Minor Fiora Buff

Lord Malpercio·Aug 8, 2015·13 votes·24,480 views

So, I really like the Fiora Rework in concept. It's great, but it lacks a very important tool that Fiora absolutely needs to accomplish the fencer/duelist fantasy. She's supposed to be nimble, swift, and deadly right? So, why does she feel absolutely immobile? Your Q is short ranged, and if you use it to go in - You have nothing to get out. So, a minor suggestion that might help her 'duel' more, and be more useful in a fight.

Simply, if Lunge hits a vital, it resets completely. This will enable her a bit better trading in lane, darting in and out for quick procs of her passive, and will give her the necessary mobility to actually use her ultimate for more than the heal. Let's face it getting more than 2 of those marks off is nearly impossible as is. If it proves overbearing, numbers could be adjusted, but as is, her kit just does not have the mobility demanded of her.

105 Comments

RiotMeddlerAug 8, 201520 votes

We're with you that Fiora seems to be pretty underpowered and are working on a set of buffs for her at the moment. One of those will increase her mobility, overall though at least for a first set of changes we're looking more to add baseline effectiveness to her. From the look of it we ended up being significantly too cautious about her balance overall.

Current changelist (note, work in progress, so not set in stone) looks like this:

HP / level 80 >>> 92
AD / Level 2.5 >>> 3.3
Q CD 18/16/14/12/10 >>> 16/14/12/10/8 W CD 21/19.5/18/16.5/15 >>> 19/18/17/16/15

ProfDrDeathAug 8, 20152 votes

My question would be, why are you raising the base AD again? I thought that stat was deliberately reduced to lower her synergy with Triforce, and thus the burst she can put out.

PoshrielAug 8, 20154 votes

Then you have to ask, is it really her stats that need raised, or is it going to be another case of a character being too strong when the stats are good, and to weak if the stats get nerfed?

The whole point was to make her more cohesive and consistent of a champion, but this is the opposite, nothing in her kit works together.

Her q makes her dance around the target and gives her movespeed if she hits her passive, doing decent damage. Her w stops damage and cc, and is pretty hard to time right. Her e is auto attack reliant, which slows, but the problem with it is that you're auto attacking for that time, which means you aren't moving for those two auto attacks.

Then you have your r, which is overloaded with damage, that you just can't ever pull off. Then it has a heal? And once again, the heal is set near the place your enemy died, meaning if you want to use it, you better hope the team fight stays right there. In one spot, which is not thematic to the character at all.

At this point in time, it's actually more useful to use your ult on an enemy you don't want to kill, to catch up with an enemy you do. Because once you kill the first enemy, you lose the speed and the enemy team isn't sticking around in the heal all your allies field.

I'm not against change, especially seeing how broken a fed fiora could be pre rework. But why would you make a jumping around duelist have 3 spells that require her to stop the battle from moving. How about make it to where her q breaks the opposite sides vital point during the ult. And decrease the damage of her vital point slightly. That way you're getting the damage, and just forget about the heal, any burst make is just going to break through the heal anyway. Or make it a less powerful heal, and have it only heal you as a H.O.T.

These are all good ways to make her strong without making her stop to have full affect.

RetillinAug 8, 20154 votes

"The whole point was to make her more cohesive and consistent of a champion, but this is the opposite, nothing in her kit works together"

This. She just feels thrown together. No synergy between her spells. When the ult is up you really can't waste time to use your W or E. If you do, you waste so much valuable time. She feels gimped from her own kit.

DJ Di0Aug 8, 20152 votes

{quoted}

We're with you that Fiora seems to be pretty underpowered and are working on a set of buffs for her at the moment. One of those will increase her mobility, overall though at least for a first set of changes we're looking more to add baseline effectiveness to her. From the look of it we ended up being significantly too cautious about her balance overall.

Current changelist (note, work in progress, so not set in stone) looks like this:

HP / level 80 >>> 92
AD / Level 2.5 >>> 3.3
Q CD 18/16/14/12/10 >>> 16/14/12/10/8 W CD 21/19.5/18/16.5/15 >>> 19/18/17/16/15

What would be you opinion on Riposte's interaction with tower shots?

