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Holy Sh** Rito actually listens

Fegone··11 votes·1,724 views

Well who would have thought that. Rito actually listens to the community. The next Season and even Preseason is FULL with awesomeness:

  • Dynamic Queue getting undone woohoo (def. no. 1 change)
  • New Assassin Update
  • Runes reworked next season
  • Continued reworks of old or outdated champions
  • SANDBOX MODE WOOHOOOO
  • REPLAY SYSTEM DOUBLE WOOHOO (no more weird 3rd party apps to record your failures)

The only thing I think is a step in the wrong direction is the plants in jungle. Why? Because they spawn randomly, and most, if not all randomness in a competitive game is completely uncalled for. (That would also include the % Crit Chance on champs like Tryndamere who can 1v1 you when they're 2 levels behind and just happen to get super lucky to crit over and over...) Jungle plants should not be in this game or at least should not spawn randomly, and they should definitely not replace jungle buffs. That's just adding to the frustration when Karma is being a bitch to you that day.

Reconsider this concept of plants in the jungle, leave the jungle as it is. The rest is awesome. Finally a preseason and new season we can truly be excited for.

34 Comments

Risk of Fate5 votes

I'm kind of hesitant on having a practice mode. Pretty sure people are going to want to bring back the "Unskilled player" option and having people rag on me for missing my skills.

Graves You shouldn't be missing Charms! There's a practice mode now, go back to bots if you're going to have less than a 90% accuracy. Illaoi What do you mean you couldn't flash that wall? That's no excuse when you can just see which walls and the distance you can jump Riven There's no reason that you shouldn't know how that champion works, you have a sandbox

Ahri LEAVE ME ALONE! I'M NOT FAKER

zorlox773 votes

I don't know if that will actually be a problem but your point is valid.

Jorencice1 votes

Honestly just ignore them.

Unskilled players reports did jack shit back when they existed.

And if they ever bring it back it will comtinue to not affect people.

Irelia Bot1 votes

That report last I checked was to make ragers feel like they got some revenge on someone who was not playing well in a game.

Meep Man4 votes

I wouldn't be too scared about plants. Based on the spawning patterns listed here:

Each type of plant has a few specified locations per jungle quadrant that it can spawn in and limits on how many plants can be in that area at any one time. Blast Cones for example have 5 possible spawn points per quadrant, one of which happens consistently, the other four of which are occasionally. A quadrant will spawn a Blast Cone around every 3 minutes, and there can't be more than two of them in a quadrant. Their spawn locations are all near interesting walls to cross/junctions to control. Scrying Blooms and Honeyfruit have similar spawn times and rules, though use different spawn points (e.g. Honeyfruit only ever appear in the river along the walls). First jungle clear is almost entirely pre-set. There's only slight variation in when plants spawn (~10s), so you can rely on plants generally having predictable behavior around the start and ends of clears especially. First generation of plants here spawn between the 1:00 and 2:30 range. Early game (until around minute 15) plants only appear deeper in the jungle, so that they don't feel like they're having too strong an impact on individual lanes. As the game progresses additional spawn points closer to the lane start getting used (e.g. there are Blast Cone locations you can use to dive some towers, but they're not going to occur until around 25 minutes). Expectation is, based off both plant spawn locations and who's travelling the map, that junglers will be the primary champions interacting with plants early to early-mid game, but eventually they'll be things that are occasionally relevant to any member of a team. Version we're currently testing is that plants have a 30s growing time (telegraph of when they'll be useable). They'll appear on the minimap once you've seen them, but won't be removed if someone uses them out of your vision until you revisit that spot (like small jungle camps or buildings in an RTS game). While a plant is growing there's no way to interact with it. After they've been used plants leave some withered remains behind for a short time (currently also 30s). As a result you sometimes won't want to interact with a given plant if you're concerned about signalling to the enemy team that you've recently been through a particular area. While there's some variation in where/when plants spawn the script that controls them is also designed so that it will distribute plants fairly between the sides of the map (one team shouldn't get screwed) and will pull back towards average results over time (if spawns have been much less frequent or infrequent than they should be on average for a little while the next period will have more/fewer spawns to compensate).

Plants should not be too impactful. Should be about as impactful as Smite Buffs. Their randomness is similar to Bard chimes. Sure, you might hate it when one spawns in a dangerous place, but chances are there is another version of the plant somewhere better where you can make use of it.

