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Steel Shoulderguards and Relic Shield granting less gold than other support items.

Taskmaker2·1/8/2020, 1:24:41 AM·26 votes·12,894 views
Steel Shoulderguards

So I have noticed this in most of my support games but I wanted to rant a little about it on the forums and hopefully get this looked at. Basically because the "Receive diminishing gold from excessive minion kills" part of these items conflicts with what you actually have to do with the items which is "Execute Minions". You get the diminishing returns if you kill more than 20 cs in 5 minutes right? Well you get 1 charge every 45 seconds so about 6 and 2/3rds minion kills from the item being used how it is supposed to be used... that only leaves less than a 14 minion cushion, meaning if you catch the wave because your adc backed or, heaven forbid, died, you are now getting anywhere from 80% to 50% less gold even when you are using the execute function of the item the way it was intended to be used. (which makes me wonder if the reduced gold affects the gold your fellow laner is getting as well from your executing that siege minion for only 35 gold.)

Now it makes sense with the other gold items where you get the gold procs from harrass and generally never kill minions, and you rarely hit that 20 cs per 5 minute limit, but with these two items you literally have to kill minions to get your procs and I have gone over that limit basically every game that I use this item.

My suggestion to fix this would simply to not count those executes toward the 20 minion limit, thus putting it in line with the other support items.

Now I know that they use this limiter to reduce funneling of gold and abusing the item but this executing minions counting toward the limiter is hurting people who are using it for its intended purpose... Any thoughts are welcome.

14 Comments

iiGazeii1/8/2020, 1:48:52 AM14 votes

Seems extremely reasonable. It should have worked that way from the start.

Hazardus ducees1/8/2020, 6:00:10 AM3 votes

The simple fix to both of these problems is to activate the limiter once the support item is completed and or link it up with an ally like an active in order to proc it correctly.

Zullar1/8/2020, 3:24:17 AM2 votes

^ makes sense to me.

The loss of gold on excessive minion kills needs is much better than before but could use some slight tweaks. Being punished for grabbing minions (when ADC dies) or later in the game after laning phase just feels bad. The Tier3 gold penalty was removed on the PBE but Riot didn't push it to live with 10.1 (my guess is they were afraid of double support bot lane becoming meta... which I think it would have).

I think a better way to code the support items -You have a buffer of up to 400 creep gold where you gain gold at the full gold when last-hitting creeps (this is similar to the 20 creeps/5min which is about 400g/5min) -80 gold per minute is added to your creep gold buffer... possibly capped at ~400 (doing calculations in terms of gold instead of CS avoids having the player worry about cannon vs melee vs ranged and keep a mental tally of how many CS they've picked up and if they should not last-hit caster minions if their ADC has died etc. It's mentally taxing and doesn't add anything to the game other than annoyance.) -When your 400g creep gold buffer is reduced to 0 (by killing ~20 minions in a short time) all additional creep gold is reduced by 75% (this avoids the issue where killing 25 creeps/5min gives less money than 19/5min because with this system only the last 6 creeps are reduced in gold... not all 25 which can occur with the current support item if you keep your penalty rolling. This primary happens late game when pushing lanes after laning phase ends). -When a nearby ally last-hits a minion 20% of the minions gold value is added to your buffer. So if your ADC died and you had to pick up two waves when he returns to lane and kills creep it helps clear your penalty buffer by killing minions. To avoid double support items you add the caveot that your buffer is only increased if your ally does not also have a support item. -At max of Tier3 you no longer have a creep gold penalty. This avoids the annoyance of late game wave clearing with support and getting a gold penalty. -Numbers could be adjusted to avoid double support items being meta. For instance only a passive 20g/min added to buffer with a 40% of gold added from allies (as long as they also don't have a support item) would make it very punishing to take double support items (which presumably is what Riot is worried about based on the fact they did not implement the Tier3 gold penalty removal support item changes from PBE to 10.1)

Also I think Senna should be changed. She shouldn't be punished for grabbing minions. I think she should get like 50% reduced gold per minion instead of reduced soul chance. With Senna are better off NOT killing caster minions... the 20% chance for soul is > than 14 gold + 1% chance of soul. Makes it hard to push waves late game when you don't want to get the last hit. It's annoying.

in a hood near u1/9/2020, 4:37:44 PM2 votes

Am I understanding you correctly that in order to activate the farming penalty you have to CS an extra 14 minions on top of the 6 minions you use your execute on, within 5 minutes?

So you'll have to take over two waves after you've already used your executes? I'm not sure I understood you correctly because if it's the way you've described, then I see no problem with it.

IRight ArmI1/8/2020, 6:39:06 AM1 votes

You have to realize that the execute has a cooldown that would not let the item interfere with excessive minion kills.

RyzeRework1/8/2020, 4:31:39 PM1 votes

This is some stupid logic. The reason it's like that is because one you have to hit a spell and the other you need to kill a minion. It's much easier to throw out spells. The support items themselves give the same amount of gold and the average support has 40ish cs over a 30 min game

taleofsonata1/9/2020, 1:56:46 PM1 votes

They are trying too hard to nerf Taric boosting strats.