Let's talk about low Diamond.

bubbi·Dec 10, 2017·64 votes·19,756 views

So is Diamond 5 ever going to get fixed?

There's literally trolls, feeders, and boosted accounts in low Diamond. The division is straight up elo hell. I have over 1000 games now and half of them have been in diamond 5. I try my best to carry games and I do carry some games but then I lose one game and i lose 20+ LP. It's so frustrating. I feel like quitting ranked because I am not making anymore progress. Not only that but if i lose about 3-4 games when i'm 0 LP I don't derank instead my mmr just tanks more and makes my elo gain even lower and my elo loss even higher. I'm not the only one that has this problem others have this problem as well. For example, Tobias Fate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/324nnf/for_everyone_who_has_diamond_5_lp_problems/

It's been 2 years since this post on Reddit has been made. It has over 1900 up votes and Riot still hasn't come out with an official solution for this problem but that post did get a response from Riot.

"Hey folks, We are aware of the pain points around Diamond 5 right now. It's not exactly as you called out - you don't get set below the MMR for that division. The best way to think about this is that it's a funnel as you head up from Plat into Diamond and above. Right now, that funnel has a few corners in it. This is magnified by the protection that we give you when you get into a new tier. It's really painful to drop down from a tier so we give you a lot of leeway. The worst case is when you get into Diamond and go on a losing streak. Your MMR goes down but we don't drop you back into Plat for a while. So your LP gains for wins are going to be low and your losses high for a good while. We tread carefully here because people invest a lot of effort into each ranked season. We've got some changes planned but we want to test thoroughly first. I can't put a firm date on that, but we will be prioritizing this as a team. In the meantime, your wins still absolutely count and help you rise. Changes we make will smooth out how it feels, but ultimately wins and losses define where you'll land at the end of the season." by Riot_Mirross.

"It's really painful to drop down from a tier so we give you a lot of leeway." It's more painful to stay in Diamond 5 and gain 14 LP while losing more than 20 LP every game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSpWgvFhkOo&feature=youtu.be&t=6m10s Even IWDominate says that it's extremely hard to win games in low diamond.

This was someone's elo gain/loss spreadsheet from plat 1 to diamond 5 http://i.imgur.com/WnfGVk7.png 1st column: game number 2nd column: win = 1 loss = 0 3rd column: LP gain/loss 4th column: current division

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6lh0hp/diamond_5_is_true_elo_hell/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/30inwt/playing_in_diamond_5_is_the_most_frustrating/ https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/rPYQklIK-so-i-reached-diamond-5-and-now-im-just-going-to-play-one-game-per-month-for-the-rest-of-the-season

There are so many more posts that were made about this topic but not enough light has been shed. Please upvote so it gets noticed. And please Riot, I want an answer.

78 Comments

SnowplosionDec 10, 201717 votes

Any Division with a 5 in it is usually a fuck fest. It is more of an over-arching problem, but I think Diamond and Silver are the worst offenders of this Division 5 problem.

TheThundersRoarDec 10, 20173 votes

Hah, wait until you see Gold 5. Literally the worst division in the entire game. I can say with confidence that a team of bronzies can crush a team of Gold 5s and end before 20 minutes.

Gold 4 is suddenly real gold again, though.

BattalionDec 11, 20175 votes

I disagree. A lot of players end in Gold V or get placed in Gold V (as I did) when they play and win at least 50% of their games against Gold 3-Plat 2's in all their games. I have solo carried myself out of bronze into silver in a single night, which I have for my smurf. I was never placed into bronze so I wanted to prove to my friends that Bronze ELO hell does not exist, that if you truly deserve to be in Gold or higher you can and you will climb. Diamond 5 is truly ELO hell and Platinum is the most toxic league.

notice me Sin piDec 11, 20172 votes

im pretty there are people who deserve bronze I but are stuck at bronze II. And i think there are also people who deserve silver 4 stuck at bronze 1. But gold+ elo players like u would easily carry themselves out of bronze consistently and obviously. I do believe elo hell actually is a thing that can hold back few tiers even in bronze, tho anyone that deserves plat would never be stuck in bronze unless intentional.