Dominick Destine4 votes

Fuck that, you forgot the greatest change of all time;

Rat-ta-tat-tat name change reverted to Spray and Pray

Fegone1 votes

You're right. Twitch gonna be happy

Irelia Bot1 votes

Still waiting for the Lux Ult name revert...

ProfDrDeath1 votes

If you want Finales Funkeln, you can always play the game in German. XD

Besides, Final Spark almost is the translation of Finales Funkeln (direct translation would be Finaler Funke). Directly translating Finales Funkeln into English would give you Final Sparkle or Final Glitter.

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

Even if (and that's a pretty big if) the removal of smite buffs and the addition of plants are a good idea, they picked a horrible time and approach to implement it.

Considering how fresh the Dynamic Queue cluckerfuck is (considering we still have to deal with it for another month), I doubt many players are assured by their promise to remove plants if they don't work out.

They said that would be removed if it didn't work out and we were stuck with it the entire bloody season.

Ahristocats2 votes

plant shit is making me scarry as hell though, i already hate runes in dota2, i don't want league to be ruined.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Well they have to do something controversial.

We might accuse them of being impostors otherwise. :P

elderscrollash2 votes

yea maybe for this riot dose but maybe they started to but there 4 years late [zombie-nunu-bummed]

SlaktarTasken2 votes

Jeez, just checking in since a pretty long hiatus and what do I see. Lul, plants in da jungle baby. I think I'll be going back to my permanent hiatus, best of luck to you Riot.

Liofa2 votes

Why you fanboys shilling so hard. Quake had replays, this isn't a fucking accomplishment.

Narvuntien2 votes

I am happy, I just feel a lot of these things took too long.

I have been waiting for these things for 6 years.

HorusEye2 votes

The thing I hate most is how each of these requests takes about more than 1 year to create. And during those before 1 year, Riot either ignored them or simply make excuses about why this wouldn't work or so.

Elikain1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ohHORYEr-clarification-on-plant-rng

OP, you don't know what you're talking about. Go inform yourself first before everyone starts claiming "Plants spawn randomly all over the map with no purpose other than to shit on everyone's skill".

Fegone1 votes

Lol, you're obviously not capable of reading. Nobody said they spawn all over the map. Here, this is what I stated:

(...) plants in** jungle**. Why? Because they spawn randomly, (...)

L2Read plox, kthxbai

Elikain1 votes

Did you even look at the link i provided you, with the explanation of what a PRNG is and an actual map (and Riot's map) on where the plants actually spawn or have you came running to inform me i "read" your post incorrectly?

Being thick-headed is not a good thing, dood.

Fegone1 votes

Do the plants spawn randomly in certain predefined places? - yes Is that what I initially said? - yes Does the player have influence where they spawn? - no Does that further or hinder potential plays, especially on pro-level? - yes Should there be any randomness in pro level games? - no

Imagine football, soccer, tennis, or any other competitive sport with any element of randomness. Guess why that doesn't exist.. exactly, because it doesn't belong in professional sports.

Elikain1 votes

Effects of randomness don't exist in sports? That's news to me. Can you predict how your opponents move in, let's say, soccer?

You know the objective of the game, you're familiar with the rules and so is the enemy team. All of the players have specific roles that have their own objectives but align with the team's objective. So you know what the other team is also trying to accomplish but you don't know how they will do it. You can't predict their movements precisely. That's PRNG - RNG in a strictly controlled environment.

Chess is for example, a pure strategic game that has no random elements in it. It is a completely controlled environment. The total number of moves is maybe high but ultimately, it's finite and is never random. Each figure type has it's own movement rules and it's a turn based game so you can't do what you want.

League is not chess. Even if the elements of the game aren't random but are structured and designed to be timed and predictable, you can never know what someone other than yourself is going to do exactly. And that's why people play League for years, as that factor of unpredictability (along with a variety of champions and items) makes it fun and repeatable process on a single map that never feels boring.

Plants are such a small system that is constrained to their spotted areas. Plants are visible on the map so you'd know (just like you know which Dragon Buff is next) what to expect when you approach a certain area. Plant's only PRNG element is which type of plant spawns and where (again, something that's strictly controlled). They aren't lucky boxes any team needs to hit to either win or lose a fight by pure chance. #No system in League has that.

