How is this okay? Like does no one care that it's been a year of this?

Only Fabio·Feb 24, 2018·4 votes·883 views

Champion.gg - Janna Support Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

This champion has been a scourge to play against in ranked and only brings a toxic feeling for people that play against her. Before all the support mains that freak out that janna is balanced, calm down. League tends to have a rotating meta that supports multitudes of playstyles that tend to last maybe a couple months. How is it that this champion is allowed to run wild for almost a year now? I know that items also play a factor into this such as redemption and ardent but we just got out of ardent censor meta just to be thrown back into it. Very few champions can deal with the amount of peel that she provides and even less that can kill an adc through her shields. Her ult isn't even used as a mass disengage against teams most of the time now and is usually used against one person while everyone just stands in it for a massive heal. They say assassin's should counter her but a majority of the assassins that did were reworked into something that doesn't instant burst anymore (i.e. Le blanc, Talon, Rengar before this patch.) This is honestly a bit ridiculous looking at the statistics of the game and seeing that the top 4 win rate supports (excluding sion) are all abusers of the ardent, redemption combo. There can easy fixes to this by simply increasing the cost of the items or nerfing the % ratio that the shields are increased by. Even can tweak the numbers of their base/growth stats on their shields since Aery also applies a larger shield upon the existing one. There are simple fixes to return the support meta to a nontoxic stable place where champions don't reclaim 1,000+ hp from a shield with only 3 items on the support.

32 Comments

Colton147Feb 24, 20183 votes

Janna and Lulu are mechanically intensive and have a very high skill ceiling.

Only FabioFeb 24, 20181 votes

While I can say lulu has a decently high skill ceiling, Janna on the other hand does not. Janna is more so positioning while her hardest mechanical trick is to fast tornado someone out of their dash.

HaIlMonitorFeb 24, 20181 votes

Compaired to what? I would say Thresh Bard Nami are all much harder the Janna, and honestly the only real reason I might give lulu as hard to play is because she is super overloaded and gets to make better or best decisions.

Milton FletcherFeb 24, 20182 votes

Honestly Janna doesn’t seem as strong as before.

The only support and ironically the ONLY champ I think needs to be HARDDDDD nerfed is the sad excuse for a champion that is Lulu

By god if I ever saw a lulu main ever try to defend this champ I will shove my head down a toilet and flush that shit while screaming “the balance team hates melee champions” 59 times .

F u c k polymorphh

I shouldn’t have to constantly ban her if I want to play the game .

AzadetheFeb 24, 20181 votes

You do realize Janna's adjusted power is not in Ardent! It's in a rework that happened in October that gave her extra on hit damage based on her move speed, in exchange for a reduction in her base move speed. When a level 5 E Janna self buffs, she effectively has 150+ damage on her on hit basics at pretty low levels. So instead of being a champ that ends games with 6000 damage and mostly barrier botting, she's now actually doing damage. She's monstrous when build AP/move speed now. And she still does the same thing for her adc/team in addition. Her move speed is slower, but her impact is higher.

I can still kill her pretty reliably. But I've also had one 1v1 a Jhin at level 3 and go 11/0/3 by level 8, because she has the most free self buffing damage in the game, which puts Mundo's Masochism to shame.

And no. That's not Censer.

Only FabioFeb 24, 20181 votes

tends to also be a problem innately inherited by the champion by the so called "Balance Team" not considering how the changes in the game are going to impact different champions. If you look at it though, the list of win rate on supports goes Janna, Nami, Soraka, Lulu, all of which abuse ardent censor for almost over a year now. The playstyle is now supported even more so since poke and shielding is supported by Aery. This could also be boiled down to the fact that a majority of these champions do an absurd amount of damage early while having some sort of sustain or shielding. This game hasn't allowed bruiser style champions in the game for almost 4 months now and the recent patch supports it in addition to these champions not receiving much of a change even though they have some of the highest playrates while having the highest winrates. If we take an example of a champion with a low playrate being nerfed from the past (Volibear) at his peak when he first got the buffs to his w, he had a 3% playrate while having I believe was a 53% winrate or so at the time.

