Champs that have like 2 dashes have more MS than immobile champs

LionelLeon·Jun 6, 2015·53 votes·2,296 views

Why is that? the only way immobile champs survive is their MS, but their base MS is like 335 while mobile champs have 340-350 MS and a couple of reposition abilities.

40 Comments

7ha7guy777Jun 6, 201515 votes

Malzahar 345 movement speed. Does this make him the most mobile immobile mage or the least mobile ap assassin?

DrCyanideJun 7, 20151 votes

He has a silence and no mobility spell, therefore he's the most mobile immobile mage. "Assassin" should be removed from his roles.

Sona PingJun 6, 201512 votes

Why wouldn't they? Think about it. If the goal was to make a champion mobile, why wouldn't you give them a decent move speed? If the mobile champion has two dashes as part of their kit, why neutralize their benefit by giving the champion an immobile move speed? Even if we don't like the mobility issue, the reasoning makes sense.

RedCycloneJun 6, 201542 votes

because with every other stat in the game it works this way, except for mobility

if a champion has a way of returning mana, they have shit mana regen for it if a champion has a way of easily sustaining themselves up or getting more HP, they have shit HP and HP regen for it if a champion has a way of getting armor or MR, they have shit defense stats for it

Sona PingJun 6, 20154 votes

That's still a legitimate way of doing things even if it was true. If you want a game character to be better than average, 7/10, at something, a good way is to give them a decent base and a few bonuses, not handicap them due to having a bonus you just gave them.

All have the same base Mana Regen and Mana Regen per Level.
with the the best health Regen in the game with two abilities for it, has higher than average Health Regen and per level base stats and top tier Health and Health per Level, equivalent to Darius.
The champion who is well know to have the highest base Armor and Armor at 18 in the game, , has Defensive Ball Curl, a 100+ armor steroid. and are also top tier in Armor stats and have Armor steroids or bonus Armor in their kits.

Everything you wrote is false; that's not how base stats are handled. You may not like all the mobile champs, but that doesn't mean you should just make things up to try to aggrandize your dislike of them.

TotalJerkJun 6, 201513 votes

Sion : infinite health stacking, low HP per level. Thresh : can stack armor but does not gain any armor per level at all. Orianna Lulu Teemo : get bonus damage on AAs, but has extremely low base AD.

Sona PingJun 6, 20152 votes

Far ends of the bell curve. Also:

{quoted}

because with every other stat in the game it works this way, except for mobility

if a champion has a way of returning mana, they have shit mana regen for it if a champion has a way of easily sustaining themselves up or getting more HP, they have shit HP and HP regen for it if a champion has a way of getting armor or MR, they have shit defense stats for it

Not at all related to what he wrote.

supes the lostJun 7, 20151 votes

You can include Lux in that Bonus Damage on AAs, low base AD group.

ChaoticPineconeJun 7, 20153 votes

the fact that you can point out a few champions with lower base values due to their kits doesnt invalidate the point that some champions have the same base values despite their kits.

there are other examples too - Warwick Gangplank Galio {{champion:31} Nunu Janna LeeSin } - that have some sort of buff in their kit without abnormally low base stats.

TotalJerkJun 6, 20152 votes

If you make melee champions slow, that just means that they'll only be able to get 1 or 2 AAs off before they are getting kited again.

Only Play DariusJun 7, 20154 votes

{quoted}

if a champion has a way of easily sustaining themselves up or getting more HP, they have shit HP and HP regen for it

Riven Katarina

kaykalosJun 7, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AX53zTTA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-06T05:10:24.055+0000)

Why wouldn't they? Think about it. If the goal was to make a champion mobile, why wouldn't you give them a decent move speed? If the mobile champion has two dashes as part of their kit, why neutralize their benefit by giving the champion an immobile move speed? Even if we don't like the mobility issue, the reasoning makes sense.

Then why champions supposed to be squishy have better basic armor !

Sona PingJun 8, 20151 votes

Because they are squishey! 10 armor or less difference at level 18 makes no visible difference to damage received, even more so when they lack defensive abilities. Run the math yourself, or even just play the game; nobody says to themselves "Wow that Nami is so tanky!" when the Volibear is running around with bonus armor more than 80 times the difference between their base stats from only two items.

kaykalosJun 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AX53zTTA,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2015-06-08T05:34:32.682+0000)

Because they are squishey! 10 armor or less difference at level 18 makes no visible difference to damage received, even more so when they lack defensive abilities. Run the math yourself, or even just play the game; nobody says to themselves "Wow that Nami is so tanky!" when the Volibear is running around with bonus armor more than 80 times the difference between their base stats from only two items.

Then there is no difference if u have 10 (10/400) more ms than the mobile-one champion

Sona PingJun 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Then there is no difference if u have 10 (10/400) more ms than the mobile-one champion

Well, then that means those other champions don't actually have an immobile movement speed and LionelLeon's original complaint is not warranted.

lDontLiftIcarryJun 6, 201510 votes

a melee champion with high base ms and gap closers makes sense. A range doesn't. Thats the issue. Don't get confused.

Melee's have to work harder than ranged because they have 500+ range gap to be danger zoned in on top of having to close the gap.

LankPantsJun 7, 20154 votes

I feel like Zyra is the single worst example of a low mobility slow champ. 325 MS on a champ with no dashes or speed-boosts to begin with and fairly sizeable cast times.

P0IS0N IVYJun 7, 20151 votes

item 3070 Anivia

And the sad part is that bird has always been this way.

Zyra's MS was nerfed to the way it is presently.