BattalionDec 11, 20171 votes

I do not see myself as an overly skilled League of Legends player. The biggest problem I see in low ELO :

All chat (if you're typing you're not playing, that's counter productive)
Depending on your team , then being let down, then flaming. You're all in bronze because you're bad, that's the blunt truth, so don't depend on bad people to make good plays. Depend on yourself to make good decisions.
Play to get better, not to climb. Doing so only gets you stressed and you're going to fail the above point.
Team fighting, if your team is fighting, be there, don't be farming or pushing a lane unless you have no other option.

notice me Sin piDec 11, 20172 votes

if u only had to play 10 ranked games during an entire season to hit gold V, then you are probably an overly skilled player in bronze standards... i played hundreds to hit gold V in season 7 in comparison, n i still occasionally lose to bronzes in normals even in those few games where i actually go 110% tryhard mode.

i think flaming is really the only real problem tho in lower elo; all other things can sometimes actually help in winning, including all chats which sometimes actually work against enemy low elo players.

SnowplosionDec 11, 20171 votes

I actually tore through gold 5 on my way to plat. Honestly, gold felt like what silver should have been.

MorticianjohnDec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Any Division with a 5 in it is usually a fuck fest. It is more of an over-arching problem, but I think Diamond and Silver are the worst offenders of this Division 5 problem.

If you are a Bronze 3-4 caliber player getting stuck in Bronze 5 can be ELO hell, However, most players climb easily from Bronze 5 because they are bronze 1-2 caliber players or higher and that makes it pretty easy.

SnowplosionDec 11, 20171 votes

Bronze 5 has some of the dumbest of the dumb. It almost holds the rest of Bronze down.

BattalionDec 11, 20171 votes

I had the most fun smurfing in Bronze V, I wish Bronze V was a gamemode for a season reward for those in Gold V+

a sexy idiotDec 10, 201712 votes

Diamond 5 is really bad. Hopefully this post gets upvoted enough for riot to respond.

Harden StepbackDec 10, 20177 votes

if you are good enough you will climb, stop crying

DarkRoosterDec 10, 20177 votes

While there are some problems i find this to be true. At some point people stop improving and basically blames it on everything they can. You can still solo carry, or lose with decent results every time, LP gain can be fixed up quite fast.

Diamond is 2% of the player base, what makes them think they are good enough to be 0.04% of all players or 0.01% of all players. The carry train doesn't stop because of some issues, it stops because people are maybe playing decently, but not good enough anymore to advance.

Never seen semi pro or pro player crying about being stuck diamond 5. You people are not top 1% player material to get over diamond 5, if you would be you would actually be already there. Also the graph shows him earning quite little points, when i got on plat 1 train i was minimum + 25 LP. LP gain can be changed, but not by being every average diamond 5 velkoz player, point of advancing is to obviously be stronger than your current rank.

What solvable thing people want ? Either Riot makes diamond 5 easy it means that same bullshit will be higher and same people will still be hard stuck somewhere, they make diamond 5 hard most of the crying people here will never reach it.

Harden StepbackDec 10, 20174 votes

{quoted}

While there are some problems i find this to be true. At some point people stop improving and basically blames it on everything they can. You can still solo carry, or lose with decent results every time, LP gain can be fixed up quite fast.

Diamond is 2% of the player base, what makes them think they are good enough to be 0.04% of all players or 0.01% of all players. The carry train doesn't stop because of some issues, it stops because people are maybe playing decently, but not good enough anymore to advance.

Never seen semi pro or pro player crying about being stuck diamond 5. You people are not top 1% player material to get over diamond 5, if you would be you would actually be already there. Also the graph shows him earning quite little points, when i got on plat 1 train i was minimum + 25 LP. LP gain can be changed, but not by being every average diamond 5 velkoz player, point of advancing is to obviously be stronger than your current rank.

What solvable thing people want ? Either Riot makes diamond 5 easy it means that same bullshit will be higher and same people will still be hard stuck somewhere, they make diamond 5 hard most of the crying people here will never reach it.

Just a bunch of delusional people. I understand the occasionaly troll game here and there, but they fail to realize they probably won a fair share of games by trolls/afks/feeders being on the opposite team.

WeedbroDec 10, 20174 votes

bronze 4 is way worse though trust me bro fix bronze 4

yeechilDec 10, 201733 votes

trust me low diamond is worse than bronze.

