800g Attack option --> 
1000g Tank Option --> 
????????????????????? --> 
I wish they could give AP champs an early option to deal with heavy healers too.
Done2538 votesWould be a good way to get rid of early double mpen rush from boots+orb too.
ShroomLord64517 votesExactly
Worst Morde NA5 votesWell some champs need that rush.
If I don't rush that, than as Morde, I wont deal enough damage when MR is built, and will also be kitted even more than I am.
Z3Sleeper2 votesWell if that rush is removed, mages will be forced to look elsewhere and so will Morde.
And if that causes a tank in winrate for either mages or Morde, their respective early itemization options will receive buffs.
saltran5 votesYeah, I want this change basically for this, not for the Grievus wounds tbh.
koshkyra4 votesYou can negate literally 75% of the mpen for 450 gold.
FilDaFunk3 votes
Ηuawei10 votesGrievieous wounds should be a choice not built-in into your generic default itemization
ShroomLord64512 votesIt's already built into the default itemization because Riot are garbage at balancing the game.
The least they can do now though is give the option to grab it early.
Glaricion4 votesNearing a decade of League and no AP bruiser itemization and they are pushing essence flare.
That you don't just throw up your hands and go 'eh, better than having ~90% damage on everyone' is surprising.
Larriet4 votesI totally agree; the Grievous Wounds item for mages, Morellonomicon, shouldn't be part of the default build, but often the flat penetration is worth buying at some point even without upgrading 
, especially if the game ends up not going long enough to warrant Morello (and there's a very good chance it won't go long enough for you to build it as a full 6th item).
FCJAAAAGOOOO1 votesI totally agree; the Grievous Wounds item for mages, Morellonomicon, shouldn't be part of the default build, but often the flat penetration is worth buying at some point even without upgrading
These men speak the truth.
is rare midgame because marksmen want more raw DPS and AD melees can't make use of it because they can't often hit other champions in teamfights without consequences. Thornmail's grievous only procs on getting hit by basic attacks and lasts only 1 second. Mages, on the other hand, really only need levels and some AP/Sorc's and they're free to build whatever they want.
Imagine if 2~3 forms of immediate Grievous Wounds were automatically in every game on each team, by midgame, regardless of the 
nerf thanks to a component that built into a core item. Ew.
In other news: sustain champions that were struggling before the patch can rejoice that 3 Ignites+Morellonomicon won't be nearly as prominent by midgame teamfights now. HUZZAH!
/
/etc. mains are probably having fun getting to do what they want to do this patch. If they're overtuned it will definitely show however (looking at you, 
).
Daddy Ants8 votesAgreed
Sorc + Oblivion = Mage deals true damage to any squishy.
Bears Dont Care17 votesAgreed
Sorc + Oblivion = Mage deals true damage to any squishy.
Or for just 450g, you can deal with their 2600 gold investment!
Rathar Dashing7 votesBut wait, there's more! Add in an extra 270 gold and we'll nearly DOUBLE your order of MR!
Poop Johnson3 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AfZEAcJP,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-01-30T20:34:19.888+0000)
Or for just 450g, you can deal with their 2600 gold investment!
450 gold just doesn't magically remove all magic pen, you'll still be paying for a completely defensive stat with little to no bonus while they are still buying AP.
Bears Dont Care14 votes[{quoted}](name=Brumbo Tungus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AfZEAcJP,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2019-01-30T20:51:54.601+0000)
450 gold just doesn't magically remove all magic pen, you'll still be paying for a completely defensive stat with little to no bonus while they are still buying AP.
It forces them to go into magic penetration instead of an item with cdr and mana like lost chapter. It affords you an longer time in lane.
Let alone if you want to crush their magic pen entirely you pay 720 and now they need a void staff and sorc boots to get rid of effectively.
Everyone complains about being squishy, but everyone builds squishy.
SpaghettiVase5 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AfZEAcJP,comment-id=0005000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-31T00:01:56.661+0000)
Everyone complains about being squishy, but everyone builds squishy.