AzadetheFeb 24, 20181 votes

Censer is NOT why those champs generally have above 50% win rates. They have above 50% win rates simply because heals change the momentum of fights, and you cannot have a heal champ who doesn't have some self survival mechanism in the form of damage. Even in Season 4, Nami was a 53% champ. Way before Censer. Her CC, heals, and ability to focus on sustaining 1-2 targets just has always out presenced other lane options (Mage, tank support), when played correctly, unless the opponent can force bubble misses like Akali Vayne Kalista .

They don't do absurd damage early. I play Nami. I maybe do 1/7th of an HP bar at level 1. It takes an AP build to even remotely damage with her. But at level 1, most adcs don't outrange Nami either. Tristana can safely be poked by Nami on auto attacks at level 1. So can Vayne.

Bruisers atm have the highest win rates of any champs. Get that out of your head. Not every "Bruiser" is Volibear. Top bruisers generally control lanes and have ever since the runes came out, particularly Alistar Chogath Garen DrMundo Kled Nasus Renekton Riven Urgot are all doing extremely well.

Only FabioFeb 24, 20181 votes

Nasus is a tank, Mundo is a Tank, Cho is a tank, and Renekton has a below 50% winrate. As for Nami having a decent poke range is fine, though I never really have much of a problem with name as her mechanical ceiling is higher. You can also argue that fighting at level one with poke is fine, but have to factor in that laning phase isn't just lvl 1. Their kits do support fighting hard into winning lanes and peel harder into harder ones. If we really want to get into an alistar discussion, he does fine due to his innate tankiness and ability to solo carry teamfights if played correctly. The current top lane meta doesn't support fighting in lane as much either and many of those champions tend to end up being hard peeled by ardent censer supports. Peel tends to be a higher winrate in soloqueue just because you can protect your carry to an extent of near unkillable if played correctly which is also supported by alistar. This is coming from a Renekton main and definitely can say he is not okay right now, the loss of fervor made his lane bully mechanic significantly weaker.

Only FabioFeb 24, 20181 votes

Riven's powerspke comes from Roaming much like Camille, as does kled. This is also supported by the increase in the play of sion being a lane bully with the use of e max and comet, which he is countered by Camille and Riven. Though the main point of this thread is to try and get Ardent censer supports off the pedestal for at least a couple of months. Slight bias on this comment but even every person that I play with does not enjoy having to play an ardent support or playing against them and want at least a different variety for some amount of time.

AzadetheFeb 24, 20181 votes

All the Renek mains I know in plat are well over 68% win with that champ. You must have bad luck. I have 3 as Duo buds.

Nasus is considered a bruiser.

Only FabioFeb 24, 20181 votes

Renekton mains still know how to abuse the champion but still doesn't change the fact he doesn't have a keystone. This winrate is coming from his own page from statistics and the fact he's not as strong as he used to be. Nasus can be considered a bruiser all he wants but build path says otherwise.

AzadetheFeb 24, 20181 votes

His build path says he survives from life steal, Armor penetration, and 1500-2000 hit Q's. His "tank" item build is a consequence of the fact his damage is already high, so people even him out. He often goes item 3078 item 3053 , btw.

Darius only ever builds 1 AD item. Illaoi only ever builds 1-2. That's what a bruiser is; a high damage output source that doesn't rely on itemization for damage.

Renek...... doesn't benefit from a rune? wtf? lfmao.

Only FabioFeb 24, 20181 votes

Darius highest winrate build path, Black cleaver, Titanic, deadmans/steraks. 3 damage items, Illaoi, 3 damage items, jax/irelia, 3 damage items, renekton 4 damage items, bruisers are champs that benefit from itemization with damage, health, and some tanky stats. Nasus is a weird case where he can be considered either but majority of the time, he tends to be a tank. Renekton has no specific value of going these keystone compared to fervor. Fervor buffed all of his damage higher than press the attack and dealt more damage than electrocute throughout the course of the game. He loses damage doing his usual trade combo of e auto w Tiamat auto q auto e for maximum damage output. There's also e auto w r auto q Tiamat auto e but that's a bit out of a lot of peoples knowledge, which are both weaker than before. The new keystone would be the first actually viable keystone for him without having to settle for a damage decrease. (also, renekton buffs this patch were a joke of a bandaid for his problems currently.)