WeedbroDec 10, 20172 votes

{quoted}

trust me low diamond is worse than bronze.

how is that possible though? that can't be possible.

option paralysisDec 10, 201714 votes

{quoted}

how is that possible though? that can't be possible.

it is man, in bronze you can play like ap nunu mid and win, but d5 everybody thinks they're some hot shit and play meta champs that they played like 1 time and they see "oh my guder, this chump is brken, me get challenger now hehe". Honestly, games in d5 are uninstall the game worthy. Too bad I still like the game so I keep playing it in chance of it getting better. But riot wants us to grind and grind and grind and grind.

Jet SettDec 11, 20171 votes

So basically, you've got good players, shit players, shit players that think they're good players, and then the feeders/AFKs/trolls?

It's like Bronze day 1 with a hard rank reset. Afterwards bronze filters itself out more

notice me Sin piDec 11, 20171 votes

While bronze 3 level of play should get you out of bronze 4 ideally, in reality it requires bare minimum mid silver level of play to get out of bronze4; even just smallest thing will trigger teammates into trolling. I can understand that portion of your argument. Even then, it's possible to solo carry out of bronze 4 if you are good with mechanics. Good mechanics does not require teammates after all, and in addition, bronze4 teammates are less likely to troll and try to lose the game if there's a teammate who is shitting the enemy in lane.

Meanwhile in diamond 5, it's not possible to solo carry out of that division with mechanics alone, as higher elo is more than just mechanics; macro is extremely important in high elo, and that requires teammates to have a brain. Because of boosting issues, a lot of people in diamond 5 will do just as well as a legit troll would do.

Regardless, both divisions share the same problem that OP has mentioned:

There's literally trolls, feeders, and boosted accounts

The difference is that one is carriable through improving your own mechanics alone, and the other is not. Diamond 5 is way worse than bronze 4 for that reason.

bywords70Dec 11, 20172 votes

explains why good players can easily boost out of d5 elo, makes sense

bubbiDec 11, 20172 votes

{quoted}

explains why good players can easily boost out of d5 elo, makes sense

By good players you mean masters +? Correct me if im wrong but you can make a new account and win streak your way through diamond since your MMR is so high. Im talking about people that got to DIamond for the first time and are trying to get out of it. I'm not a smurf lol

notice me Sin piDec 11, 20172 votes

that, is beyond my knowledge cuz im only gold elo. But i do believe my explanation is still true to some extent and is sufficient enough for explaining to a bronzie who thinks bronze is worse than diamond 5.

My best guess is that some unlucky loss streaks may lower a legit diamond 5's MMR to the level of a boosted diamond 5's MMR. Unlike in lower elo, queues are slower as well so they are less likely to get enough games to reach the theoractical win rate or MMR they deserve as well, creating an elo hell for some select individuals in diamond 5 who end up in the lower spectrum of the deserved theoratical MMR. But those unlucky streaks do not happen to actual good players who deserve master+ due to some magic I cannot comprehend. Even then, D5 elo hell holds true for people who deserve D4 or D3 in this case.

option paralysisDec 10, 20174 votes

I was thinking of doing the same thread too. But I did them multiple times throughout the years and it didn't help. I'm stuck in d5 for 3 seasons, ok last season I stopped playing ranked when I reached d5 cuz dynamic q lol. I reached diamond 2 this season and I was so happy until I was literally dragged back down to d5 with no chance of winning any games. Those were the most bullshit games I have ever played. I mean literally every game was decided by the 10 min mark and I couldn't do anything. I just kept losing. Now I get +15/+17 and lose -22 LP in fucking d5. Games are soooooooooo awful I wanna pull my hair out when playing. People are so bad or just don't care about the game, it's so fucking frustrating. I feel like you need to be 15/0 every game just to have a chance of winning some of these games. It's too toxic.

Troll for TrumpDec 10, 20174 votes

All 5s are horrible.

GG Thanks For LPDec 11, 20174 votes

As a Diamond 5, this elo is cancer. Its either "i dont care if we win", "Imma first time this champ" or like you said boosted players. It doesnt matter how good you do because your team doesnt know how to play even tho youre in D fucking 5.

Someone on your team is 9/0/2 at 10 minutes? Lets engage 1v5 the rest of the game so that 9/0/2 top laner cant carry the game anymore.