This so much. No one ever realizes how strong an early game defensive item can be.
TeCoolMage2 votesAgreed - I really hate the whole “remove mpen” complaints when a single null magic mantle is so freakin strong
It’s also abused by some mages while for others it represents an interesting risky choice
wildfox9T6 votesyou'll still be paying for a completely defensive stat with little to no bonus while they are still buying AP.
you still have 2150 gold for compensating that,which i think it's enough
M.pen is strong but MR items are stronger,just for making a random example 
gives 18 M.pen and nothing else while 
gives 25MR (fully negates enemy and half of M.pen) + an useful passive for the same price
Larriet1 votesActually I agree with that course of action, but I can see why people would want to spend that 450g and still not have to deal with the extra 15 magic pen.
Sewer Side1 votesAgreed
Sorc + Oblivion = Mage deals true damage to any squishy.
I mean, this combination has existed since well before 2011.
I remember the community boo’ing Phreak back then when he said running Haunting Guise + Sorc Shoes + Red MPen was grossly underrated early-mid game, well before Liandries even gave Haunting Guise a late game option.
LordForrest2 votesLol, I remember running full magic pen on old Malz back in the day. It was stupid how much damage 1 e did at level 1 let alone later with some ranks and ap behind it.
taleofsonata5 votesSo that mages have 1 magic pen in the whole game? while Ad have billions of armor pen items aka lethality? Don't AD rush like 4 Armor pen items in succession?
Bârd3 votesThey can.
It's usually a terrible idea, but they can.
thefance8 votesThe raw numbers are not easily comparable. Because base armor scales to around 70 or 90 while base MR scales to around 40 or 50. Therefore 18 magic pen is generally stronger than 18 armor pen.
Also, Edge of Night is lowkey garbage. So it's more like, 2 flat pen items + BC + (maybe) LW.
Rathar Dashing4 votesUhh you still have sorc shoes and void staff, those two are both pretty solid at doing their job. Moving the Mpen a bit later on Morello isn't going to hurt. Plus, you'll always have your extremely low base MR to take advantage of.
agac423412 votesno u get magic pen from when u finish it rather then
SHIN0BU2 votesHmm if it stays on morellos but leaves on orb I can actually see this being a good idea.
ValyrianBlade1 votesSo that mages have 1 magic pen in the whole game? while Ad have billions of armor pen items aka lethality? Don't AD rush like 4 Armor pen items in succession?
They don't need to remove the pen from Morello... The point is to shift the gain of grievous wounds from Morello to Orb, and shift the gain of pen from orb to Morello...
SpaghettiVase2 votesSo that mages have 1 magic pen in the whole game? while Ad have billions of armor pen items aka lethality? Don't AD rush like 4 Armor pen items in succession?
no one even said anything about removing the magic pen from nomicon all other? Literally all that was asked if riot could just switch the passives around, that's it.
Critmaster Garen1 votesSo that mages have 1 magic pen in the whole game? while Ad have billions of armor pen items aka lethality? Don't AD rush like 4 Armor pen items in succession?
that one magic pen item is pretty damn strong, and mr is harder to come by than armor.
but id rather they nerfed void staff by 10%, and maybe replaced the 
in with a new component item that has grievous wounds.
would nerf certain mages like 
and generally magic damage against fighters and tanks, while keeping burst against squishies effective. flat magic pen is more effective against squishies.
Worst Morde NA4 votesNo, there is so little MP in the game.
Rather, they should make a lesser item for AP cham pool s that gives grievous wounds.
Frog goes moo3 votesYou don't like being one shotted by zyra at 12 minutes because she built one item? Hahah bronze :)
FCJAAAAGOOOO2 votesAt least people can now buy a NMM to negate the mpen from Boots+Oblivion WITHOUT getting wrecked anyway by the best build in the game. Both Oblivion Orb and Morellonomicon deserved their nerfs.