Fegone1 votes

No, effect of randomness does not exist in Professional Sports. Sorry if this is news to you, but I guess someone had to burst your bubble. Opponents in Soccer, Football, etc do not move randomly. The way how they move have nothing to do with randomness. Please do yourself a favor and look up the definition of randomness and what that means, before you participate in an argument about it. Clearly you have not the slightest clue... "How opponents move is random..." .. -sigh

It's part of the skill of a player to predict the opponents moves. Has nothing to do with randomness. And when I flee from an opponent with very little health, and I KNOW there is a plant around the corner that gives me health, I will run there, pick it up, turn around and kill the other guy instead. However, if I turn around the corner and it turns out to be the plant that gives me vision instead of health, because the type of the plant is PURELY RANDOM, then this has absolutely nothing to do with skill. And absolutely doesn't belong in competitive play. Do you want random walls appearing and disappearing in the middle of a soccer field, that can block the shots? THAT would be randomness in Soccer. Not how the opposing players move...

Elikain1 votes

To you, they move randomly as you can't expect a certain reaction from them with near perfect probability. But they do follow the rules of the game and their own objectives (according to the role they are playing in).

So, it's something you don't expect but within a domain that has boundaries (rules of the game and his role). You certainly can't expect for a player to grab the ball with his hands and run, and although this can happen, this is clearly breaking the rules of the game and it's punishable by a judge. Very loosely, this is what PRNG means. Something random but in a strictly controlled environment.

You know where plants tend to spawn and you know how many types are in the mix. You know that certain plant types can only be in certain places of the map and you have minimap notification from them when they appear. They probably have a timer as well. The only thing you don't know is how will they get used and that's dependent on the situation.

Exactly the same thing when you don't know for certain, what a player will do with his ball in a soccer game, from your point of view. You may know what his options are (because the game is predictable as rules dictate) but you cannot read his mind.

Fegone1 votes

This is the biggest piece of garbage text I've read in a long time. No, they don't move random to me. At all. I know what positions they play, I know their objectives, I know where they are going to go. This has zero to do with randomness.

This whole talk about breaking the rules is completely nonsense. In Soccer you can break the rule and grab the ball with your hand. What does that have to do with LoL? You can't do anything the game doesn't allow you to do. You cannot break the rules of the game. You cannot jump over walls whenever you want. Your analogy is so bad, it could come directly from one of Trump's speeches.

Not even very loosely, this is not what PRNG means. Not even close. At all.

Here, read up my friend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandom_number_generator

You won't have a timer for when they spawn. Please don't spread lies.

There won't be a single Pro Gamer that will support this stupid idea of plants. Because every pro gamer knows an element of randomness has no place in professional sports, and that includes e-sports.

Don't make more of a fool out of yourself as you already have so far...

Elikain1 votes

I didn't say plants have a timer, i said they have timed spawns. Just like small camps. You'll figure it out on your own when you play or you won't even pay attention where they are the moment you use one up.

Again, PRNG is RNG in a strictly controlled environment. I can spout you the same thing from wikipedia if you're interested in the actual definition but considering that you have so much trouble accepting the layman's definition, i doubt i'll want to waste my time explaining on more complicated examples. If you're making small systems, sometimes even RNG can do the job perfectly but for the systems that are a bit larger, PRNG is the safer form of RNG.

In the end, i don't really care about convincing a naysayer. There are rules under which these plants have to operate and the only thing that's random is where exactly they spawn - if there are areas and not specific spots for each plant type. Which means you just won't be able to exactly find the same plant in the exact same area to plan some interaction with it, you'll have to do it on the fly and plants give you a heads up spawn notification on the minimap, i believe 30s or so prior to their spawn. So you already know a lot about the plant mechanics and rules, and where it breaks for you is that locations are pseudo-random?

Stop shitting out excuses. If you'd like, you can go full goat mode and sit the entire Season 7 out because of plants alone. I don't really care. The bottom line is that if it doesn't work out, Riot is going to remove them instead of iterating again and again to force them in for an entire season. But some iteration isn't out of the question. This patch will be in for 3 weeks so that Riot has that one extra week to see how things go.

Fegone1 votes

OMG do you not read your own comments? So you're saying you didn't say plants have a timer? Look at the comment you wrote RIGHT BEFORE when you said that, you said, and I quote:

"They probably have a timer as well."

Do you even realize how much of a hole you're digging right here?

And it continues: PRNG is the safer form of RNG

Anyone with the slightest experience in science will tell you just how absolutely b.s. this statement is. PRNG is what we settle for if we don't have access to a true RNG. PRNG is always a software controlled RNG and will never outclass a hardware controlled RNG. Ever.