AzadetheFeb 24, 20181 votes

I know you consider item 3053 and item 3748 to be damage items, and they are - to an extent - but at least on the part of is a tank item. It's been tweaked to give decent base AD, but it's MOSTLY about the shield, the tenacity. Hydra is very low AD; it's more damage scaling based off HP than off AD, and more HP.

Only FabioFeb 24, 20181 votes

that's like saying BC is a tank item. Considering they all give health and ad. Steraks shield and tenacity is meant for bruisers while tanks can use it, not the best for them.

AzadetheFeb 24, 20181 votes

BC's Hp is negligible compared to the two, has more built in AD, and no functional defenses.

Titanic has HP regen, 700 hp, and damage scales off HP..... so if you're building AD items, it's bad.

Sterak's shields up to 1800 hp and has Tenacity, and some HP.

Only FabioFeb 24, 20181 votes

Titanic doesn't have 700 hp anymore. Titanic is 400 hp 45 ad and 100% health regen. Black cleaver is 450HP 40 ad and 20% cdr and steraks has over 70 ad on some champions late game, wouldn't call them tank items.

NemeBroFeb 24, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Only Fabio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BNvfR7m9,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-24T04:46:10.469+0000)

Nasus is a tank

No he isn't, he's a juggernaut, or a "bruiser".

Mundo is a Tank

No he isn't, he's a juggernaut, or a "bruiser".

Cho is a tank

Some would argue but no, he is probably also a juggernaut.

Build path does not equate to champion class. Playstyle does.

Only Cho comes close to fulfilling the functions of a tank.

AzadetheFeb 24, 20181 votes

right and even then..... sometimes cho starts 1-2 AP items, and only builds full tank after because he no longer needs AP after he eats some targets.

Only FabioFeb 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Censer is NOT why those champs generally have above 50% win rates. They have above 50% win rates simply because heals change the momentum of fights, and you cannot have a heal champ who doesn't have some self survival mechanism in the form of damage. Even in Season 4, Nami was a 53% champ. Way before Censer. Her CC, heals, and ability to focus on sustaining 1-2 targets just has always out presenced other lane options (Mage, tank support), when played correctly, unless the opponent can force bubble misses like .

And why should some champions be rewarded for their own poor build path or rune path for no form of sustain. Leaving tanks out of this discussion for this as they usually don't have those mechanics for a reason. Ravenous Hunter, Triumph and second wind are in the runes for a reason as are vamp scepter and every item that it builds in to.

AzadetheFeb 24, 20181 votes

Please clarify your question. Are you equating all sustain forms to heals from a healing champ? That never even comes close to being the same thing...... except Ravenous hunter (which I use on my Nami builds *whistles)

What I'm confused about is your question about a poor build path. What poor build path?

Only FabioFeb 24, 20181 votes

I'm saying that champs that shouldn't be healing are getting more value than they should out of these supports instead of taking a form of sustain. You can even go build paths on certain champs to deal more damage then other champions, be tankier than other champions and be perfectly fine to sustain 2vs4 with a healing support. (example of tank Diana currently with a Soraka vs Zed, Renekton, Kogmaw and Zyra.)

Only FabioFeb 24, 20181 votes

Even champions such as adc's that have built full crit and have no other form of sustain can sustain longer than they should against multiple people or against a brawl in bot lane vs a tank support with sustained damage adc. Back in season 3 the effect of the Trinity of playstyles balanced this game out more than it did currently in bot such as poke, all in and sustain. Now the bot lane has almost no other composition (except ali) except sustain as it is currently the strongest comp against both currently.

AzadetheFeb 24, 20181 votes

Depends on the support's build, cooldowns, and the adc/teams ability to work with them. I can tell you this: Heal supports aren't why adcs snub getting life steal; it's because item 1055 is usually enough, and the bulk of the rest comes from Fleet Footwork, and more importantly, they know that Crit/Lethality generally ends games quicker, even if they manage to almost die every engagement. I've seen a major increase in adc duels since Fleet Footwork was buffed, and that's why.