I remember on the pbe the tooltip stated 'block all incoming damage', yet it never seemed to work on towers.

DecritAug 8, 20159 votes

Any plans on giving her passive a jungling bonus, or to change the parry so it' s more comfortable to land ( twitch reaction + skillshot), or are you pretty much satisfacted with that?

LankPantsAug 8, 20153 votes

Do you have any plans to do anything with her ult? Right now it feels very underwhelming in all aspects except the heal.

CilethAug 8, 20153 votes

I really think a solid buff would be to give her a passive to ignore unit collision. Call it duelist poise or fleet footed or something. Since she is so dependent on getting behind targets it is very difficult to actually do that outside of Q. Thematically it makes sense, being a nimble fighter. At the very least give ignore unit collision when she ults. On another note about the ult...The delay before you can proc marks needs to be removed 100%. You should be able to R>Auto and have a mark go off. Right now the delay is somewhere between .5-1s and that can be like AA>Q that doesn't proc anything.

SKOBODOAug 8, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Q CD 18/16/14/12/10 >>> 16/14/12/10/8

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with 40% CDR her Q CD at rank 5 will be 4.8, reduced to 1.92 if she hits an enemy. That seems pretty mobile to me!

It's currently 6 sec and reduced to 2.4 sec if she hits an enemy (assuming the reduction works like I think it does).

KingsgraveAug 8, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with 40% CDR her Q CD at rank 5 will be 4.8, reduced to 1.92 if she hits an enemy. That seems pretty mobile to me!

It's currently 6 sec and reduced to 2.4 sec if she hits an enemy (assuming the reduction works like I think it does).

What's wrong with that? She has to hit something to be mobile.

ThunderThighs10Aug 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What's wrong with that? She has to hit something to be mobile.

In the same sense that irelia is dependant on minions and monsters that are low to be mobile aswell, It's not easy to pull off all the time out of lane.

Knight AuditorAug 8, 20156 votes

I wonder if it'll actually be enough to do anything.

It's not like her W, E, or R are pulling their weight. You've jammed ALL her power into her passive and Q alone because you made W extremely restrictive in its usage (Long cooldown, directional, roots her while in use, short window, I mean, you did test this in the real world, right?) and required investment in E to make it any good. R is only reliable if you activate it on an enemy that's just about to die so at least the heal gets off in a team fight, or to peel for real carries.

She doesn't hit a real power spike until around level 11-13 when she actually has her Q at a low enough cooldown to reliably pursue enemies and strike multiple vitals, has enough points in E that the critical damage is noticeable and the cooldown also isn't oppressive, and she's hopefully built up enough AD, sustain, and movespeed to have any hope at all of fighting.

And she won't get there because someone'll just pick any of the countless champions that can utterly shit on her at every stage of the game.

I was really hoping her kit would be the one redeeming part of her update, but nope. People can't even figure out what to build on her any more since she seems to need every single stat except mana and AP just to become functional, and that's not possible.

RetillinAug 8, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Auditor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJ6Jdwut,comment-id=00010008,timestamp=2015-08-08T09:40:10.260+0000)

I was really hoping her kit would be the one redeeming part of her update, but nope. People can't even figure out what to build on her any more since she seems to need every single stat except mana and AP just to become functional, and that's not possible.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels she needs 6 items to really hit her power spike. Right now you HAVE to have so many stats from items that without snowballing out of control I always feel weak.

XyltinAug 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Auditor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJ6Jdwut,comment-id=00010008,timestamp=2015-08-08T09:40:10.260+0000)

I wonder if it'll actually be enough to do anything.

It's not like her W, E, or R are pulling their weight. You've jammed ALL her power into her passive and Q alone because you made W extremely restrictive in its usage (Long cooldown, directional, roots her while in use, short window, I mean, you did test this in the real world, right?) and required investment in E to make it any good. R is only reliable if you activate it on an enemy that's just about to die so at least the heal gets off in a team fight, or to peel for real carries.

She doesn't hit a real power spike until around level 11-13 when she actually has her Q at a low enough cooldown to reliably pursue enemies and strike multiple vitals, has enough points in E that the critical damage is noticeable and the cooldown also isn't oppressive, and she's hopefully built up enough AD, sustain, and movespeed to have any hope at all of fighting.

