A polite question for the balance team.

MRLOLI6000·9/15/2019, 4:34:19 AM·2 votes·1,429 views

I dont want to hate on the balance team or talk bad about them they are people like us trying to get by day by day. I have no idea if the balance team will read this or not. I also have no idea if they will even care or not. I honestly hope to get an answer because it would be extremely appreciated. My question is about the Yuumi nerfs. I am curious as to why she is nerfed multiple times when she in my opinion doesn't need it. I will state that yes she did need some nerfs but not as many has she has gotten and may continue to get. Below is something I hope gets taken into consideration regarding not only my question but my explanations to why my question came up.

I went into training mode and used this set up on some select champions (runes explained below) Runes: (primary) glacial augment hextech flashtraption future's market time warp tonic (secondary) demolish overgrowth / Adaptive force Adaptive force Defense ----these runes were selected since they do not provide any buffs to any abilities in a neutral state such as "cosmic insight" giving cooldown reduction and stuff like that. The two adaptive force was used since any champion can use them regardless of rune choice (especially since rune effects are excluded in this test) The defense can be ignored for the most part since it only matters to a few champions in this test/explanation The champions used in this test are Janna Nami Soraka Lulu Nautilus Leona Pyke
Yuumi

These are the stats of the champions abilities at level 18 with no items the second version of the skill is with items (items mentioned after) Janna [Q] deals 160 (+6 ap) bonus damage of 35(+2 ap) 12 second cooldown **160(+103) 35(+29) 7.2sec cooldown [W] deals 195(+9 ap)(+20) 6 second cooldown slows the enemy 40%(+ 1% ap) for 2 seconds **195(+147) 3.6sec cooldown [E] shields 220(+13 ap) 12 second cooldown gives target 40(+2 ap) attack damage **220(+205) 7.2sec cooldown [R] knocks away enemies and heals 200(+9 ap) every second for 3 seconds ~600(+27 ap) total if a target is healed for the entire 3 seconds ~ 120 second cooldown ** 200(+147) 600(+441) total 72sec cooldown Nami [Q] deals 295(+9 ap) stuns for 1.5 seconds 8 second cooldown **295(+147) 4.8sec cooldown [W] heals 160(+5) or deals 230(+9 ap) with a -14% per bounce 10 second cooldown **160(+88) / 230(+147) 6sec cooldown [E] gives ally 3 autos that slow for 35%(+19) and there autos deal 85(+9 ap) magic damage 11 second cooldown ** 85(+59) bonus magic damage 6.6sec cooldown [R] knocks up and deals 350(+11 ap) and slows for 70% for 2 second minimum max 4 seconds 100 second cooldown ** 350(+176) 60sec cooldown Soraka [Q] deals 215(+6) slows for 30% for 1.5 seconds can grant self healing for 140(+9) 4 second cooldown **215(+103) 2.4sec cooldown [W] heals 200(+11) can grant bonus healing of 140(+9) 2 seconds cooldown **200(+176) bonus140(+147) 1.2sec cooldown
[E] deals 170(+17 ap) and silences in the area can deal additional 170(+17 ap) and root for 2 seconds 16 second cooldown **170(+117) additional 170(+117) 9.6sec coodlown [R] heals 350+(10) and is increased by 50% for allys below 40% health 130 second cooldown **350(+160) 78sec cooldown Lulu [Q] deals 260(+9 ap) to first hit 182(+6ap) to all others max damage cap 269 slows for 80% decay of 2 seconds 7 second cooldown **260(+147) first 182(+103) all others 407 total damage cap 4.2sec cooldown [w] makes enemy not able to do anything but move for 2.25 seconds and slows them a flat -60 to movement speed gives teammate or self 30(+1)% movement speed bonus and 45 attack speed bonus 12 second cooldown **7.2second cooldown [E] shields teammate or self for 220(+11 ap) for 2.5 seconds or deals 200(+7) and gives vision for 4 seconds 10 second cooldown **shield 220(+176) deal 200(+117) 6sec cooldown [R] gives bonus