Enemy has 4 more kills than you, 1 more item than you, 3 more levels than you, and you still try to 1v1 him over and over?

Legit cant stand this elo anymore. This is the top 1% and I feel like i find better kids in Silver than Diamond. You go smurf in silver and people dont be dying till about 15 minutes. While in diamond, there will be about 19 deaths by the 15 minute mark total.

LakegaDec 11, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=GG Thanks For LP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8jkElKi8,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2017-12-11T09:48:41.606+0000)

As a Diamond 5, this elo is cancer. Its either "i dont care if we win", "Imma first time this champ" or like you said boosted players. It doesnt matter how good you do because your team doesnt know how to play even tho youre in D fucking 5.

Someone on your team is 9/0/2 at 10 minutes? Lets engage 1v5 the rest of the game so that 9/0/2 top laner cant carry the game anymore.

Enemy has 4 more kills than you, 1 more item than you, 3 more levels than you, and you still try to 1v1 him over and over?

Legit cant stand this elo anymore. This is the top 1% and I feel like i find better kids in Silver than Diamond. You go smurf in silver and people dont be dying till about 15 minutes. While in diamond, there will be about 19 deaths by the 15 minute mark total.

Yet this is what you experience in B5 all the time, and any B5 player who calls it "elo hell" is automatically dog piled by everyone else and is told to "Get good you'll climb" So I'll say the same to you, get good. Obviously you deserve your elo. At least that's what I'd be told if I ever dared say anything like you just did on the forums.

bubbiDec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yet this is what you experience in B5 all the time, and any B5 player who calls it "elo hell" is automatically dog piled by everyone else and is told to "Get good you'll climb" So I'll say the same to you, get good. Obviously you deserve your elo. At least that's what I'd be told if I ever dared say anything like you just did on the forums.

Bronze 5 in Bronze 5 or Bronze 5 in Diamond 5. Now the get good part? You see when smurfs do their placements they dont get placed in bronze so there aren't any smurfs in bronze to go with or against and no one boosts accounts to Bronze 5. Therefore, if youre in bronze 5. you belong there. But when there's a bronze in diamond 5 well..

GG Thanks For LPDec 11, 20174 votes

But B5 is like D5. The only people who deny that are ones with huge egos.

I have smurf account that was placed in Bronze 3, and that shit was literal cancer. Took me 2 weeks just to get to silver 3 because people either

A. Inted B. Afked/Had trash internet C. Troll/Troll Build

I would get like 12 cs/m and 10+ kills, but its way too complicated to carry when its a bot lane meta and bot lane is inting to the enemy adc.

LakegaDec 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=GG Thanks For LP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8jkElKi8,comment-id=001300000002,timestamp=2017-12-11T22:57:51.548+0000)

But B5 is like D5. The only people who deny that are ones with huge egos.

I have smurf account that was placed in Bronze 3, and that shit was literal cancer. Took me 2 weeks just to get to silver 3 because people either

A. Inted B. Afked/Had trash internet C. Troll/Troll Build

I would get like 12 cs/m and 10+ kills, but its way too complicated to carry when its a bot lane meta and bot lane is inting to the enemy adc.

I'm really happy to see a high elo player acknowledge the cancerous state bronze is in. Silver isn't much better, but it's bearable and easier to climb out of than bronze.

Best Vi EarthDec 12, 20171 votes

what you say it totally true. the 1 tricks/ 1 rolers in D5 are a problem if they get a off role or that one champ they play is banned they will totally take the brain of out their heads and put it in a blender then try to play

bubbiDec 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Vi Earth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8jkElKi8,comment-id=00130001,timestamp=2017-12-12T15:16:29.982+0000)

what you say it totally true. the 1 tricks/ 1 rolers in D5 are a problem if they get a off role or that one champ they play is banned they will totally take the brain of out their heads and put it in a blender then try to play

I wish there was like a VAC wave where Riot goes through accounts that are around Diamond and ban them for boosting.

LeonerdoDec 10, 20173 votes

"It's really painful to drop down from a tier so we give you a lot of leeway." It's more painful to stay in Diamond 5 and gain 14 LP while losing more than 20 LP every game.