And she won't get there because someone'll just pick any of the countless champions that can utterly shit on her at every stage of the game.

I was really hoping her kit would be the one redeeming part of her update, but nope. People can't even figure out what to build on her any more since she seems to need every single stat except mana and AP just to become functional, and that's not possible.

The Q is pretty damn strong and annoying. Once she is stronger than you, she can chase you down with the perma Q and if you want to CC her or deal dmg back, the W will block all of it and even slow or stun you.

I played against good and bad Fioras around plat and the good ones rape you after some lvls.

You want an item builds? Phage -> Hydra -> T2 Boots (mercs most of the time) -> BotRK -> BC. Fiora wants AD most. After that there are 3 options: BT, IE or GA (or Randuins or Banshees if you play against mostly one dmg source). BT is the natural choice because it agian gives you more HP and the LS on all these items is insane. IE does more dmg but is not needed. Last item is probably LW. Can be built earlier

Phage -> Hydra -> mercs -> BotRK -> BC -> BT/IE/GA -> LW/GA

Fioras offensive stats: AD > AS > Crit. Crit is not really good on her or needed. It never was. AS is ok, but BotRK is more than a simple AS item. It gives AD, LS, the passive and active. She doesn't like pure AS items.

Quints can be AD or AS, both is good. reds are AD. CDR in the mastery tree. Definitely spell weaving and blade weaving.

And to Riot: If these buffs are going throug, I can see a lot of good Fiora players stomping lanes everywhere. I see a lot of people getting Triforce before BotRK which is crap. No BC (phage) for the follow up MS after you hit a vital spot and they never get enough CDR to spam the Q. The bad ones nearly always use the W active instead of reactive (sometimes it is oks to use it actively). And the E is an AA reset, use it right.

The HP per lvl buff combined with the W CD buff is nice and OK. But the AD per lvl buff is probably too much and Q doesn't need an even lower CD late game. Early 2 sec less is ok, even 4 sec would be still fine I think.

Knight AuditorAug 8, 20151 votes

I really don't think using a build identical to her pre-rework one is a good idea, as that is the build you're suggesting, but if it works for you then it works for you. I didn't like it in my testing, personally, and I haven't run into a good Fiora yet so the jury's out there.

XyltinAug 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Auditor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJ6Jdwut,comment-id=0001000800010000,timestamp=2015-08-08T15:22:05.263+0000)

I really don't think using a build identixal to her pre-rework one is a good idea, as that is the build you're suggesting, but if it works for you then it works for you. I didn't like it in my testing, personally, and I haven't run into a good Fiora yet so the jury's out there.

That is not the identical build. Pre rework she didn't use BC or at least not as early and as often. Also putting a phage in front of hte hydra if possible is not an option she used pre rework.

And the build was taken from some pretty good Fiora players I met or pros that played her the last days. And the build works, if you know how can get through the laning phase. Fiora is not a normal top laner in these days and so a lot of people are also not used to having a smaller front line or that maybe another person has to engage and she waits for the right time to get to the target.

A lot of her problems come from team compositions and the meta. You can try her in the mid lane if you get some magic dmg elsewhere and you can see that she works there pretty well and probably fits most meta comps better (like Irelia mid).

Knight AuditorAug 8, 20151 votes

We're going to have to agree to disagree. You and I could probably dick wave about how we're both plat and we both watch pros and neither of us can be wrong on the internet until we're old.

XyltinAug 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Auditor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJ6Jdwut,comment-id=000100080001000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-08T15:35:13.898+0000)

We're going to have to agree to disagree. You and I could probably dick wave about how we're both plat and we both watch pros and neither of us can be wrong on the internet until we're old.

I will never get old.

