Can someone help me with MMR/LP?

crazydodapie··1 votes·1,282 views

How does MMR/LP work?

I keep losing much more lp per loss then i get per win, like 14-15 per win and lose over 20 per loss.

Also, I lost one game at 0lp from silver 4 and was demoted to silver 5?

I checked my op.gg and it says my MMR is SIlver 3 level. The opposite of what is happening is what should be happening right?

Also, does gameplay affect anything regarding lp? Sometimes you really cant carry hard enough, 31/5 s+ but still lose a lot of lp. Why?

I've been trying to grind out ranks, but its getting tedious and seems artificially difficult now.

7 Comments

giannishannibal1 votes

Well Riots MMR and Opgg MMR isnt the same because its calculated differently so if you win 15 lp but lose 20 then sorry according to Riot Maths this account you are playing with is above the division it should be. Losses count for more than wins in terms of MMR. 1 loss is about the equivalent of 3 wins. You have got past the state of fluctuation and you have lost too many games as result If you keep losing too many games you'll see lower returns in LP. If you manage to consistently win more you should return back to gaining more than you lose. So when your wins are 3 times close to 2 times to 3 times higher than your total losses then i think you will start gaining LP back.

crazydodapie1 votes

That's an oppressive and retarded system though. If it is how you say it is, its designed to shovel everyone with winrates under 75% down the drain. wtf

Unker1391 votes

Op.gg is a rough guess at best for MMR. I track about 300 players for trends and have seen someone's MMR change 100 points in 5 days without playing a game.

That being said, I believe your LP changes based on your real MMR compared to the either the average or defined MMR for your rank. If you are gaining less for wins than you are losing, it means your MMR is low for your rank.

I was just promoted to bronze 4 by winning 6 straight and going up from 0 LP. During the run I was getting 21-22 LP per win. My first game in bronze 4, I won. You would expect a big gain being on a 7 game win streak, but i gained only 13.

Why? Because my MMR even with the win streak was high for bronze 5 ( you can't drop lower so the average is probably pretty low) but is still not good for a bronze 4.

giannishannibal1 votes

Also there is another parameter the teams MMR.If you are in a team with higer MMR -according to Riot maths- then you are expected to win. If you do then you gain even less than your usual maybe 12-13 instead of 14-15. If you dont win you lose even more LP like 23-34 instead of 21-22. Now the opposite works too. IF you are in a team with Lower MMR and win you get more LP like 17-18 and if you lose you may lose the less LP. If both teams MMR is really close then you gain lose the normal amount.

usul12021 votes

So first, op.gg's mmr guesser has been terrible this season, no idea what's up with it.

Now then, the actual process. Mmr/lp are part of what's known as an elo system, which ranks players. Originally used for chess, it spread out a lot because of a few benefits I'll cover once I hit the basics. Essentially, the system puts your rank as 2 numbers, 1 public (lp) and one private (mmr). The private one decides who you're matched with (hence, match making rating), while the public one determines your rankings and such. Your mmr is decided by your wins/losses, and your lp gains/losses are decided by the difference between your lp and mmr.

(note: all mmr numbers here are made up, solely for this example) So, for example let's say you're silver 3 50 lp, which matches with 1300 mmr. If you're at exactly 1500 mmr, you'd gain and lose the exact same amount of lp for wins and losses, and you'd be playing with people who have a silver 3 mmr. Now we'll shift it. You're still silver 3 50 lp, but you're on a loss streak and you're at 1000 mmr (silver 5). You're playing against silver 5 difficulty people even thoigh you're silver 3, so a win will give you less lp and a loss will make you lose more. This is designed to pull you down to silver 5 if you hold a perfect 50/50 win rate at thus mmr. Finally, you're back winning again. You re-hit silver 3, 50 lp but this time your mmr is 1600. Now you're playing against silver 1 level opponents, so your wins will give you more lp, and your losses are more forgiving and you lose less. While you were silver 3 in all these scenarios, your gains, losses, and even match quality vary massively.

So why do it? Ultimately, it's to allow for more dynamic changes in skill. Mmr is a quick changing stat. A quick winstreak can shoot you up quite quick. This rewards players who are playing well, learned a new skill, finally clicked with an old one, or are on a new account/decayed old one and are climbing fast. They quickly reach their desired skill level game wise, and just need to play some more to get their lp up. Similarly, someone who skated through promos (or was carried) will drop down fast in matchmaking when they stop getting lucky/carried. However, you don't want your rankings to be 100% decided by streaks, so you add in the lp system. Lp is slower. You can only gain like, 28ish lp for a win, no matter how high your mmr is. This means that if you are a super streaky player you won't magically rise from s5 to g5 overnight. If you're a tilter, you won't fall like that either. However, if you keep winning over a long period (higher mmr for a lot of wins) you'll still climb fast and can even skip divisions.

Eating while I post this, so it might not be the most cohesive worded thing. Please let me know if I'm making no sense.

Tl,dr: mmr decides who you're matched against, lp is just rank. High mmr = climb fast, low mmr = fall fast. Using the dual system allows for quick climbing and falling to true elo, and keeps streakiness from deciding your whole rank.

crazydodapie1 votes

My problem is it it isn't working out like that.

I've been climbing even with whatever sabatoge the system is screwing me with. I'm winning more then I'm losing. I was winning 9/10 games for a bit, and whatever system is going on decides I'm still garbage. LP gain never went higher despite all the Ss. You are either wrong or the system is bugged.

usul12021 votes

Took a quick look at your op.gg, things look like they're working properly. You're about 50/50 win rate for the past day, then 2-3 days ago you had a big win streak. Normally this would put your mmr way up but..... 5 days ago you had an even larger lose streak. That takes time to overcome. Don't sweat it too much, can't let past losses tilt you more. Keep working on repeating those win streaks, and since you do seem pretty streaky I'd recommend learning when to stop for a bit. Take a break, grab a bowl of cereal or something. But when you have binges of going 3-11 that does slow you a lot.

You're on the upswing now tho. Keep your current pace and you'll be climbing just fine.

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