be honest.

Phoenix Kotori 1 votes

Traps are hardly utility when they do minimal damage now that the lost current hp% was lost off them and oh yea minions can trigger them, and do nothing besides vision.

And damage by definition isn't utility.

PaeanAsklepios1 votes

She may not traditionally work the support role, but she can definitely work well as a support in the right situation.

Ulquiorra9951 votes

Umm... And why exactly should her utility be comparable to dedicated support champions? Might as well say Zed lacks utility on top of exploding people, would make as much sense.

Phoenix Kotori 1 votes

The point is her heal being a little stronger isn't a big deal because she doesn't bring any others utility to the table.

All other form shifters bring heavier utility than her Gnar hard CC and slows Elise hard CC and vision RekSai slow, hard CC, unique vision ability. Jayce slows, knockback, teamwide Movement speed, resistance shreds.

Her utility is purely in one spell.

Erockandroll2 votes

I'm assuming that Riot would like to continue shaping her as a Jungler. If so, she needs the Heal for the Jungle sustain. Though if we wanted to shave of healing at the later stages of the game, we could increase the base heal while shaving of a good chunk of the ratio. Would her AP build a little less effective.

She's good at healing from sustained damage, to work around this, target her defenses and her HP, make her more vulnerable to poke and all in.

Voluug131 votes

If they wanted to shape her as a Jungler, they could have not nerfed her bases the moment Nidalee Jungle became FotM.

tbh they dont know what to do with her, she is one of their favorite children so they dont want to relaunch her, but she needs a real rework because her kit doesnt make sense in current league, and they know this.

Nidalee SO NYAAA2 votes

When only talk about a Champ strong parts yeah they sound op. This tank meta is really hard on Nid. The heal does nothing if she always has tanks her face. Btw they were going to make CD on her heal but they toke it off because they lowered her hp quite a bit.

Abyssphere2 votes

Well Nidalee's heal does less for her than the other heals you mentioned (Taric aside as he's terrible).

Sona = AOE shield Nami = can damage or heal two people, applies passive Soraka = non-existent cooldown (+ outright better heal ofc) Kayle = movement speed boost on Kayle is more useful than an AS boost on Nidalee - AS boost is better if Nid heals the ADC but Kayle is also not a dedicated support so I don't think this needs comparing - if anything Kayle's heal shouldn't be as strong as it is either

Nidalee's heal is strong but it's not just a case of looking at numbers - you have to look at secondary effects, other utility of the champion, etc.

LilxPaprika1 votes

Revert the hp nerf and nerf heal? Or were the HP nerfs fine? I didn't look where she stands next to other champs, but I prefer nidale being less reluctant to go in with panther form without getting bursted. In exchange her heals can be nerfed.

Honestly nid has a lot going for her too. Its all situational really. In some situations the bonus attack speed could be deemed more beneficial than the movement speed and vice versa. Nidaly has unmatched versatility though, with the ability to poke go in and out of fights. These thing are arguably as good as what nami taric Kayle can provide. Its just in a different flavour, can't directly compare a assassin/fight/support to a dedicated support.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

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Phoenix Kotori 1 votes

Sona heals 2 people, and shield her entire team it isn't a pure heal.

Nami can heal 2 / damage 1 or damage 2 / heal 1, again not really comparable since impacts multiple people.

Voluug131 votes

Seriously, Nidalee's heal has no sense, it worse that Old Soraka when it comes to ''0 interaction lane'' creation.

Supports with strong heals have neutered kill potential, specially Soraka and Nami, while Kayle and Taric are currently bad supports and better off as solo laners and even there have no where the tools and damage Nidalee has, and both of them heal for little and cant get away with building pure AP glass cannon so their heals dont scale well at all.

OmManiPadmeHum1 votes

Hell, what about Bard ???

At least nid has 6 other skills to use (2 each for human and cougar).

Bard has a skill SPECIFICALLY dedicated to healing, yet every time I let one charge and step on it, my health bar hardly moves.

Phoenix Kotori 2 votes

Everyone knows Bard is UP especially his heal.

64931067_DEL1 votes

The most ridiculous thing here is Why Nidalee have a 50% AP scale heal when she also have lots of dmg output? Remember why Rito remove DFG: it was because DFG add the safe which assassins do not need. So remove the safe heals out of Nidalee, she also has enough dmg to all in anyone.

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