Dance DarkAug 8, 20157 votes

Meddler, outside of her power level, I'm a bit worried about Fiora's team fight core gameplay. Right now, the most practical way of playing Fiora in team fights is to use your ultimate on a focused or low target, get a single Vital off of them, and proc the extremely potent AoE heal for your team ASAP. To me, this doesn't fulfill nor align with her playstyle fantasy, is not fun, and is not very interactive or dynamic. Also, there's the clash where Fiora's ultimate gives a lot of true damage on a tank or burst on a squishy, both which Fiora wants to do, but it's more effective to use it on an already almost-dead target to guarantee the heal quickly; using it on a low target feels like a waste of potential damage, particularly when Fiora's damage and passive refreshes cannot keep pace in a team fight without it. I don't mind that the ult gives an AoE heal, but I don't think it's executed well. What are your thoughts on these views of the ultimate?

I was also worried about her identity and focus, as both her sustained and burst damage are not notable for her squishiness, her team fighting outside of her ultimate is not ideal, and her 1v1 ability mid to late game is very bad compared to upper tier split pushers. But with a lower Q cooldown, she could fit better into doing sustained damage, which would help her split pushing. I just wanted to bring up the issue of her role in the game, ask what you guys envision it as, and hope it's kept in mind when making her stronger.

okkrrrrrrrrtttAug 8, 20152 votes

I have been spamming the new fiora for a couple of days now. Overall I had doubts of the rework but the kit is surprisingly good. I don't think buffing her cds will be good because that will just make you guys 100% nerf her afterwards. I suggest some qol changes such as the ult cast time.

Currently your ult showss but you can't proc it for a million second. You have to wait for some odd reason. Like when I proc her passive and auto reset it with my ult I can't proc it right away.

And please add vitals to camp monsters and make her viable jungler as well for diversity. Those are the only buff she needs. You can cap the passive damage against monsters easy

EvilToasterofFPAug 8, 20152 votes

I don't think Fiora is very weak in those areas, though it would help. My biggest issue with Fiora is her laning phase, build path, and her passive. Against any champion with waveclear, she struggles to keep up until she gets Tiamat, but by rushing Tiamat, you must forgo any defensive stats, mobility items, or lifesteal (until you finish hydra,) and by that time it's not hard to just have your lane shoved into you constantly with no chance of actually interacting with your opponent. And of course by having Tiamat, you forfeit your ability to manipulate minion waves as well as you could without it.

Her passive is mostly random and literally decides if Fiora can play up or not depending on if it decides to show towards Fiora or away from her, and if the opponent doesn't like the side it's on, they can just walk away from Fiora and reset the passive until it's favorable, then Fiora has nothing to play off of for 15 seconds.

I think she's fine full build, but her lack of laning power forces her into a build path that's not optimal just to keep up. I would be happy with a buff to her Q that just let it hit multiple targets in a line, like a Yasuo Q. It would give it another dimension to master, not just having to be in range, but attacking from the right angle to line up multi hits. I think it would be really fun and would help Fiora just enough to deal with minion waves, and maybe even jungling.

Get NerfedAug 8, 20151 votes

I have played the new fiora quite a bit scene it was released and although i did find her to be super under power and weak at the beginning, it was only because she was a whole new concept, and i really have grown to enjoy the champion. i don't think she needs any buffs at all but instead just needs some practice :)

XElite109Aug 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Get Nerfed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJ6Jdwut,comment-id=0001001a,timestamp=2015-08-08T19:12:08.544+0000)

I have played the new fiora quite a bit scene it was released and although i did find her to be super under power and weak at the beginning, it was only because she was a whole new concept, and i really have grown to enjoy the champion. i don't think she needs any buffs at all but instead just needs some practice :)

mans name is Get Nerfed he's clearly lying

AdanChristoAug 9, 20152 votes

you stooges ruined my favorite champ, her ult is a piece of shit, im 0/5 using this fucking champ and people are dodging whenever people pick her, cuz they know she sucks balls and eventually we'l lose (ranked)

HauntAug 9, 20154 votes

{quoted}

We're with you that Fiora seems to be pretty underpowered and are working on a set of buffs for her at the moment. One of those will increase her mobility, overall though at least for a first set of changes we're looking more to add baseline effectiveness to her. From the look of it we ended up being significantly too cautious about her balance overall.

