i can't wait for posts like "nerf X rune.."

Teemo Did 911·Nov 6, 2017·21 votes·1,730 views

those posts will be all over the place , even on your bathroom walls

37 Comments

Critmaster GarenNov 6, 20179 votes

i have a feeling the following runes are going to get removed, or changed.

iron skin/mirror shell suck dick. the trigger condition for the bonus resistances is ridiculous and they cant hold up to conditioning. knowing riot, they will probably pull something stupid and nerf conditioning before they make the other 2 runes usefull.
dark harvest promotes unhealthy gameplay patterns. it makes you want to single out the weakest enemy on their team and just kill him over and over for free stacks.
grasp of the undyings stack mechanic is too hit or miss. you can either stack a lot of health when youre in the right matchup, or none at all when youre facing the wrong opponent. ironically the matches where you need the extra health is usually when you cant stack it, because you cant trade with your opponent.
lethal tempo will have the same issue as rework kog maws ability to break attack speed cap. only that the cancer spreads to every champion that scales with attack speed. it will be absolutely bonkers on certain champions and has to be tuned down or changed. theyll probably fiddle around with it until they realize it wont work the way they expected.

SzGamer227Nov 6, 20176 votes

Been testing on the PBE, so here's a response from my experience:

Flat resistance bonus definitely feels underwhelming as a choice into a bad lane. The resistances are worth 90-100 gold (up to 150 gold when healing) which is good compared to your starting item budget, but the power is invisible, which makes it feel like a poor choice over the late-game power of Conditioning.
You get more Dark Harvest stacks by farming than you do by camping one champion over and over, and you also get more gold/xp. To really snowball hard off of Dark Harvest you have to pick up lots of souls from team fights. One thing that isn't explicitly clear in its description is that you can collect allies' souls as well, so its bonuses aren't as much about snowballing out of control, but rather being one of the last remaining people alive after a big fight.
I main Darius, a lane bully who can reliably land auto attacks in most lanes, and I've never felt like Grasp was a good keystone to take lol
Overstacking attack speed with Lethal Tempo is still an inefficient way to build, since it doesn't have permanent uptime. While the bonus is active, you get the full bonuses of your extra attack speed and the additional on-hit power, but once it falls off you're left with a gold inefficient build that has lots of attack speed that you're not using instead of damage that you would otherwise have. Optimal build for Lethal Tempo is your standard 2.5 attack speed build, so that the only overcapped attack speed bonus is the rune itself, which is paired with the time frame that you get to overcap your attack speed.

Personally I think the most toxic rune on the PBE right now is Triumph. A 15% missing health heal on a target that you just went all-in to kill in a fight can feel really unfair, and having that same chunk of health healed on you when you are low and you just want to go in more feels way too good for a basic rune, and this doesn't even cover the bonus gold on kills that it gives you as well. I've never considered either of its counterparts when I've used the Precision tree.

Critmaster GarenNov 6, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Personally I think the most toxic rune on the PBE right now is Triumph. A 15% missing health heal on a target that you just went all-in to kill in a fight can feel really unfair, and having that same chunk of health healed on you when you are low and you just want to go in more feels way too good for a basic rune, and this doesn't even cover the bonus gold on kills that it gives you as well. I've never considered either of its counterparts when I've used the Precision tree.

champion kills still grant 8 dark harvest stacks, right? so there isnt really any downside to just constantly roaming on the same enemy between cannon waves.

part of triumphs dominance is because the other runes in that row arent very interesting. overheal doesnt really work for a lot of champions whod want it.

for example the nature of darius % missing health heal makes it so that he cant overheal off his q unless he has spirit visage. it also drops off rather quickly out of combat.

you get more health out of triumph than you can ever get in shielding out of overheal. id have loved to pick the rune on garen, if it just gave him a shield off his passive, but it doesnt work.

free spells for a couple seconds upon level up is just... why? its way too situational. youre not going to get into the position to really capitalize on that most of the time. what are the chances, that youre in a fight with your opponent, about to level up and running out of mana to really need this at the same time?

SzGamer227Nov 6, 20171 votes

Preseason site says Dark Harvest gives 4 stacks from cannon minions (8 per cannon minion wave) and 6 from champions.

I really want to say that Overheal should proc off of health regen and never decay to be competitive with Triumph, but then adc's would abuse it yet another way to avoid blowing up to burst mages and assassins.

If it was an overshield that proc'd exclusively from health regen then it would be an excellent rune for tanks and juggernauts who build Spirit Visage and/or Warmog's. Maybe it could carry a component that temporarily increases your health regen when healed/shielded by an ally so that it doesn't completely alienate adc's.

Honestly don't know what to do with Presence of Mind. Among other things, it just doesn't seem to belong in a slot occupied by runes that focus on durability and healing.