health of 600(+9) and knocks enemies up and slows them for 60% **health 600(+147) [Passive] deals 117(+3 ap) (can be blocked by minions or other enemies) ** 117(+44) Nautilus [Q] deals 280+(16 ap) and stuns 10 second cooldown **280(+84) 6sec cooldow [W] shields himself for 10% of max health and autos deal 70(+7 ap) for duration 12 second cooldown **deals 70(+37) 7.sec cooldown [E] deals 175(+5) slows for 50% decaying for 1.25 seconds 5 second cooldown (extra damage is 50% by additional explosions) **175(28) 3sec cooldown [R] deals 225(+7) and knocks up and stuns for 2 seconds to targets passed through deals 450+14) and knocks up and stuns primary target 80 second cooldown **225(+37) passing through 450(+74) target 48sec cooldown [Passive] deals 110(+117 ad) and roots first target hit Leona [Q] deals 110(+0ap) and stuns for 1 second 5 second cooldown ** 110(+28) 3.5sec cooldown [W] reduces self damage by 24 and grants armor of 40(+1 arm) magic resist of 40(+1mr) and deals 220+(0ap) 10 second cooldown **deals 220(37) 6sec cooldown [E] deals 220(+0ap) and roots for .5 seconds 6 second cooldown **220(+37) 3.6sec cooldown [R] deals 250(+0ap) and slows for 80% or stuns(if in center) for 1.5 seconds 30 second cooldown **350(+74) 30sec cooldown [Passive] teammates deal 114 magic damage to enemies hit by Leona's abilities Pyke [Q] deals 275(+6 ad) and slows for 90% for 1 second 8 second cooldown **275+156 4.8sec cooldown [W] goes invisible and gives self movement speed increase for 60%(+0) decaying over 5 seconds 10 second cooldown **6sec cooldown [E] deals 215(+11 ad) and stuns for 1.25(+0.0) seconds 15 second cooldown **215(+254) 9sec cooldown [R] executes an enemy under 550(+9 ad)health if above 550(+9) health deals 50% damage of 225(+9 ad) if a kill inside mark grants a full kills worth of gold to self and assisting teammates and resets ultimate for 20 seconds 80 second cooldown **550(+207) execute 48sec cooldown [Passive] when out of enemy vision self heals for 80% of recent damage taken Yuumi [Q] deals 165(+8 ap) and slows for 20% for 1 second if empowered deals 225(+12 ap) ( patch 9.19) 6 second cooldown **165(+132) empowered 225(+190) 3.6sec cooldown [W] gain 13 + 16% AD or AP dependent on attached teammate 0 second cooldown past level 11 [E] heal 70(+2) up to 161(+7) and give a 25(2)% increase movement speed decaying over 2 seconds (2 charges) 14 second cooldown **70(+29) up to 161(+117) 2 charge 8.4sec cooldown [R] deals 100(+4) then deals 50% less damage after first wave of 7 and roots for 1 second if hit by 3 waves 90 second cooldown **100(+59) 50% less damage after first hit 54sec cooldown [Passive] shields for 300(+5) 8 second cooldown **300+(88) 8sec cooldown the items used for Janna Nami Soraka Lulu are full yuumi build to keep consistency. For Nautilus Leona they will have a build used common by them (from what I've seen) and Pyke will have his common item set ---- items for the first group are Remnant of the watchers / Athena's unholy grail / Ardent Censer / Mikael's crucible / Redemption / Shurelya's Reverie -- items for Leona and Nautilus are Remnant of the aspect / Zeke's convergence / Knight's vowe / Zhonya's hourglass / Abyssal mask / Boots of mobility ----- items for Pyke are Remnant of the aspect / Boots of mobility / Duskblade of draktharr / Yoummuu's ghostblade / Guardian angel / the black cleaver.

I dont understand why Yuumi Yuumi recieves nerfs when she has two damage dealing moves her Q and R and they are relative weak compare to most other ultimate and abilities. Nami with a full damage combo no items no ultimate can do 295(+9)+230(+9)=543 damage yuumi does with no ultimate at max 225(+12) so 237 damage janna can do 160(+6)+195(+9)=370. And yes these number at at level 18 and maxed abilities but overall the concept is the same that other supports can effectively survive and do more than yuumi can alone.

