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Don't gank a losing lane,but...

Markus Vakarian··4 votes·1,544 views

Ok,i often pick champions that are not very strong in early game so i just stay in lane to farm. Now,i have some problems vs ganks,even if i use wards (that's not the problem) because it seems i have bad peripheral vision and i just don't move my eyes from farm to river every 2 sec to see if someone is coming....that's my problem ok. Sometimes it happens that i die very early in the game and since i'm playing a champion that's already weak early,i'm very behind my opponent,so i ask for help

  1. Jungler or mid/top ignores me
  2. i usually die again and ask again for help
  3. they ignore me again and they say "play safe omg"
  4. i'm losing farm because farm under tower is not easy for evry champion (early game)
  5. i start feeding because they know i'm weak and they can dive too (in ganks)
  6. People who ignored me starts raging because i'm feeding

Wait a moment....you CHOOSE to not help me,so whatever happens in my lane,you can't say anything to me. It's my fault,not yours but just shut up and accept it. And if i answer to their flame (i usually do just to explain that "you didn't want to help me so now this is the situation") they start asking for report

As jungler i know i can't help everyone if all lanes are in trouble,i understand.....but i never flame someone who is feeding because his lane is babysitted.

20 Comments

Project Riven3 votes

The only reason a jungler needs to gank your lane is if he feels that your turret is in jeopardy.

The only reason you're getting ganked by enemy jungler is because you're pushing too aggressively.

The only reason you're getting out ganked is because you're not watching the map for enemy jungler.

The jungler doesn't owe you a gank. The jungler will not gank when he feels it's not needed.

A gank is a bonus to you. It's not his responsibility to win your lane for you.

If you're losing lane by a margin of 3 kills, you should be defending to the best of your ability, not continue to feed. For the jungler to come and try to get you back to come even with your opponent is a waste of his/her farming time and also time that he could spend snowballing a role/champion that matters in the late game.

Markus Vakarian1 votes

that's not what i wanted to talk...read again

Project Riven1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Markus Vakarian,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aw9nvx2f,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-02-10T13:29:04.549+0000)

that's not what i wanted to talk...read again

I did read what you wrote... sadly, the flaming part, nobody can help you with that. If your lane is losing even though you're turret hugging, then don't feel bad that your lane is loss or that somebody is putting the blame on you. If you're playing a weak champion, I don't understand how you can be behind from ganks. If you're not pushing, nobody's gonna gank you.

The only time when your opponent turret dives you and get away with it is when they're extremely ahead... I'm talking like 5/0. In situations like this, I would say just give up outer turret and focus on farming near inner turret. At this point, if your jungler or mid isn't coming top to help even though top opponent is still applying heavy pressure at your inner turret, then the game is pretty much at a big disadvantage, because this would assume that your mid and bot lane is also being pressured hard that they can't even leave lane to help you.

You could possibly just give up inner turret as well and force the laning phase to end and everybody group to defend a lane. Or you could give up inner turret and force top opponent to go to another lane while you farm top.

When your opponent turret dives you, it's wise to not just stand there and try to out trade them because if they have the tendency to turret dive, they most likely already have an escape route planned or know that they can sustain turret damage, kill you, and get away with it. Rather kite them around and use turret to your advantage.

If your opponent is camping range minions, waiting for you to last hit and then harass you, then they most likely picked a champion that is hard counter to yours. In these match ups, you should probably have teleport and not ignite anyways for the sake of better farm (go back when your opponent goes back or dies) and helping other lane rather than stay top and get harassed. If they picked a hard counter, your top lane is loss anyways, it's just a matter of what you can trade for your turret loss (dragon, mid lane turret, helping bot lane getting their turret), but never tp to secure a kill. A kill for your turret is never worth it.

With all that said, I can't imagine which top lane champion you would pick that is weak and can't last hit minions at turret. It's either you don't know how to last hit minions at turret or you don't know how to play that champion at all seeing you don't know the damage output of that champion. Any champion can last hit minions at turret. Most melee minions take 2 hits from turret and you can last hit. Range, you might have to auto once, let turret attack, then last hit (this takes planning).

That's pretty much all I can share with you.

Markus Vakarian1 votes

There is a mid way between "stay under tower" and "push" most of the time i'm in the center of the lane (minions are,so i'm closer to my tower) but there is a strange coincidence that i like champions with no good escapes (jumps) and since i said that i have problems with peripheral vision,even a normal gank can be fatal for me

I'm trying to play mid more than i can,so i have less chance to die,but even mid sometimes i just can't do anything,

These are the champions i like to play Anivia Cassiopeia Malzahar TwistedFate Do you see good escapes?