It just activates too often and when it scales to crit multiplier, it heals far more than life steal does.

Ironically, a Kalista with item 3153 will beat a bot with a healer hands down, because the item just sustains her so well she doesn't need a healer.

She's broken in the right hands. The "sustain" adcs aren't feeling oppressive because of a healer; their kits outright are too powerful. For example, Fleet Footwork + Life steeal takes into account the multi target crits on item 3085 when calculating how much to life leech for the adc. This is why champs like Twitch KogMaw Jinx Kalista all snowball:

They all have kits which use Runaan's and multi heal themselves and is strongly supplemented by Fleet footwork: They all can heal more than non Runaan's adcs.

Heal supports aren't really carrying adcs. If anything, they're carrying junglers, mids, and tops. An adc usually wastes the support's heals, and in the universe if a 2v2 bot, once a healer is on cooldown, a caught adc is a dead adc. It's when a healer starts roaming and applying 600-900 heals to tankier junglers and mids who do not have self sustain, that heal supports shine.

Watch bot lane some time and see how often a Soraka or Nami actually makes an adc immortal. An adc who can die in 2-3 hits isn't going to be saved by a laning healer. Even if you do heal them, it's a 4 hit death, which is really easy to pull off. That's why I don't generally Nami vs Draven . My heals aren't worth snot there, but my long range roots/stuns on Morgana Lux Zyra might.

Only FabioFeb 24, 20181 votes

fleet footwork has problems within itself but seems to be necessary on a majority of adcs just for the movespeed+ heal. Outliers to this Draven Lucian . A normal kog maw build doesn't usually need runaans for it to sustain with Lulu as it has enough cc, disengage, and shielding to push through the damage while dishing out their own. Varus and Kogmaw are starting to see more of item 3091 first due to the increase in early powerspike while having a sustain support.

AzadetheFeb 24, 20181 votes

They get the item 3085 because it pairs well with their Caustic % damage which applies to all three targets. They get item 3153 because it applies to item 3124 and .

I have seen some item 3091 but again.... it's because item 3085 applies it. But they are majority sustaining themselves. Lulu is one of the weaker barriers with Pix.... her primary role is secondary artillery and her Ult. If her ult is down, Kog is usually toast if he isn't built.

I'm telling you. Fleet footwork is carrying them more than the supports are. An energized auto with FF can heal for 286. A Nami on standard active item build heals for about 200, and her CD is longer, since a fast AS can proc FF in like 2-3 seconds.

Lucian doesn't need it simply because he often builds item 3153 and can dodge about half the incoming damage.

Still, most Lucians I've duo'd still build FF or the previous Warlord's and manage to go 17/4/18 with full crit/lethality, and I can tell you.... I wasn't brainlessly healing them. They just killed so fast they didn't take damage, dodged half the hits, and FF/Warlord's did the rest. I generally Nami where I'm needed, and pull between 60-70% Kill participation rates with 5-6 KDAs, which means..... I'm with adc..... I'm top.... I'm following Jungler.... I'm everywhere.

Darkin HybridFeb 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You do realize Janna's adjusted power is not in Ardent! It's in a rework that happened in October that gave her extra on hit damage based on her move speed, in exchange for a reduction in her base move speed. When a level 5 E Janna self buffs, she effectively has 150+ damage on her on hit basics at pretty low levels. So instead of being a champ that ends games with 6000 damage and mostly barrier botting, she's now actually doing damage. She's monstrous when build AP/move speed now. And she still does the same thing for her adc/team in addition. Her move speed is slower, but her impact is higher.

I can still kill her pretty reliably. But I've also had one 1v1 a Jhin at level 3 and go 11/0/3 by level 8, because she has the most free self buffing damage in the game, which puts Mundo's Masochism to shame.

And no. That's not Censer.

But that just means that she scales better with AP, so she can now build AP and give even bigger shieds and on hit damage.