Something that gets overlooked with yuumi i feel is that she is often reliant of her bot lane partner and unless you have verbal or some great communication that can make yuumi miss her Q because her partner walks back and puts the enemy out of the range. Yuumi is strong if her partner is strong such as Sivir, Ezreal and Jinx. Sivir getting nerfed and Ezreal getting nerfed made the yuumi combo with them weaker garen is strong with Yuumi because of Garen's passive and his tenacity gain and silence its not Yuumi that makes Garen+Yuumi strong its Garen alone because he is already an exceptionally strong champion. Seeing garen yuumi in pro play was them using garens strengths and yuumi to poke for him in bot lane and let yuumi scale. Yuumi before level 6 actually struggles in bot lane if the enemy walks correctly around their minions to have Yuumi Q miss. Again Yuumi is fragile and does not win 1v1 situations when roaming unluck most other supports who can deal the damage, have the mobility, or the CC to survive or win. Dont forget mid laners such a Xerath and Velkoz get and now Swain are played as support occasionally Yuumi used to be a semi decent way to counter handle them but now she isnt.

Yuumi slow at 20% is low compare to other support slows and she is often hitting the enemy with the empowered Q so far behind the enemy minions her partner cant get in range enough to act on it and this reduced slow only makes less of chance for her partner to act on it. Yuumi is good at slowing down a running enemy after a teamfight but with a 20% slow compared to the 80% (at late game) enemies will start getting away. league is a fast pace game at higher ranks and Yuumi could survive with her poke to keep the enemy somewhat at bit more distance but her 13 second cooldown leaves her waiting to do that where other supports have 2-3 damage moves or CC to use in that time. Yuumi not attached to her parter cant use very effective empowered Q. Her ultimate also only roots which doesn't prevent the enemy from attacking like a stun or knock up. Her heal is good but but its relatively small only using 1 charge; without using both charges on 1 target other heals are stronger like nami and Sorrakas. Pyke has an ulitmate at shorter cooldown that grants bonus gold executes and resets goes invisible and heals while invisible yet yuumi is considered to strong compared to that?

I will agree that Yuumi did not need a mana regen from her passive. I agree she needed to be hit by CC when dashing to partners with W. I will also agree that her Q damage needed a nerf but the cooldown increase to 13 seconds was not needed and the change to her slow is also not needed.

In my open opinion Yuumi doesnt need the 13 second cooldown for Q and the slow is just fine. Nerfing a champion whos play style and kit revolves around another teammate makes her not only less effective on her own but less effective to the team overall. I think instead of nerfing Yuumi the champions she gets partnered with should be considered -- such at Sivir and Ezreal and Garen two of those three recieved nerfs and one is getting reworked, Sivir and Ezreal + yuumi is not as strong now because of not only the nerfs to yuumi but to the ADC as well and even giving Yuumi her 10/9 second Q cooldown back and leaving her slow as is will not make those pairings stronger. My opinion is to leave Yuumi's slow as is and give her Q its original cooldown and then she will be in a balanced state. She shouldnt be balanced around the pro's or the pro scene because the pros have exceptional communication and mechanics compared to the majority of players; and as i said before Yuumi is mostly reliant on her bot lane partner to do her job well and without that communication its difficult for the yuumi player and her parnter but nerfing her more and more makes that difficulty rise.

I hope this does something but I doubt it will and riot if you did read this I ask that you consider the majority in your balancing not the pros please the majority makes the games community.

2 Comments

SmashinBob9/15/2019, 5:12:09 AM1 votes

Tbh i dont know why yuumi is so good, i almost never lose a lane vs yuumi, and i hate having her as suppport. And I see rarely some yuumis actually playing around her passive, but most of them just never actually even bother to exit and autoattack, even in early all ins, they just sit inside of you and then flame you for dying afterwards. Tbh if she gets nerfed to unplayable i would love it.

Kazekiba9/15/2019, 6:25:04 AM1 votes

Shes ridiculously strong in the right hands, especially in coordinated teams. A lot of people aren't used to high learning curve supports though, and Yuumi proved release-taliyah levels of bad or worse under 5 games, and Release Xin-Zhao levels of broken once you got 20+ games and figured her nuances out.