Glory ln DeathNov 6, 20172 votes

Presence of Mind activates on level-up and takedowns. On certain champions, it's actually an insane rune. Kassadin, for instance, can get 2 or 3 free, high damage Riftwalks after every kill. As long as Taric has something to hit, he can get off 5 2-charge heals for free. Seraph's Embrace and Manamune don't use mana for their active/passive (Lethal Tempo Ezreal, anyone?). Etc.

Obviously, it isn't great for everyone, but it's definitely a good rune.

RocketRelmNov 7, 20171 votes

There's a huge difference between adcs that take precision primary and other types of champs that are dipping precision for secondary stuff.

I've actually been a little worried about the hyper snowball potential that the rift walk gives Kassadin, late game that can make you incredibly feast-or-famine. Having played blood moon, I know exactly how toxic mid-to-late game Kassawin gets when you get to recklessly full charge ult multiple times in a fight.

MimrNov 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Personally I think the most toxic rune on the PBE right now is Triumph. A 15% missing health heal on a target that you just went all-in to kill in a fight can feel really unfair, and having that same chunk of health healed on you when you are low and you just want to go in more feels way too good for a basic rune, and this doesn't even cover the bonus gold on kills that it gives you as well. I've never considered either of its counterparts when I've used the Precision tree.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the core principle of Triumph, but 15% just sounds really overtuned (although I have not been able to play with the new runes yet).

Critmaster GarenNov 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I don't think there's anything wrong with the core principle of Triumph, but 15% just sounds really overtuned (although I have not been able to play with the new runes yet).

its 15% missing health. which means its a lot or not much dependent on how close the fight was.

SzGamer227Nov 7, 20171 votes

It's really frustrating when you go in to kill an enemy with 100 hp left and they get a 15% missing health heal though, and it happens to me all the time...

Critmaster GarenNov 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's really frustrating when you go in to kill an enemy with 100 hp left and they get a 15% missing health heal though, and it happens to me all the time...

by the way, i forgot to mention on topic of lethal tempo.

the keystone itself grants an 80% attack speed buff during the duration youre able to overcap on attack speed.

that means you dont need to overcap off your itemization. you can build a couple attack speed items to hit the 2.5 cap at 0 item 3124 stacks. this means you should be able to break 3.0 attack speed without wasting gold efficiency, since by the time you get your 6 stacks on rageblade, the keystone should trigger.

its probably going to make certain champions like Kalista Vayne Twitch KogMaw maybe even MasterYi dumb as shit.

one more reason item 3075 needs a windowed active that just beefs up its passive for a couple seconds. so we have a way to deal with these ridiculous power spikes and can force these carries at least once per fight to switch target for a couple seconds or take large amounts of retaliation damage.

SzGamer227Nov 7, 20171 votes

Lethal Tempo is situationally very strong, but it won't be hard to balance it against the more reliable damage bonus from Press the Attack. Between the two, Press the Attack is harder to play against because it doesn't have a cooldown.

Tuning Thornmail to be effective against Lethal Tempo would shift players away form the risk/reward aspect of Lethal Temp (which requires you to constantly stay in aa range to get its full bonus) and towards the less interesting (and less interactive) of the two keystones.

Not saying that Press the Attack is bad for the game or unhealthy, but the game would be more interesting if we let both be viable instead of adding specific counters to them.

AwesomeGuyDjNov 6, 20171 votes

Cant comment on lethal tempo much since 1. I havent played it alot. 2. I dont play much adc. I can and will say this though. Ad kennen. Lethal tempo. Very fun.

Optimistic MetaNov 7, 20171 votes

Try Gnar

You're really squishy but if you can kite, and have a good matchup It's a good time

YoungFarmerNov 6, 20177 votes

This entire video makes them look super op just because he builds sub optimal builds or does things you would never be able to do in a normal game, for example auto-attacking for so long that you can 1 shot elder.

MimrNov 6, 20175 votes

Well, I do hope they remove/ bugfix (whatever it is) the mechanic that allows you stack multiple Lethal Tempo's on top of each other. 20.00 AS Vaynes and Jinxes are funny for one-time YouTube vids but if that makes it into live I will reach through the screen with my hand and strangle whatever champion is abusing it myself.

Also kinda fear for the kind iof gameplay Dark Harvest might promote. It shows an awful lot of similarity with Feral Flare/ Devourer (afk farm until stacks only fall off after 5 min) and we all know how good that was for the game.

Iota ThetaNov 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well, I do hope they remove/ bugfix (whatever it is) the mechanic that allows you stack multiple Lethal Tempo's on top of each other. 20.00 AS Vaynes and Jinxes are funny for one-time YouTube vids but if that makes it into live I will reach through the screen with my hand and strangle whatever champion is abusing it myself.

