yauso windwall

keanureevespt2·Jul 30, 2016·2 votes·632 views

why cant his windwall block kalye attack. isnt he considered range since he can build a hurrican? if he is considered range then yauso windwall needs to be fixed

13 Comments

Inquisitor KaneJul 30, 20163 votes

Kayle is a SHE.
HER auto attacks doesn't produce any bullets so maybe that is why Windwall doesn't work. There is nothing to catch. And that AoE splash dmg on the ground that you see, well AoE spells already goes through the Windwall so I guess that's OK.

At least this is my educated guess why it works like that.

Zero Skill TankJul 30, 20163 votes

Yasuo windwall doesn't block ranged attacks.

Yasuo windwall blocks projectiles. Kayle enhanced attacks are not projectiles. Windwall won't block i.e. pillar of flame for the same reason.

JustMonika13Jul 30, 20162 votes

Kayle's empowered auto attacks aren't projectiles. They're an induced AoE effect, which Yasuo can't wall off.

keanureevespt2Jul 30, 20162 votes

then why does a hurrican work on him if he is not ranged?

JustMonika13Jul 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

then why does a hurrican work on him if he is not ranged?

It works because when Kayle activates her empowered Auto attacks, the system switches her classification to ranged (in order to avoid her abusing something like Rage passives). Its the same with with the shapeshifters Jayce Nidalee Gnar . When they're in their melee form they're melee, and when they're in their ranged form they're ranged.

Anyways ranged =/= projectile. All projectiles are ranged, but not all ranged attacks are projectiles. Kayle's empowered AAs aren't projectiles.

AMYS GRAVEJul 30, 20161 votes

ts the same with with the shapeshifters .

but all three shape shifters you listed have autos that are blocked by windwall...

When they're in their melee form they're melee, and when they're in their ranged form they're ranged.

Tautologies are also true.

Why aren't Kayle's empowered AA projectiles? TF empowered AA are, Bard empowered AA are, Jinx empowered AA are.... We've narrowed down the list of things windwall blocks to projectiles and projectiles are defined by things that are blocked by windwall. (dont ask about braum shield because that is actually quite different.)

JustMonika13Jul 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

but all three shape shifters you listed have autos that are blocked by windwall...

Tautologies are also true.

Why aren't Kayle's empowered AA projectiles? TF empowered AA are, Bard empowered AA are, Jinx empowered AA are.... We've narrowed down the list of things windwall blocks to projectiles and projectiles are defined by things that are blocked by windwall. (dont ask about braum shield because that is actually quite different.)

I know that the AAs of the ones I listed are blocked by Windwall. I was just using them as comparison because original poster asked why Kayle can buy item 3085 despite being by default melee.

Kayle's empowered AA's aren't projectiles because they are instantaneous AoE effects. It's like asking why Windwall doesn't block the lazurs Lux of the game Velkoz . Projectiles are defined in game as non-unit objects that have a travel time (which is why Yasuo can block Tali wall and Braum ult and other crazy stuff). Instantaneous AoE effects don't have these despite being ranged because again they're instantaneous.

AMYS GRAVEJul 30, 20161 votes

now you have to define a unit, what is a unit object?

Also Tali wall and braum ult dont move anywhere, they come straight up from the ground. The movement you are perceiving is the wave velocity which is an illusion of motion not actual motion of the particles themselves. Look closely at each part of taliah's wall, it doesn't move at all. Yasuo windwall blocking Taliah ult makes as much sense as it blocking trundle pillar, yet one is allowed to go off while the other isn't.

Thresh and VelKoz autos are not instantaneous AOE effects, nor is Viktor's empowered auto attack, yet they are not blocked by windwall despite not being unit objects and they have a travel time.

Mikaels crucible is an instantaneous effect yet its use is blocked by windwall.

Fiora's Riposte is an instantaneous AOE effect yet it is blocked by windwall.

I think Kindred's Wolf is a unit and yet he is blocked by windwall.

Swain's Torment doesn't have a travel time yet it is blocked by windwall.

Thresh flay is an instantaneous AOE ground effect yet it is blocked by windwall.