Where it breaks for me is not so much the locations. What breaks it to me is more that it's one of the 3 possibilities at a location. I can hunt down the last member of the enemy team, and if I kill him, get an ACE, run to base, and finish the game in my favor. But if this guy who runs from me has a health plant popping up in his escape route, he can turn this around , kill me, and win the game for his team. Neither me, not him, will know what plant it is. Only once we arrive there the outcome will be determined, based on a random appearance of a plant. So a random plant will determine the outcome of games? This is utterly b.s... Nobody in professional plays would ever condone this system.

Elikain1 votes

Obviously, we don't agree on what "timer" means. Their timers aren't like major objective timers, but they have timed spawns. They don't fucking pop out randomly on the map, whenever they want.

In fact, i'm done discussing this with you, go read it yourself: Plant Spawn Full System Design (PBE). It was written by a Rioter and i hope you brought your dictionary, because he goes into the details on how plants work. I'm afraid i won't be there to hold your hand.

Also, this made me chuckle.

So a random plant will determine the outcome of games? This is utterly b.s... Nobody in professional plays would ever condone this system.

As if that never happened in games already. You losing the game off a single person who throws it, only for the enemy to get the objective, push you into the base, systematically wipes you out and wins because the death timers are long enough.

One plant does not have the power to affect the game to such a degree. You are melodramatic to the end. And while we're at it, i did check your profile out on op.gg. And now i know why you're so dense and uncooperative - you're barely a silver surfer. Your elo certainly limits your understanding how this game works at it's core but i'd think that someone of your rank would at least be open to the possibility that he doesn't know even the basics like he should. What ultimately breaks it for people like you is that they think they know everything and these long-winded arguments only confirm how much you actually don't know.

Fegone1 votes

Now you're just pathetically trying to climb out of that hole that you created for yourself and then fell into. You're arguing like Trump. You say something and then you say: "I never said that".

"They probably have a timer as well."

"I didn't say plants have a timer."

Do you see how that looks to anyone reading the stuff you write?

And no, this has never happened before. No game had been lost before because of a random spawn or appearance of something. So far, nothing appeared at random, anywhere (as far as I know and remember). And losing a game because 1 person throws has nothing to do with a random element. This has to do with skill, or the lack thereof. Two completely different worlds. And you, as someone who has a higher rank than me in this game, should know that. Unless of course, you simply bought this account that you're using, which would explain a lot too....

If someone shows the lack of knowledge and experience about this game, it clearly is you. You argue like a little child that doesn't get his way, throwing out arguments that disintegrate as soon as they hit the fresh air. All by them self. Without me even interfering.

Elikain1 votes

{quoted}

Obviously, we don't agree on what "timer" means. Their timers aren't like major objective timers, but they have timed spawns.

Go read what told you to read and stop bothering me with your broken logic and "he said she said" arguments. I told you exactly what i meant by that. And you can read it firsthand from a Rioter who has designed that system with others.

The bottom line is that you're trying to rationalize everything and you can't because because you don't know everything. That's the definition of something being random - not following the rules, unexpected. Doesn't matter what we're discussing. Human errors or not, it is what it is.

Fegone1 votes

"He said she said" arguments are only broken if taken out of thin air. You however, provided enough substance for such an argument yourself, that the attentive reader will see it without anyone having to even point it out.

Do yourself and everyone else a favor and read up about randomness and what (P)RNG really are. Because according to your logic, opposing soccer players move randomly, because I don't know where they are going. Oh really... do you think EA is using a RNG to determine the path the AI players move in FIFA 2016? I don't know where the bots in LoL move either, if I play a bot game. Do you think Riot implemented the bot moves using a RNG or PRNG? Which use their abilities based off random numbers? All that has zero to do with random numbers. In fact, I would even go as far as to bet that there is currently not one instance of a random number in the code of LoL (apart from stuff that happens in the client, bot team composition, opening chests, obtaining keys, etc) With the one exception of Critical Strikes.

Please ask yourself why that is? Exactly.

You are so pathetic with your way of thinking and yet you can't see the light even if someone lights it up right in front of you.

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

Meddler has noted that if the plants system is not met well and breaks the game they will pull it out

Helium Cube1 votes

Just like Riot Lyte

Keepe1 votes

So long as the replay system does not make my computer lag, refer to HotS which forces everyone to download Replays whether they want it or not, I am fine.

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