Sakura MirageJun 6, 20153 votes

Shen has 335 with a dash

flibitydooJun 6, 20153 votes

Most immobile champions have other parts of their kits to help them survive.

Mages like Lux and Vel'koz have good cc and range.

Mages like Swain and Vladimir have sustain/tankiness.

Mages like Syndra or Veigar deal insane amounts of damage and have a "push r to delete X champion button"

TotalJerkJun 6, 20153 votes

Generally movement speed is determined by what role the champion has as well as sticking power. Typically mages and marksmen have the lowest movement speeds, while melee champions are the fastest. There are some exceptions, like Heimerdinger being 345 for some unfathomable reason and Nautilus being 325 for thematic reasons and because his sticking power and survivability means there's no reason to allow him to move that fast.

Lajinn5Jun 6, 20153 votes

High LeeSin base LeeSin movement LeeSin speed LeeSin while LeeSin having LeeSin tons LeeSin of LeeSin mobility? LeeSin That LeeSin would LeeSin be LeeSin crazy!

Edit: Not a complaint about Lee, just kind of saying that the OP isn't exactly lying

supes the lostJun 7, 20153 votes

Lee Sin has a higher base movement speed then Hecarim.

killd0zerJun 7, 20151 votes

Lee sin sins have more to do with his Q being an assassination ability, and his ult being more useful as a nuke than anything else

cFlameJun 6, 20152 votes

"Well you see here at Riot, we own the game so we do what we want and treat you all who don't like mobility+++++ like a Taylor Swift hater. xoxo Pop music 4 lyfe." They say if you can imagine a person within reason, there is a very high chance they exist. Such a person I made an example above probably exists.

WutsKrakenJun 7, 20152 votes

Nautilus "IMA GET YOU"

Zed walks away with superior movespeed "Cya"

Nautilus pant pant...ok fine! Hook attempt

Zed W Nope

Later...

Nautilus "Ok, I got my item 3117 , NOW IMA GETCHA"

Zed Q Nope

Nautilus Hook attempt

Zed item 3111 sidestep Nope

Nautilus EAT THIS ult

Zed W over wall so even when Depth Charge hits nobody can follow up

item 3070 Nautilus

(PS, not implying Nautilus is weak or Zed is ridiculously strong. Just providing an example of someone with a dash already having the ability to outrun dashless champs that have low as heck movespeed)

LeetriJun 7, 20151 votes

And then Naut takes all the objectives because Zed just runs away. If you're on the offence, the only reason you kill other champions is to prevent them from defending. But if all they do is run away you don't have to kill or chase them, they're forced to come to you unless they want to lose. Also, Naut is not the best example of a dashless champion considering he has a conditional dash.

Kariu RenaJun 7, 20151 votes

I agree we should give a cc machine 350base ms because he cant dash over the wall #shitterslogic

Starcall CaseyJun 6, 20151 votes

Literally everybody needs to upvote this thread, im really sick of ekko, zed, akali, ETC all having move speeds of 345+ and after 1 item and boots they go upto 450

Slamurai JackJun 6, 20151 votes

Because peel and escapes exist. If they didn't, yes, high base MS with gap closers would be dumb. But champions don't need to just close the gap, they need to be able to stay in range after they get there as well. A melee champion that is slower than their ranged target is basically at their mercy and it's why Gnar, Teemo, and Lulu top are all stupid.

Silents429Jun 6, 20151 votes

It doesn't work that way as pointed out.

Off topic ish, but Nautilus needs to stop being the slowest damn champion in the game.

LissamaJun 6, 20151 votes

Fizz Hi

PiVoRxJun 6, 20151 votes

Nobody cares about movement speed.

AsdeftJun 7, 20151 votes

I think it has to be this way so that ranged champions dont just dominate.

DrNovaJun 7, 20151 votes

Mobile champs are supposed to be mobile, immobile ones have that as a weaness.

Not commentating on what champs are op or any of that dumb shit. Just saying for one champ its a strength, for another a weakness.

Hinagiku33Jun 7, 20151 votes

It's actually an example of good design.

Immobile champs are...get this...supposed to be immobile. They aren't supposed to be good at dodging skillshots or chasing/escaping. Maybe this is because they are lumbering CC machine tanks or because they are AD Carries/Mages and everything that walks up to them is supposed to die.

Mobile champs are meant to be mobile. These are the champs that need to be able to dodge skillshots and chase down targets. This is usually because they are melee, which means they have to run up and dodge whatever they can dodge to get in range to use their gap-closers (which often have 700 range or less while skillshots tend to have longer ranges provided you have vision) and maybe even need to save their dash if possible to chase when their targets dashes/flashes away.

Simply put: immobile champs can have higher base MS when they feel like giving up high base damage, CC, and point-n-click skills

Adrian UmbraJun 7, 20151 votes

You do have a point here, but there's also something to be said about the champions who have multiple tools to escape the lower mobility champions ALSO being able to outrun them. It's like saying you're never supposed to be able to catch Kalista just because she's supposed to be mobile. Mobility is also supposed to have downtimes when it's on cooldown and this decreases that weakness. Why should LeeSin even bother to use his W to escape when he can just walk away and hold it in reserve?

On another note, XinZhao has high base damage, CC, and point and click. He has 345 base MS, third highest bracket in the game. Example problem much?

LionelLeonJun 9, 20152 votes

how about ekko? Mobile and more CC than a midlane utility carry. Kalista shes mobile has a slow and a knockup requiring an oathsworn. Riven is Mobile with four dashes, knock up and a stun. idk about lux, she has high damage but low mobility and soft cc, shes kinda even and the most balanced champ in the game imo.