Project Riven1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Markus Vakarian,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aw9nvx2f,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-10T15:05:52.031+0000)

There is a mid way between "stay under tower" and "push" most of the time i'm in the center of the lane (minions are,so i'm closer to my tower) but there is a strange coincidence that i like champions with no good escapes (jumps) and since i said that i have problems with peripheral vision,even a normal gank can be fatal for me

I'm trying to play mid more than i can,so i have less chance to die,but even mid sometimes i just can't do anything,

These are the champions i like to play Anivia Cassiopeia Malzahar TwistedFate Do you see good escapes?

Those champions as top? The only champion I see without an actual escape is Malzahar. TF you can stun and hope to get away, Cass you can ult, Anivia you can wall and stun, but these aren't real escapes. Unless you want to play Riven or Gnar, not many top champion have real escapes anyways. If you're gonna play those champion, why not just go mid since retreat is shorter.

It's like playing Leona top and hope to do good? If your weakness is map awareness, you should probably not play top as those champions. Also, if you lack map awareness, top and mid are probably not your lane.

I'm not understanding "stay under tower" and "push".

Your playstyle would fit in jungle or a support/adc where there will be another person to ping for ganks and ward for you. Maybe it's something to consider.

Markus Vakarian1 votes

Mid i said i'm trying to go mid but even mid i have champions without escapes

Top,i don't know i have played kennen in these last months. He has speed boost but if they can reach me,i'm dead because squishy

Bot is not my lane because support is boring and as adc i suffer so many enemy supports,because again i play adc without escape Ashe MissFortune Sivir Jinx Leona jumps on me = i'm dead In TF someone jumps on me = i'm dead

Mid is where i play better

Meep Man3 votes

As someone who plays Top Lane a lot, I have a couple tips for you.

  1. Try and freeze the lane where it starts or let your lane push into your tower. This means only basic attacking minions to kill them, not injuring them. This lets their jungler have a harder time ganking and your jungler an easier time ganking. If the enemy is able to gank you under your tower without them having any advantage, then there is a problem with their champion design. By advantage, I mean health, major crowd control, damage, or defense advantage.

  2. The tankier you are, the harder you are to gank. The more mobile you are, the harder you are to gank. The more crowd control you have, the harder you are to gank. Damage gives nothing in a gank unless you can kill one of them, which is unlikely if you are getting ganked since it is advantageous to gank a lane that has an advantage, but cant quite get the kill.

  3. Damage and the ability to carry late game makes you bigger target to gank by both teams.

Remember these and you wont have nearly as many problems with a Jungler.

As far as flaming goes, thats not good for any role no matter what and those people need to stop playing.

Spookzie1 votes

What lane are you in? A jungler has to decide if it's worth to come to gank your lane. He's got to make a decision based on your wards, potential enemy wards. The enemies health, and the enemies score. If you're losing your lane, say, by like, 3 kills. Sometimes it's a smart decision for the jungler to focus on bottom or mid lanes. If he spends too much time trying to catch you up to your opponent, then that's less time for him farming and ganking the other 2 lanes.

Markus Vakarian1 votes

usually this happens when i'm TOP. MID has shorter lane and i don't die every gank

if i'm behind 3 kills....it's because you didn't start to help when i was behind 1 :)

but what i said is "ok you don't help"...but don't flame later,and don't pretend gameplay from me later i'll just split push

Lord Dusteon1 votes

As a jungler, there's a problem that you really need to farm (and unless you can clear the jungle extremely fast you'll be pretty low during this) to get levels to gank, but you also need gold and experience (which the jungle gives in less amounts even if you power farm it), and you need to secure dragon, preferably as early as possible. There's a lot of pressure on jungle to help get mid fed (since they are normally a high roaming mage or assassin) so you can have 2 ganking champions, and to get bot fed (so they can dominate the other bot lane and help secure dragon). While top is still a lane to try and gank it tends to be an island (since 2 very high priority lanes are on the bottom side and dragon is bot), and once one champion has a lead they can normally keep that lead extremely well (for example, you might want a gank top. But even though that enemy toplaner is only 1/0/0, they have free farm, free sustain, and free harass and kill potential on you. Coming to gank that is extremely risky and has a high chance of 1 or both of you ending up dead).

Otherwise, don't have your reaction to dying early being to try and force your jungler to come top. If you play a bad early game champion you should at least TRY to learn how to play them without feeding in lane phase every game.

Markus Vakarian1 votes

it seems all of you think i wrote only "oh i want ganks"......but that's not what i wrote

MrSc0tty1 votes

Well, I'm sorry bud, but this is how League works:

You can only improve yourself.

If you're looking for tips as to how to get your jungler to gank your lane which A) lacks early pressure due to you playing a late game champ and B) is already behind further decreasing the chances that the gank will amount to anything, I can't help you.

Here's what you CAN do:

  1. Every champ can farm perfectly under tower early game, or close to, by using their abilities or simply autoattacking if they're really slick. everyone knows melees are 2 shots and pop, and range creeps are one-and-a-bit, so you can prime range creeps for farming in between popping the melee ones.