Current changelist (note, work in progress, so not set in stone) looks like this:

HP / level 80 >>> 92
AD / Level 2.5 >>> 3.3
Q CD 18/16/14/12/10 >>> 16/14/12/10/8 W CD 21/19.5/18/16.5/15 >>> 19/18/17/16/15

This post was made after about ONE day of Fiora being available.

How in God's name is this even CLOSE to the amount of time it should take to know if a champ isn't good? Don't get me wrong, she very well might need buffs, but this is definitely not enough time for you to go, "Yeah we're with you. She REALLY needs it." Everyone and their dog lost as Yasuo when he was released too, and he turned out to be one of the most infuriating champs to ever face. You guys like to say the PBE is a very small set of people, so not all data can be brought from it, but what about the countless threads of people SAYING they played it. The ones recommending buffs and nerfs to the champions? The ones that MAIN the champion you're looking into? The only one I've seen get noticed on any of the recent things is MarineRevenge. People like myself that make threads about the new Skarner and such that have played him forever get neglected 90% of the time. The PBE seems like it's just a way of saying "This is who is being buffed/nerfed, these are the new skins. No we're not going to change it if you don't like it (Maybe in a patch of 2 after it's live)."

I really don't like how the the buffs and nerfs to champions have been getting determined lately. It really feels like you guys don't listen ot a lot of us. But when it's ONE DAY after a rework, you're already ready to buff Fiora. There is no consistency.

SlashStrikerAug 9, 20151 votes

i am glad that riot will buff Fiora. IMO Fiora is too weak. She can only dream defeating champions like Yi and Irelia

So I wanna share my thoughts

[Q] 18 sec cooldown ability with 65 +55% bonus AD. Why not total AD? This ability does not give any damage by leveling it Riven scales with Total AD and cast her Broken Wings 3 times! It has CC and the cooldown is lower Gangplank Q scales with total AD AND can CRIT AND has 5 sec cooldown! Also applies on hit effects and barrels

[passive] 3% of 500 health is 15 true damage which happens once every 5 sec or once every 2 second if the vital point appears where you want it to appear. Not to mention that if you dont like the current Vital point you have to go AAAAAAALL the way to the turret and come back to fight and this thing is over and over and over again. The range of this thing is not shown and even then the range is way too high. There is no other way to change the vital spot. Yi and Irelia does 15 to 20 true damage every basic attack at rank 1 vayne also has 20 + 4% target max health as true damage on every 3rd basic attack at rank 1

[E] 50% bonus attack speed for 2 basic attacks OK why not 250% bonus attack speed at rank 5? Its only 2 basic attacks. This is not better than any ADC with critical strikes because it doesnt deal any different damage

[Ultimate] OK her ultimate requires brains.. OK I GET IT! Fiora is the hardest champion in the league BUT Malzahar just presses R so why dont you make her Q with 1 Sec cooldown while Grand Challenge is actived? I still have no idea how to teamfight... Or while Grand Challenge is Actived when Fiora hits a Vital spot her Q resets entirely. Now she doesnt have untargetability like before so whats the problem not give her resets?

IMO people are just ignorant and refuse to see how weak fiora is right now because they remember how badly she kicked their behinds and now they are laughing she kicked my behinds as well but i am not satisfied see her that weak

Las PlagasAug 9, 20151 votes

I'm pretty sure those changes wont save her at all... I felt like She needs infinity edge, blood thirster, trinity force and Hydra just to be freaking decent....

Cant you please increase the lunge range? It would really help...

Leo4everAug 9, 20151 votes

The Fiora rework on paper seams good, but when you take it to the practice not so much, I agree with the new Q but it needs another charge like it was before because she seams slower and not that much of a dueler, her W its cool its fine the way it is, a bit hard to land but you can do it with practice, her E well its good for some champs but for a garen or a nasus....dont know man, and her R that needs to change the game is too fast to many things to get away with, too much cc...please fix that ult its not fun...its and ult that works depends on the situation that if your team is good or the one you are fighting sucks....and the ult should be something to decimate your opponent on a warrior assassin thats what its for and the new fiora ult just dont fit the champion, I am a long time fiora player used to love the champ but am droping it...wish I could refund her but been with me for too long to say the truth almost no one likes the new fiora, she is underpower, she feals slow and powerless when facing the kind of champs she have to in the top lane....for the moment ill be playing akali or Darius....but I am kinda mad and sad my main reason to play this game was Fiora....and you turn it in to this thing so damn slow scaling and so boring....fix her up please....