I don’t think it’s possible to stack multiple Lethal Tempo’s. At most it’s a 6 second duration, and the CD is 10 seconds. Even if the CD starts when it first procs, there will be 4 seconds of downtime on it.

Glory ln DeathNov 6, 20171 votes

That got taken care of a month ago.

TwinkieProNov 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well, I do hope they remove/ bugfix (whatever it is) the mechanic that allows you stack multiple Lethal Tempo's on top of each other. 20.00 AS Vaynes and Jinxes are funny for one-time YouTube vids but if that makes it into live I will reach through the screen with my hand and strangle whatever champion is abusing it myself.

Also kinda fear for the kind iof gameplay Dark Harvest might promote. It shows an awful lot of similarity with Feral Flare/ Devourer (afk farm until stacks only fall off after 5 min) and we all know how good that was for the game.

Similar, yes, but it promotes the gameplay more for assassins than on hit duelist as it only applies to the first auto until another soul is claimed.

DorkunedAurasNov 7, 20171 votes

And the stacks flow incredibly slowly if you don't get kills.

TwinkieProNov 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And the stacks flow incredibly slowly if you don't get kills.

You'll likely see champs like khazix and rengar take it in the jungle. Zed mid lane may as well if he doesn't take the new TLD.

DorkunedAurasNov 7, 20171 votes

I've been on the PBE and messing with it. I've found that, in lane, you 100% have to get kills to make it worth it. In the Jungle, less so, but it'll oftentimes still take too long to hit the core breakpoint of 150 stacks if you're not being proactive. Especially since the assassin junglers are poorly suited for hard farming.

MuzétNov 6, 20174 votes

Lethal Weapon already received a nerf. Press the attack doesn't give infinite AD stacks anymore Predator isn't even OP. Grasp take years to stack health. (5 HP every 4s in combat on an auto) Dark Harvest except if you're jungling won't be that good.

What now?

MetleonNov 6, 20173 votes

People have been saying most of the runes are broken for weeks.

KyunseiNov 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

People have been saying most of the runes are broken for weeks.

Most of the rune aren't broken. It's a new system, it's meant to "break" what we're currently used to have to "build" something new.

Infinite scaling on Grasp will have to have a maximum bonus health though.

GGLineaRNov 6, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Most of the rune aren't broken. It's a new system, it's meant to "break" what we're currently used to have to "build" something new.

Infinite scaling on Grasp will have to have a maximum bonus health though.

It's only 2 health.

Assuming the match lasts 35 minutes, and you trigger Grasp by hitting an enemy champion while in combat for four seconds EVERY four seconds, (which isn't even possible, because of death timers, time it takes to get back to lane, pre minion spawning time, etc), You will get 1050 hp

What's more likely, is that you'll trigger it every now and then, gaining somewhere from 100 - 300 hp by the end of the game.

A cap on that won't do anything lol.

Glory ln DeathNov 6, 20171 votes

It's 5 health per stack. It's only 2 health for ranged champions.

GGLineaRNov 6, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A3ZcAzE2,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-06T20:02:39.360+0000)

It's 5 health per stack. It's only 2 health for ranged champions.

My apologies, but that still doesn't change my stance on this.

Melee champs need to work even harder to stack that, and unless you're Sion or Cho'Gath, the health stacking isn't worth anything.

If 5 is too much, lower it to 4. But a cap on Grasp will not do anything.

Please understand, I'm not saying this because I think grasp will be weak without it, I'm saying the cap will literally do nothing because of how the stacking mechanic works.

Glory ln DeathNov 7, 20171 votes

I never said anything about a cap. I was just correcting you.

Critmaster GarenNov 6, 20177 votes

{quoted}

Infinite scaling on Grasp will have to have a maximum bonus health though.

every game i played so far, at the very most i got to stack 250, maybe a little more health when the game went super lategame.

most of the time the stack mechanic actually sucks and you dont get more than 50 health out of it yb the time games end.

the issue i see with grasp is actually that the stack mechanic is shit most of the time, and they should just make it a generic 4% max health increase instead.

i rather take ~160 bonus health at 35 minutes on a 4k health build guaranteed, than maybe 250 health when the stars align perferctly, and almost no bonus health in the worst case scenario.

DarkRitualNov 6, 20171 votes

They're really not though, Been playing a lot on PBE and while some are completely underwhelming, nothing feels actually BROKEN.

GigglesONov 6, 20172 votes

Where is my infinite scaling armor and MR every time I take damage?

GesterrNov 6, 20172 votes

Ok I'll start: Dark Harvest is going to be OP as fk and it doesn't seem very balancable, it will always be either OP or worthless depending on number tuning. Kha and Zed will be insane again.