Shen Needs a Buff

Samxnxsuke·Jan 20, 2017·13 votes·2,086 views

What I think about the Shen rework is fairly good with an amazing mechanic with his Q, but there's something about his W and E that needs some changes. His W needs to be able to block spells too instead of just basic attacks and it needs to last 4 seconds or so. If a Yasuo and Braum can have their shields up for 4 seconds so should Shen, it be fair for Shen's long cool down on the ability. Now let's talk about Shen's E, they need to give the damage reduction back like his old E before and that was the thing that defined Shen as a good peeling front liner. Also they need to fix his scaling Health its really bad.

25 Comments

Mecha MaIphiteJan 20, 20174 votes

I just want a more consistent dash. Right now, the hit box feels really wonky.

I wouldn't say let his W block everything for four seconds, that seems way too much. He could easily just W on his ADC, and they'd effectively have a kayle ult on them if they didn't leave the area.

EstebanElGuapoFeb 4, 20171 votes

as a minor change how bout what they did to maokai's ult and kindred's ult. don't change anything to shen's W but make it stay centered on him for duration. less benefit for someone your leaving behind you but more useful for himself at all points in the game.

Mountain WardenJan 20, 20174 votes

I second the improved hitbox clarity on his E. Maybe even make it a bit bigger as sometimes I swear I can hit it and still come up short. One think I no longer like about shen is he ultimate. I know that ability basically defines him, but I just don't see it as doing it's job. It takes too damn long to cast and usually late game your opponent will have chunked down the shield by the time you get there. Not to mention you take yourself out of the fight for a few seconds while you channel it which makes the ability much less useful late game.

I'm not suggesting a change for his ult since I don't even know what would work well for his fantasy, but I just don't like it in its current state.

Asayake 5150glowJan 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mountain Warden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BO4EcGqF,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-01-20T01:11:40.177+0000)

I second the improved hitbox clarity on his E. Maybe even make it a bit bigger as sometimes I swear I can hit it and still come up short. One think I no longer like about shen is he ultimate. I know that ability basically defines him, but I just don't see it as doing it's job. It takes too damn long to cast and usually late game your opponent will have chunked down the shield by the time you get there. Not to mention you take yourself out of the fight for a few seconds while you channel it which makes the ability much less useful late game.

I'm not suggesting a change for his ult since I don't even know what would work well for his fantasy, but I just don't like it in its current state.

And early game the shield is tiny.

I really want Shen to be changed to a duelist, since his Q is so satisfying to use, but I know that's not gonna happen with all the Shen mains out there wanting basically the opposite.

EstebanElGuapoJan 30, 20173 votes

Old shen did more dmg but did it upfront, then had more dmg mitigation to eat return dmg. He was a duelist. But more in and out and in and out. Though if you wanted to stay in you started off with an early trade advantage and if you bought dmg items like new shen needs you would end up in the same place as a duelist. Old shen had his dmg upfront and significantly more, new shen has his spaced out over 3 autos and needs to hit with 2 or 3 of them against people with dashes and blinks just to trade similarly to old shen. New shen has no dmg mitigation really against non autos and his dmg mitigation vs autos is placed firmly in a place that is more likely to end up where the enemy use to be but isnt currently which is where u use to be as ur chasing him out of it or as he is chasing u out of it. it doesn't come to you quickly enough unless u stand still and wait for it.

p.s. Forget old shen Q heal. Take the heal off of it. Leave it as point and click dmg and old shen still beats new shen. Heck you probably could just get rid of the old Q alltogether and just leave the Passive, WER and i'd probably still prefer old shen over new because he would still beat the crap out of new shen.

p.p.s. Just because old shen had opportunity to play passively and a lot of people utilized that including prob all na pros. Doesn't mean he didn't have an agressive playstyle as well which you may not have utilized and which apparently na and eu pros never bothered to either.

Asayake 5150glowJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Old shen did more dmg but did it upfront, then had more dmg mitigation to eat return dmg. He was a duelist. But more in and out and in and out. Though if you wanted to stay in you started off with an early trade advantage and if you bought dmg items like new shen needs you would end up in the same place as a duelist. Old shen had his dmg upfront and significantly more, new shen has his spaced out over 3 autos and needs to hit with 2 or 3 of them against people with dashes and blinks just to trade similarly to old shen. New shen has no dmg mitigation really against non autos and his dmg mitigation vs autos is placed firmly in a place that is more likely to end up where the enemy use to be but isnt currently which is where u use to be as ur chasing him out of it or as he is chasing u out of it. it doesn't come to you quickly enough unless u stand still and wait for it.

p.s. Forget old shen Q heal. Take the heal off of it. Leave it as point and click dmg and old shen still beats new shen. Heck you probably could just get rid of the old Q alltogether and just leave the Passive, WER and i'd probably still prefer old shen over new because he would still beat the crap out of new shen.

p.p.s. Just because old shen had opportunity to play passively and a lot of people utilized that including prob all na pros. Doesn't mean he didn't have an agressive playstyle as well which you may not have utilized and which apparently na and eu pros never bothered to either.

