Interesting improvement to Thornmail?
Small, but drastic. What about the possibility of Thornmail applying grievous wounds reducing the healing of anyone who attacks the target. Thoughts?
109 Comments
I'm for this. Now we get a chance to take down WW, Nasus, or Yi.
Although it will hurt people like Zac more simply because of collateral.
I agree, let tanks be tanks again. % Crap gotta stop, it's a cop out and lazy as hell design. Like level scaled monsters in an RPG.
I've been asking this for ages.
Don't see any reason to not add this, other than ADC mains crying to riot again.
this would make thornmail actually usefull. Lifesteal + last whisper = tanks useless. Thornmail isnt very good if they are fed so I approve of this
I'd settle for an active.
No. Because as it is there are 3.5 counters to it. You can either out-lifesteal/MR it (this is the .5), ignore them, or have true damage. This removes a counter to it.
Agreed the damage that ticks back to the attack should inflict grevious. Also maybe a buff to the amount sent back? 25% instead of 20%
I'd say it should be a new variant of Grievous wounds that only affects lifesteal and built-in on-hit healing effects, such as Irelia's W or Warwick's passive. That would keep it in the niche of countering auto-attackers, without damaging other champions such as Zac, like FantasySniper said.
personally I think it should reflect 30% of damage from ad spells back to the attacker love to watch cait try to ult a squishy while she's 100 hp and watch a garen with thornmail walk in front of the shot "oh god why"
Why not give Thornmail an active? Say... "Unique Active: For X seconds, all attacks made that include you as a target cannot benefit from lifesteal or on-hit healing effects."
You'd need to balance it pretty carefully, because it has the potential to seriously throw teamfights, but it would make tanks a credible threat to ADCs again without making tanks as mobile as they are.
you know its bad when malphite is actually a stronger champ when built full ap. knock up then die after 2 seconds or kill adc and support with 1 combo. hmmm idk
I actually posted the same idea a while back (for some reason people like you better I guess) http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/EOUAdPTt-thornmail-idea
Anyways, I agree. Thornmail's damage can be entirely blocked by buying lifesteal which makes the item slot wasted most of the time since majority of champions who rely on basic attacks build lifesteal.
yeah, definitely, since most of the time, people attacking those with thornmail have a lastwhisper and some sort of lifesteal to outheal the damage from thornmail
The only problem is that 
currently can be a really effective buy against an adc. So long they don't have lifesteal. It's not the first time an adc kills himself by building full glass cannon. A nerf on thornmail will make room for less 
, 
& 
only works if they have less than 40% of their Health at the time.
I think something like that would work best as an Active rather than a Passive, since a Passive version of it would be too strong unless there was a set duration in which the attacker can not be inflicted by it again for x seconds. Currently Thornmail doesn't exactly do what it's supposed to do, counter ADCs, so a tweak like this could make the item do what it's supposed to do.
..Though, Riot wouldn't like something like that as they cherish ADCs as a God class pretty much and will not have anything in the game that can successfully counter them without fail. It's why Randuin's got nerfed.
make it do % current health magic damage on being hit. lol
I think grievous wounds would be too drastic on a tank. Maybe if it can be made into an active instead that would be nice.
I don't want to imagine a tank with a nomicon-like item. o_o that would be scary and even scarier on bruisers.
Thornmail is already pretty good for reducing on hit healing, you need 30% lifesteal on top of true damage already in order to negate it, and even then you end up with a wasted stat, I think another option could be to add executioners calling back into the game but have it build into a defensive item that applies grevious wounds when hit or when attacked with spells and also gave health and MR, it could also build out of giants belt.
Also adding Atma's back in but changing it so that instead of crit chance it added health per minute up to a cap similar to ROA.
Sword of the divine could also make a comeback but with the addition of 15% crit chance passively and resetting on assists as well as kills.
Might as well continue with a few other older items, innervating locket but with a 15 second cool down on the effect, leviathan but stacking on minion/large monster kills that are lost on death, Eleisa's Miracle but building out of mana manipulator instead of philo stone and keeping the mana warp passive.
Why would you buff ? It really is kinda strong right now, especially if the enemy carry doesn't have a .
Seriously, it may not be 100% cost effective in terms of armor alone, but it negates lifesteal by itself, and makes carries kill themselves if you get more armor.
Let's just assume you have 300 armor and enemy ADC has 400 AD. You have that thornmail effect, he gets %crit damage from IE and %arpen from LW. Coupled with %pen masteries, enemy ADC is at 39% armor penetration, which leaves you roughly at 183 armor. That's roughly 65% damage reduction.
If he crits, he has 1000 AD in calculations. That's 300 magic damage before MR is applied, and considering carries usually have 30-43 MR (assuming 43 here) he is dealt around 210 damage.
You receive 350 (not including any DR effects/masteries here) damage and even if your enemy has 20% lifesteal, that's about 70 hp given back. Net health loss: 140. If you're not just standing there, enemies not using multiple on-hit effects will be ruined by Thornmail.