At this point the devs are just cherry picking which abilities yasuo blocks by hand and justifying it through the tautology of projectile.

JustMonika13Jul 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

now you have to define a unit, what is a unit object?

Also Tali wall and braum ult dont move anywhere, they come straight up from the ground. The movement you are perceiving is the wave velocity which is an illusion of motion not actual motion of the particles themselves. Look closely at each part of taliah's wall, it doesn't move at all. Yasuo windwall blocking Taliah ult makes as much sense as it blocking trundle pillar, yet one is allowed to go off while the other isn't.

Thresh and VelKoz autos are not instantaneous AOE effects, nor is Viktor's empowered auto attack, yet they are not blocked by windwall despite not being unit objects and they have a travel time.

Mikaels crucible is an instantaneous effect yet its use is blocked by windwall.

Fiora's Riposte is an instantaneous AOE effect yet it is blocked by windwall.

I think Kindred's Wolf is a unit and yet he is blocked by windwall.

Swain's Torment doesn't have a travel time yet it is blocked by windwall.

Thresh flay is an instantaneous AOE ground effect yet it is blocked by windwall.

At this point the devs are just cherry picking which abilities yasuo blocks by hand and justifying it through the tautology of projectile.

Basically champions, minions, and neutral monsters. Like obviously not blocking dashes (despite technically having a travel time).

Except both Tali ult and Braum ult do have travel times, because they do indeed travel from one point to another to cause effects. Look closely at both of them and they do move. Don't try to apply real world physics and logic to a game, especially a fantasy game. A fantasy game in which so many beings should be crushing others underfoot if not restricted by game mechanics and "balance". If that were so, Yasuo wouldn't be able to block a lot of things that he does. Tali wall is blocked at the point that Yasuo blocks it, but the wall that was already formed remains. I agree that they shouldn't be blocked, Tali ult is a structure while Braum ult should instead be coded as going under the wall much like Nautilus ult is, but it is what it is.

Thresh's and Vel'koz's autos do not utilize projectiles; it is stated in their passives, nor does Viktor's Q empowered auto. They don't have travel times, they're single target instantaneous effects (if not canceled obviously). Again, all projectiles are ranged but not all ranged attacks are projectiles.

I don't know about Mikaels, I don't play much support so I don't know the effect. I've never noticed it, I'll get back to you once I try it out to see the effect.

Fiora's Risposte does have a travel time; look closely at her ability and there is a particle effect starting from the point where she's at to the end of her defined area of return damage/return CC.

With Kindred, in W Wolf is not inhibited by windwall at all, but in the third E auto, "Wolf" isn't a unit at that moment but a projectile that uses wolf's form for aesthetic purposes.

Swain's Torment does have a travel time lol. It is a projectile. Go watch the skill preview video and tell me how that doesn't have a travel time.

Nope, Thresh's flay has a travel time per say (and by that I mean the knock back effect), but of course it's barely noticeable due to the fact that that it is of such a short ranged and seems to affect the ground. There still is a small delay in between the wind-up and the intended effect and damage.

AMYS GRAVEJul 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Basically champions, minions, and neutral monsters. Like obviously not blocking dashes (despite technically having a travel time).

Olaf axe, ori ball, jinx chompers, all dont fit in your definition.

Except both Tali ult and Braum ult do have travel times, because they do indeed travel from one point to another to cause effects. Look closely at both of them and they do move. Don't try to apply real world physics and logic to a game, especially a fantasy game. A fantasy game in which so many beings should be crushing others underfoot if not restricted by game mechanics and "balance". If that were so, Yasuo wouldn't be able to block a lot of things that he does. Tali wall is blocked at the point that Yasuo blocks it, but the wall that was already formed remains. I agree that they shouldn't be blocked, Tali ult is a structure while Braum ult should instead be coded as going under the wall much like Nautilus ult is, but it is what it is.

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/189678/waves-speed-and-particle-speed

Braum ult and Tal ult both have wave speeds not particle speeds. They are not traveling they come up from the ground and therefore should not be projectiles.