He has a shield against non-autos, btw.

EstebanElGuapoJan 30, 20171 votes

yea new passive, but you can't choose when to use it, you cannot choose to use it before or after an ability it will only go off during an ability, i'd prefer to use it after the taunt not during. you can't rank it. it is relatively uncontrollable due to the way they designed it. I think if given an option i'd give it up for them giving back the 50% dmg reduction during taunt. something that happens when u expect it to.

{quoted}

And early game the shield is tiny.

The old W you could choose to put however many ranks into it u wanted as needed and could make it go off exactly when needed to soak up whatever u needed to soak. autos, spell combos. turret shots, ignite true dmg. vlad transfusions. anything. at anytime. I miss that. :(

And A Real HieroJan 30, 20171 votes

As a Shen main I like 2 things about Shen, saving ass and dueling.

And A Real HieroJan 30, 20174 votes

The buffs Shen actually needs:

Regular 200 energy pool (skillcosts half of current cost). Lower cooldowns on both W & E. Wonky E hitbox fixes. Instant passive upon activating abilities, except W.

Cloud273Jan 20, 20173 votes

Didn't even bother to read the thread. Have an upvote.

MaclockJan 21, 20173 votes

If Riot can rework his Q into someway, that we can position the spirit blade by throwing that blade to a specific location(like Orianna's Q), it will be more fun. Its kind of stupid to recall the blade every time, if we want to position the blade for ambush.

allsin03Oct 3, 20181 votes

if only spirit blade did double percent dmg when passing through enemy champs plus auto activation on passive it would be effective

Meep ManMar 13, 20182 votes

Let's not make Shen grant near Invulnerability during his W shall we? I can agree that the damage reduction on his E would be nice, but the rest I disagree with.

allsin03Oct 3, 20181 votes

the cd times is 20 secs... which makes up for the invulnerability

BlueBilberryJan 20, 20171 votes

Given that he was nerfed quite a bit in the past season, it wouldn't surprise me to see get one or bumps.

Chembaron YamadaJan 20, 20171 votes

If you let him block abilities too and increase the duration to 4 seconds that would mean you are able to make your whole team invulnerable for 4 seconds. And that almost instantly.

Meanwhile Taric's ult is making his team invulnerable for 2,5 seconds and that with a 2,5 seconds delay. Do you really think that sounds reasonable? Having 4 seconds of complete invulerability for your entire team every few seconds? Not gonna happen, that's for sure.

The damage reduction on his E could be something to give him back, though.

SamxnxsukeJan 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If you let him block abilities too and increase the duration to 4 seconds that would mean you are able to make your whole team invulnerable for 4 seconds. And that almost instantly.

Meanwhile Taric's ult is making his team invulnerable for 2,5 seconds and that with a 2,5 seconds delay. Do you really think that sounds reasonable? Having 4 seconds of complete invulerability for your entire team every few seconds? Not gonna happen, that's for sure.

The damage reduction on his E could be something to give him back, though.

Hmm true true but his sword is so hard to position already. I suppose just make it last longer around 2-4 seconds upon leveling it or something.

And A Real HieroJan 30, 20171 votes

Rather than longer effect or a op effect, lowering the cooldown so it is more available would help a lot.

EstebanElGuapoJan 30, 20171 votes

Taric's ult makes 'people' invulnerable like tryndamere. They carry that with them wherever they go. Shen's W under the other guy's scenario makes a small area of ground invulnerable area for allies. Invulerable people can chase and reposition but the Shen W area of ground can be avoided by enemy or moved away from.

Chembaron YamadaJan 30, 20171 votes

Taric's ult doesn't make people invulnerable like Tryndamere. Tryndamere can still take damage, he just can not die (so if his HP reach 1, it doesn't go down anymore). Taric ult prevents any damage.

And the suggestion here is to increase the duration of Shen's W to 4 seconds AND giving it invulnerability. That means 4 seconds invulnerability for your whole team every 12 seconds, every 7,2 seconds if you have 40% cdr.

You can play around Taric's ult since it is highly telegraphed and has a long cd. So if you engage a teamfight and you see him ult, you can disengage. When his ult is down, you can engage again and fight.

This change would make it simply impossible to team fight against the enemy. He would have a uptime of invulnerability for his whole team above 50%. That is just ridiculous. You can't disengage and then engage again to fight against that. Because the cd is so insanely low. He will ALWAYS have it up if you try to engage.

I don't know how someone can defend that kind of suggestion tbh.

EstebanElGuapoJan 30, 20171 votes

I prefer the new shen W be removed entirely myself. I was just pointing out to you that it isn't as bad as you think. Just trying to point out that it isn't comparable to Taric. his is a buff to mobile champs. It moves around with you. Shen's is ground placed with 18s cd. Its so easily avoidable that it's laughable that they consider it useful honestly.

I agree about the cd being considerably different against an ult, my argument was more that you are comparing a champion buff that isn't rooted to the ground against one that is.

SamxnxsukeJan 31, 20171 votes

His Q makes him a fighter... a fighter with low health to even duel any one at top.