MasterVidallisAug 10, 20151 votes

Buffs are needed, but there is a bigger problem Meddler. I like her kit, but not her ult. I'm not sure how to make it work and I have tested it plenty in real games. In 1v1's it can be strong, it takes a while but as long as the opponent doesn't have a way to hard disengage you and just wait it out it's ok. Plenty do though.

But in team fights, unless your team is ahead, for a fighter that builds damage items positioning on team fights is everything, because you don't want to step into AOE or get in range of all their carries at once and get bursted down too fast. Her ult requires you to focus your positioning on burying your face into an opponent for an extended period of time. I feel like she has to be a lot more tanky for this to be usable in team fights, but her currently scaling require her to build a lot of AD to matter. So you're relying on your teammates to kill your target fast enough to get the heal field off and even then...

The heal field is strong but people move around a lot in team fights, even it if goes off which requires already a lot of things to work out, for it to help you would need the team fight to still be going on while it's up AND for enough teammates to be fighting on it, so if the enemy is running away, or their priority target just simply moves out of it your team just won't get much healing since they have to go to where those targets are.

Here is what it comes down to. Ults are on long CD's and for this reason across the board they are designed to be nearly always impactful, you can still lose the fight but they always do something substantial unless you mess up badly. The contribution and effectives of her ult is very situational, even if you play it well, it too often can have no or minimal impact due to too many constraints. It's just not what I want to see in an ult, it's supposed to be a high moment for a champ and it just doesn't feel that way.

LathanwalkerAug 21, 20151 votes

Are these set of buffs still in the works?

xl Kirito lxAug 8, 20153 votes

I'd just be happy if Fiora's Q didn't draw minion aggro. It's incredibly hard to Q onto a vital, and then walk away, when minions deal more then your Q did.

DragoonRuinAug 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'd just be happy if Fiora's Q didn't draw minion aggro. It's incredibly hard to Q onto a vital, and then walk away, when minions deal more then your Q did.

So you want Fiora to have a get out of Jail Free card with her Q so she can waltz up, deal her Q damage and not get any kind of minion aggro? Seriously, every champ deals with Minion aggro. Miss Fortune's entire passive is made useless every time a minion so much as sneezes at her, all melee champs draw aggro when they attack around minions. Why do you want Fiora to be the exception to this when her kit is loaded with so much stuff! True Damage, Guaranteed Crits, Mobility, a damage blocker, and a HUGE AoE heal?

Lord MalpercioAug 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So you want Fiora to have a get out of Jail Free card with her Q so she can waltz up, deal her Q damage and not get any kind of minion aggro? Seriously, every champ deals with Minion aggro. Miss Fortune's entire passive is made useless every time a minion so much as sneezes at her, all melee champs draw aggro when they attack around minions. Why do you want Fiora to be the exception to this when her kit is loaded with so much stuff! True Damage, Guaranteed Crits, Mobility, a damage blocker, and a HUGE AoE heal?

Someone has clearly never played this game if they don't understand how minion aggro functions.

DragoonRuinAug 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Malpercio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJ6Jdwut,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-08-09T21:13:55.648+0000)

Someone has clearly never played this game if they don't understand how minion aggro functions.

Soo... What are you saying? Anytime someone AA's a minion, or deals physical damage it generates minion aggro. Spell damage doesn't trigger minion aggro. I'm not quite sure what your trying to get at.

Q - Lunges dealing PHYSICAL DAMAGE, and applying ON hit Effects. Why shouldn't it draw minion aggro?

Lord MalpercioAug 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Soo... What are you saying? Anytime someone AA's a minion, or deals physical damage it generates minion aggro. Spell damage doesn't trigger minion aggro. I'm not quite sure what your trying to get at.

Q - Lunges dealing PHYSICAL DAMAGE, and applying ON hit Effects. Why shouldn't it draw minion aggro?