Thresh's and Vel'koz's autos do not utilize projectiles; it is stated in their passives, nor does Viktor's Q empowered auto. They don't have travel times, they're single target instantaneous effects (if not canceled obviously). Again, all projectiles are ranged but not all ranged attacks are projectiles.

That's kind of my point, they have ranged autos but get a pass on being projectiles. Why? because the devs say so. Give me a good reason why they shouldn't be projectiles because they do have travel times. Thresh and Vel both have to wind up their auto, and watch the chain/tenticle go from them to the enemy before damage is done.

I don't know about Mikaels, I don't play much support so I don't know the effect. I've never noticed it, I'll get back to you once I try it out to see the effect.

Fiora's Risposte does have a travel time; look closely at her ability and there is a particle effect starting from the point where she's at to the end of her defined area of return damage/return CC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeFQ4oghOEo

The ground targeted AOE goes down instantly.

With Kindred, in W Wolf is not inhibited by windwall at all, but in the third E auto, "Wolf" isn't a unit at that moment but a projectile that uses wolf's form for aesthetic purposes.

So wolf is a unit except when he isn't? Why have him be able to go through windwall for her W but not her E? Is wolf a unit or not?

Swain's Torment does have a travel time lol. It is a projectile. Go watch the skill preview video and tell me how that doesn't have a travel time.

Nope, Thresh's flay has a travel time per say (and by that I mean the knock back effect), but of course it's barely noticeable due to the fact that that it is of such a short ranged and seems to affect the ground. There still is a small delay in between the wind-up and the intended effect and damage.

Thresh's flay does not have a travel time, it is a ground targeted ability with a cast time.

Just because an ability has a cast time doesn't mean it should be a projectile.

JustMonika13Jul 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Olaf axe, ori ball, jinx chompers, all dont fit in your definition.

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/189678/waves-speed-and-particle-speed

Braum ult and Tal ult both have wave speeds not particle speeds. They are not traveling they come up from the ground and therefore should not be projectiles.

That's kind of my point, they have ranged autos but get a pass on being projectiles. Why? because the devs say so. Give me a good reason why they shouldn't be projectiles because they do have travel times. Thresh and Vel both have to wind up their auto, and watch the chain/tenticle go from them to the enemy before damage is done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeFQ4oghOEo

The ground targeted AOE goes down instantly.

So wolf is a unit except when he isn't? Why have him be able to go through windwall for her W but not her E? Is wolf a unit or not?

Thresh's flay does not have a travel time, it is a ground targeted ability with a cast time.

Just because an ability has a cast time doesn't mean it should be a projectile.

Olaf axe, Ori ball, Jinx chompers and quite a few others are completely blocked by windwall, but not destroyed and instead are just dropped when they make contact into windwall.

Again, do not apply real world logic and physics into a game. They're projectiles. I don't agree with it, You don't agree with it, but they are classified as projectiles under the game's laws.

They really don't have travel times, unless I can't notice them at 80 FPS. All three of their autos from what I have seen are instantaneous from the moment they are cast. Wind-up time =/= Travel time. Compare something like Lux's autos or Zigg's autos and then think about the three we're talking about. Which ones instantly affect the target once cast?

I checked Fiora's riposte video before I made the last comment; still projectile under game's laws. The AoE ground is there, but look closely at her when she returns damage and there is a piercing form of energy, blue or gold depending on whether she blocked CC or not, that travels from her to whoever is in her field of effect.

Again, Third E AA is a projectile with the appearance of Wolf for aesthetic purposes; it still doesn't stop it from being a projectile. W Wolf's attacks are considered to be melee I think. I would consider Wolf to be more of a particle effect that comes with Lamb constantly, in and out of skill usage, since with W and E you can have two "Wolves" at once. Wouldn't make much sense if he were a permanent unit and could do that. And he doesn't have a life bar of his own, right? I've said this before and I'll say it again: Lamb is the main character of the two in game. Wolf is just extra razzle-dazzle.

Thresh's flay starts from I assume behind him and then travels in direction pre-specified. Sounds like a projectile.

AMYS GRAVEJul 30, 20161 votes

Again, do not apply real world logic and physics into a game. They're projectiles. I don't agree with it, You don't agree with it, but they are classified as projectiles under the game's laws.