  2. You acknowledge that your map awareness isnt the best, so improve it. I have a little light on the side of my screen that I've set to blink every 20 seconds in the early game. I look at the minimap whenever the light blinks, and I've also trained myself to call out the junglers position any time they appear and take note of which quadrant of the jungle they move into when they go. This helps me know when i'm at threat.

  3. You can play a safer champ who scales well into late. Vlad is a great example-he's got an excellent safety feature in his pool, and helpfully he's also ranged so farming is less risky.

Project Riven1 votes

Sounds like if anyone jumps on you, you're dead lol. Do you think it might be your playstyle that's affecting your outcome? I suspect this is true because you said Leona jumps on you and you're dead. I assume you try to run to safety when she does. TBH, if you go equal in lane, say level 2, it's really a matter of how you micro your champion and focus down the adc. Majority of the time, if Leona jumps on you and you focus their adc on your side of the minion, forcing minion to attack Leona.

As for mid lane, if you're suffering from ganks, only thing you can really do is buy a sight and pink ward. Learn map awareness. Seriously, if you don't have map awareness, you shouldn't be playing MOBA or RTS games. A basic strategy is knowing where their jungler is at to the best of your ability. If they start blue, chances are they'll be at bot by 3:30 - 4 min mark, vice versa.

Markus Vakarian1 votes

again you didn't read. i don't see them coming even if i have wards and i'm not going to watch the whole map (or minimap) every second. It's very disturbing for my eyes to keep changing what i'm watching because i have problems

and for the all in bot,i can focus their ad and trade but if they start the fight i'll die before we can kill their adc because after leona's stuns i'll be alread almost dead

Project Riven1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Markus Vakarian,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aw9nvx2f,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-02-11T07:52:30.553+0000)

again you didn't read. i don't see them coming even if i have wards and i'm not going to watch the whole map (or minimap) every second. It's very disturbing for my eyes to keep changing what i'm watching because i have problems

and for the all in bot,i can focus their ad and trade but if they start the fight i'll die before we can kill their adc because after leona's stuns i'll be alread almost dead

Why does everyone always think/assume that if Leona lands her E, they're pretty much dead.

If you have a good supp, that knows how to CC/heal/damage their adc to put you in even or ahead of them, you'll be fine.

People always get intimidated when Leona lands an E and Q or when a Blitz lands a pull. Stay and fight it through if both team are even in farm and player counter. Countless times, I see adc try to run with like 10% health but still end up dying. Same with supports, they run when they're low. Support should never run first if the battle is very close.

As for the team fight and flaming... only one solution to you my brother. Mute all players.

Wînter Fox1 votes

I always play like their jungler exists and mine doesn't. That way the only surprise I get is a pleasant one

Markus Vakarian1 votes

i can do that but when TF comes,i'll keep playing like my team doesn't exist since they ignored me until that moment (if they flamed) You can't just ignore me,flame and then pretend i join TF

Yes i'll join TF when i reach full build and it's easier to make gold with split push

i should help team even if they flame me and don't help me?? maybe.....but honestly can't do it.

Giovarco1 votes

In my opinion, It's easier to snowball another lane, rather than helping a losing lane. I think this is subjective. However, I never flame a guy who is losing his lane. It makes no sense and doesn't help the team.

Surr20plz1 votes

If this is happening so often that you need to make a post about then STAY THE @#$! OUT OF RANKED!

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

I play lots of "off-meta" top lane, like Urgot Darius Yorick , and there are lots of ways where you can tell there are any incoming threat going your way during laning phase, so imma list out some of them for you:

1) Know your own lane opponent's poking pattern

In every laning phase, each sides gotta poke down his own lane opponent's health bar to know whos the one to dominate lane, and typically, every pplayers will only consider poking in either one way for two:

Riven Typically, stupid Rivens only know how to poke simply by going Q-AA-Q-AA-Q-AA, since it's free & strong anyway. Then for sometime, notice how instead of this pattern, she went berserk mode on you by going EWQ-AA-Q-AA-Q-AA. This seriously indicates that an enemy jungler is nearby, so it's best to bacck off instead of arrogantly fighting back.

Gangplank Not popular, but just a bit easier to explain. Normal GPs would just use their Q to occasionally farm minnions, or mostly use it on you for pokes. His E is the best warning for a nearby jungler ganks.

Trundle Only knows poking by Q. When he casts W & a random E, back off.

Any other top laners you wanna know, just lemme know again.

2) Freeze lane

Your best bet in gaining the most cs advantage would be freezing the lane, where all you do is last hit without touching the minion's health bar to weaken it down. It would only increase the difficulty of enemy jungler to come gank you, which can give you breather for a few more minutes. If you instead decide to push hard into enemy turret, you would only lose excesive minion cs due to enemy lane opponent freezing the minion wave under his own turret, & has a high chance of getting you ganked.

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