SexualNuts2 votesI'm down for that, if the GW amount is halved until the full morello is bought
Rathar Dashing1 votesCan we get an image of that one Patrick Star meme
SanKakU1 votesI like this idea, it was the first thing I thought of when I saw new Morellonomicon.
I also like the idea of them giving us a new tier 2 item that goes into Randuin's Omen to give us the anti-critical strikes.
Häxel1 votesNow i wanted also earlier grivious wounds just for consistency and i wanted also just soem magicpen nerfed.
But i can see why early magic pen sucks on midlane. Lets jsut assume the named items are bought on the respective lanes Bot, Top, Mid.
Bot: is good vs lifesteal which gets fairly bought lategame beside maybe 
or 
, but for these early Gw are mostly not worth. Now if a heavy heal support is there (probably just 
) , you can try to get early even if it sucks in the buildpathtiming.
Top: is an okish item and works good vs Champs like or 
, but they can outplay the debuff by simply not autoattackign you (unless you taunt them). Ofcourse that is easier for a Mundo who throws qs and has a free sunfire as for a Trundle who can jsut autoattack you. Even if Bramble is not quite balanced and maybe should jsut be remvoed, you can kinda ingnore it if necesary.
Mid: With 
heal gone in 9.3 where will just be 
mostly. And i tell you what: Your suggested change would completly cripple Vlad and Swain. Gw are based on the champ who holds it and does dmg. Vlads and Swaisn whole Laningphase is balanced around the soly fact that their enemys most likly go first 
item, and then . If People could rush Grivious Wounds vs Vlad and Swain on Midlane, their whole championkit would be half as effective.
And no, the solution then would NOT just to buff their heals cause then we would jsut circlejerk around, make other Gw items far weaker in effect and should wonder why we did your suggestion in the first place.
Of all lanes Midlane may have the lowest number of sustainc ases, but they are the strongest dependent on that. Like Swain falsl super late off and Vlad is also just decent late.
JackMcSnipeyz1 votesMages have longer range and can poke much more safely.
Sustain and healers should be their weakness, you poke them out of lane, and if you cant you play safe and wave clear until you get morello.
Im also pretty sure most mage players prefer the burst stats of flat early armor pen.
Im not a mage player tho so i dunno.
Ifneth1 votesWhy don’t we just switch them? Grievous Wounds on Orb would deter anyone who didn’t need Grievous Wounds from buying it.
Nausicäa 1 votesCool, delete lethality from the game when you do this then.
CØulrophobia1 votesYeah because what game needs right now is less tanks. Reduce Magic penetration on boots AND orb(but not on Morello); then push up the GW only to full items. Destroying an entire champions kit for 900g is ridiculous and unfun. Makes mages less opressive and allows for more tanks that right now might even be named Siege Minion no.17-a based on their performance.
PrinceOfStorms1 votesNo. And in fact Executioner's Calling and Bramble Vest should be deleted. As a Vlad player it's super tilting to play an AD champion that buys Executioner's Calling first back and neuters you for the rest of the game.
Unless you want to give Vlad full Q healing vs minions and give vlad 100% spell vamp on his W.
Cloud2731 votesThere's no shame in building merc treads/qss on an adc. Yes it's not really your ideal build, but if it keeps you alive longer why wouldn't you do it? It's better than just getting burst down the instant the fight starts and being useless.
Dyrreah1 votesI'd prefer this way. Although there aren't many ppl who go mortal reminder early, maybe against the healing cut portion against mundo or smth, but every other way its a huge stat loss. But yeah oblivion orb sorc shoes makes me cringe everytime I pick something tanks. I have a fucking visage and their boot2 and a cheap COMPONENT makes me be as tanky as a lvl1 ezreal.
Thilmer1 votesI have being complaining about this for months.
"God, there is a Vladimir in the enemy team, and a Darius too, and the ADC is an idiot and doesn't want to spend 900 gold on . Guess I'll spend a fucking 2900 gold in to do the grievous wounds myself".
If you are a mage and you want to do grievous wounds, you are totally screwed.