Minions do not aggro from AAing minions. The only time aggro applies is when a basic attack hits a champion. Lunge is not a basic attack; it is unable to crit, it is classified as a spell and not an auto-attack enhancement, therefore should not draw minion aggro.

DragoonRuinAug 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Malpercio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJ6Jdwut,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-10T03:18:04.955+0000)

Minions do not aggro from AAing minions. The only time aggro applies is when a basic attack hits a champion. Lunge is not a basic attack; it is unable to crit, it is classified as a spell and not an auto-attack enhancement, therefore should not draw minion aggro.

Yes your right, and sorry for that Typo, I meant when champs AA other champs. Everyone know aa'ing a minion won't draw aggro. Lunge deals physical damage just like Miss Fortune's Q - Double up. Which also cannot Crit, and gets minion aggro if it hits a champ, just like Lunge. Again I ask, why should lunge be different?

LaniakeaAug 13, 20151 votes

You seriously dont see a problem in this:

You use Lunge, when u go back, u get MORE DAMAGE from minions to yourself THAN YOU DEALT with lunge ??? Most of the time it's 1/3 or even half your hp. I have played this game since beta and I have never gotten so much damage from minions on using just one spell on any other top champion...

Correction: I never got so much damage on Fiora pre rework by using one spell.

So there must be something wrong with minor damage comparing Fiona pre-rework to post-rework. How did minions suddenly started dealing more damage to fiora? What's the point of using spell if u get more damage than you deal? Instead of Q add spell that instantly takes 200 of your hp.

You seriously want to tell me that's ok? That you just can die from minions by trying to trade enemy, and that enemy doesn't have to do anything at all?

DragoonRuinAug 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You seriously dont see a problem in this:

You use Lunge, when u go back, u get MORE DAMAGE from minions to yourself THAN YOU DEALT with lunge ??? Most of the time it's 1/3 or even half your hp. I have played this game since beta and I have never gotten so much damage from minions on using just one spell on any other top champion...

Correction: I never got so much damage on Fiora pre rework by using one spell.

So there must be something wrong with minor damage comparing Fiona pre-rework to post-rework. How did minions suddenly started dealing more damage to fiora? What's the point of using spell if u get more damage than you deal? Instead of Q add spell that instantly takes 200 of your hp.

You seriously want to tell me that's ok? That you just can die from minions by trying to trade enemy, and that enemy doesn't have to do anything at all?

So, basically your asking to be given completely free harass? Seriously, learn to bully and harass and TRADE when its beneficial. No reason at all you should be able to mindlessly spam her Q with no risk and all reward. Learn to use it better.

FatesDefilerAug 8, 20153 votes

I really like that idea of letting fiora manually do with her ult what used to be automatic.

EPG LenderAug 8, 20153 votes

@meddler @Lord Malpercio

Personally I really enjoy the new Fiora, she is fun to play but I do agree that her mobility is lacking for a squishy champions with no range, her ult is weird (but I do enjoy it, the numbers are weird), and W/E could use slight buffs on CD's. I'll just leave a list of changes that I think could help Fiora.

Buffs (not all of these changes are necessary just some ideas, even 1 would help her vastly)

Let her Q reset (only once in a short time window) if she strikes a vital, if they chose not to use the reset during the short window it does it's normal 60% cooldown reduction and if she uses it to just escape or after the reset Q it goes on its normal cd. So good Fiora's have options they can either hit 2 Q's in quick succession or hit the one on the 60% CD which would be better for Ult situations. This gives Fiora strong in and out like a real fencer, increases her dps, and makes her ult easier to pull off in teamfights.
Give her W a passive where either she avoids unit collision or gains bonus movement speed when approaching an enemy champion.
Make W a like less static.

Nerfs

Not really a nerf as much as a fix. Improve the AD scaling of the heal on her ult and lower the base heal. Tank Fiora OP.