That word has a meaning, as in things that travel, walls dont travel. Real physics or not her wall does not move.

[clip a bunch of stuff on auto attacks]... Which ones instantly affect the target once cast?

none of them, they all have a delay as something visually moves from the champion who cast it to the enemy it was cast on. The tooltips say they aren't projectiles, but that's just riot deciding what is or isn't a projectile arbitrarily.

I checked Fiora's riposte video before I made the last comment; still projectile under game's laws. The AoE ground is there, but look closely at her when she returns damage and there is a piercing form of energy, blue or gold depending on whether she blocked CC or not, that travels from her to whoever is in her field of effect.

That's some pretty bad visuals if that's the case, and needs some cleaning up.

Wolf is just extra razzle-dazzle.

Then i'm back to what defines a unit object? Wolf seems like it should be a unit object to me. Wolf is a companion object that can't be destroyed but interacts with kindreds spells. Sure seems a lot like ori ball or olaf axe.

Thresh's flay starts from I assume behind him and then travels in direction pre-specified. Sounds like a projectile.

If i look at flay it seems to be the same as fiora's riposte. Both have instant AOE ground indicators but have an effect that moves through them which is just bad visuals.

The Last BalladJul 30, 20161 votes

That word has a meaning, as in things that travel, walls dont travel. Real physics or not her wall does not move.

Walls may not travel, seeing as when the wall is blocked it does not all disappear, but the magic that creates the wall does. If you think about it, she must be sending something along the ground to move it up, and that would be a projectile(note: Applying physics to a game that has walls popping out of nowhere at the behest of a tennager is rather silly) Braum is sending a shard of the earth along the ground and that is what is being blocked.

none of them, they all have a delay as something visually moves from the champion who cast it to the enemy it was cast on. The tooltips say they aren't projectiles, but that's just riot deciding what is or isn't a projectile arbitrarily.

Wind wall does not block melee attacks or lasers. Vel'koz and Azir fire lasers as an auto attack(the line just appears between them and their target and applies damage near instantly, the only delay is the waving of the staff/tentacle) aswell as Lux's laser does not interact with it. Thresh is weird, and as far as I can tell his is kind of coded as both ranged and melee, as he can proc(last time I checked) item 3077 and item 3085 , but not both at once. It depends on what range he attacks from, but like Kayle his do not use a projectile, as his weapon is still connected to him, like a sword would be.

Then i'm back to what defines a unit object? Wolf seems like it should be a unit object to me. Wolf is a companion object that can't be destroyed but interacts with kindreds spells. Sure seems a lot like ori ball or olaf axe.

Unlike those other things, there is no repercussions if wolf is blocked as he is still at lambs side. If Orianna's ball was to disappear(note: when trying to create the wind wall, exactly that did happen and it sucked for Orianna) none of her kit would work.And Olaf's axe gives him time off his cooldown for it if he picks it up, so that would also be a demerit.

Think of it this way. Wind wall blocks projectiles forward movement(as if they passed their max range) and their damage, which ends with them disappearing. Olaf's axe throw, Maoki's sapling toss, Jinx's chompers, and Orriana's orb movement all create a unit at the end of their trajectory. So when they hit the wall they drop the units as if they hit their "max range". Wolf returns to lambs side when he "hits" a target. Just because he didn't hit his intended target makes no difference.

If i look at flay it seems to be the same as fiora's riposte. Both have instant AOE ground indicators but have an effect that moves through them which is just bad visuals.

You can actually dodge Fiora's repose by flashing, as well as Thresh's flay. So therefore they must not be instantaneous(such as Morgana's tormented soil) and therefore have to be coded as an projectile to function correctly.

As for Malki's, when you use it the heal is not instantaneous(I wish it was, so many people have died because of the travel time) but rather spawns a swirly little white projectile that gives the healing.

Another instance of something who's code acts the opposite of what you would think is Vel'koz's e, which despite having a projectile that "spawns" the effect, it is a ground targeted, time delayed aoe and the projectile is merely an aesthetic. The projectile is destroyed via windwall, but the effect still goes off because the spell is not coded as a projectile.