NicknameMyAug 8, 20152 votes

Compensate it with some nerfs to her broken ultimate heal. It wins teamfights alone. Because of it, people play tank Fiora just to use the base heal which is stupidly high. Nerf the bases here because who thought that 700 would be balanced? I feel like it should be 20/30/40 (+150% bonus AD) per second, resulting into 100/150/200 (+750% bonus AD). This would also make building AD vital if you want to use the heal efficiently. Also, for a squishy Fiora, it is harder to proc the Vitals than a tanky one, so you get rewarded for a harder to land heal.

moghorAug 8, 20152 votes

Her e feels like it has a bit too long cd especially early on maybe put it at 11 base cd and lower by 1 per rank

A Prop PhoneAug 10, 20152 votes

I have a lot of games with old Fiora, probably over 500. I made it to plat with her.

After a dozen games with the rework I only have a few comments.

CD's feel way too high, players will only take one level on W and it's 22 second CD. I get that it's dangerous to completely block an enemy spell too often, but odds are you are only ever going to land it on an auto anyways. I would like to see it's CD cut in half if it blocks an auto attack, if it blocks a spell it gets the full CD.
I like the passive. With Q it's fun to harass in lane and it has good damage. The problem is it causes minions to agro, so even though you did good damage you will still lose the trade most of the time. Passive procs need a bit better healing early.
Even though you can Q harass a lot and be ahead in trades, there is no way to all in for the kill. Going for a combo into your ult just takes way to long. Most of the times I engaged with a very clear advantage I ended up chasing the enemy to their turret with 2 out of 4 vitals proc'ed and nothing I could do. I don't really have a solution for this one.

So far I've only had success with Fiora if the enemy actually tries to fight you. This lets you actually use W (since it roots you) and you can maneuver better. If the enemy has an escape you probably won't ever kill them without flash up.

Lord MalpercioAug 9, 20151 votes

As it stands, Fiora is simply just 'Absurdly High Risk for Little Reward'.

SlashStrikerAug 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Malpercio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJ6Jdwut,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2015-08-09T18:24:49.177+0000)

As it stands, Fiora is simply just 'Absurdly High Risk for Little Reward'.

not really she is a fighter master yi and katarina are high risk high rewards

Lord MalpercioAug 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

not really she is a fighter master yi and katarina are high risk high rewards

Yi, not really. Kat, yes, certainly. But let's not get into hardcore discussions on other champions. If she's supposed to be a fighter, why do her bases exist in such a low status while her AD/AS scalings are so high?

ck4444Aug 11, 20151 votes

Fiora is my main she is the reason i start play lol, well now is all broken. here is my idea Q shorter cd abit but make it go thou ppl (like yaso) so you can hit other side of weak spot. her ult need to slow enemy and reset Q every time hit that enemy.

1 800 ON TILT Aug 15, 20151 votes

I feel like Fiora should move in a direction that hasn't really been moved in before. When I first saw her changes I immediately loved the idea of the dancing duelist. Currently she does non of that. I was thinking of making her like a kiting mele that is so unique since EVERY mele atm is dive dive dive hard hard hard. Fiora should stay away look for opportunities to dive in then leave and come back over and over. In the hands of a skilled player always just barely too fast for you to catch. Striking quickly but never really giving you the chance to hit her back unless she messes up or you outplay her.

LegacyDAPAug 15, 20151 votes

I might get downvoted for this, but can we also get some sort of counterplay for her passive? Other than don't farm if it's facing towards her direction, and farm when it isn't.

ThunderThighs10Aug 25, 20151 votes

I agree that the new rework Fiora needs some more attention to, I have played a lot of champions in and out of meta but have never had as much difficulty as with trying to play with the new fiora, her kit is amazing but it's just so hard to successfully pull off her ultimate that usually I just target the next person to die in a teamfight and bop them to heal the team. Even with the perfection combination and use of her E, Passive and Q when it comes to poking it just dosen't do much damage. One final thing to mention is that Pre-Rework Fiora was OMEGA strong late game. Now she does absolutly little damage late game because since she's so squishy in teamfights she get's annialated first when she goes in so you have to build some armor MR and HP early on which cuts back your power significantly since she is such a build based champion. Her new kit is nice in the sense that it requires good timing but it's just too much difficulty with such low reward that it would be much easier and effective to just play another champion top lane. It's fun to play her thought because it's such a challenge but at this point she needs a buff to her armor scaling and AD scaling. Thanks Meddler for paying attention to the boards!