No, it's not. I guarantee that anyone would be more stressed and pissed about hovering between Plat I and Diamond V, than being stuck at Diamond V 0LP. It's much better to have your Diamond rank be secure once you reach it the first time, especially late in the Season when you're worried about end-of-season rewards.

bubbiDec 11, 20173 votes

{quoted}

No, it's not. I guarantee that anyone would be more stressed and pissed about hovering between Plat I and Diamond V, than being stuck at Diamond V 0LP. It's much better to have your Diamond rank be secure once you reach it the first time, especially late in the Season when you're worried about end-of-season rewards.

Being held by a thread just so you can get end of the season rewards clearly means that you don't deserve those rewards.

LeonerdoDec 11, 20173 votes

Rewards are based on peak performance, with some level of consistency. That is, it doesn't matter where you start, or how rusty you get by the end of the year, but the highest Tier you can achieve at some point during the Season. That is only doable with the Tier demotion rules as they currently stand.

No one wants a Ranked system where the last month/week/day of the season is the only thing that matters for rewards. (Well, that's what Challenger players deal with, but that's okay because Challenger/Master has a lot of different rules because it's a different level of competition.)

To give one specific example, if you could easily drop from Diamond, then every D5 0LP player would quit playing Ranked in October/November just to avoid the risk of dropping right before the end of the Season. (Maybe not "every" one, but probably the majority of them.) Even if they wanted to shoot for D4, it's too much of a risk to play at 0LP since they could demote and may not have time to get grind back to D5.

And I'm really not convinced that there is any downside to the current system. Feeling like you're "not making anymore progress" will happen either way, unless you actually get better at the game. At least the current system keeps you from making negative progress.

bubbiDec 11, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Rewards are based on peak performance, with some level of consistency. That is, it doesn't matter where you start, or how rusty you get by the end of the year, but the highest Tier you can achieve at some point during the Season. That is only doable with the Tier demotion rules as they currently stand.

No one wants a Ranked system where the last month/week/day of the season is the only thing that matters for rewards. (Well, that's what Challenger players deal with, but that's okay because Challenger/Master has a lot of different rules because it's a different level of competition.)

To give one specific example, if you could easily drop from Diamond, then every D5 0LP player would quit playing Ranked in October/November just to avoid the risk of dropping right before the end of the Season. (Maybe not "every" one, but probably the majority of them.) Even if they wanted to shoot for D4, it's too much of a risk to play at 0LP since they could demote and may not have time to get grind back to D5.

And I'm really not convinced that there is any downside to the current system. Feeling like you're "not making anymore progress" will happen either way, unless you actually get better at the game. At least the current system keeps you from making negative progress.

Half of the people sitting at Diamond 5 0 LP are boosted account. If they remove this barrier, imagine how clean diamond 5 would get.

LeonerdoDec 11, 20174 votes

There are not that many boosted accounts in D5. And no one actually plays ranked after being boosted anyways (aside from stopping rank decay), because they quickly find out that they can't win with boosted MMR. AND it's still possible to get boosted at the end of the season and get Diamond rewards without playing at all, protection or not. There are better ways of dealing with boosters anyways.

Dragon ZyraDec 11, 20171 votes

^ I don't understand the downvotes on Leonerdo. There are only around 10k accounts above D5 in NA. Thinking half of those are boosted is exaggerated and delusional.

Climbing to D5 is already a huge challenge of work and especially patience and not tilt. Complaining about the shielding is ridiculous.

No one wants to get demoted to Plat 1 after all that work. If you go on a losing streak at 0LP, without the shielding you could even be in Plat IV and that's much more demoralizing to the player and not encouraging to go back.

Zone of EndlessDec 11, 20172 votes

{quoted}

No, it's not. I guarantee that anyone would be more stressed and pissed about hovering between Plat I and Diamond V, than being stuck at Diamond V 0LP. It's much better to have your Diamond rank be secure once you reach it the first time, especially late in the Season when you're worried about end-of-season rewards.

It really suck to lose more than you gain. The only time I ever get demoralized from playing league is when I'm losing more LP than i'm getting per game. I'd rather if they just demote me so I can get more LP per win than losing because at the end of the day plat 1 and d5 is all the same.

I got a losing streak in D5 and was gaining 15 LP per game and losing about 20 or so. Even if I get 1 win and 1 loss every single time I'd never get my promo. I can go on a 3 games winning streak but it only takes 2 losses to bring me back to zero. It's a massive hurdle to get a good winning streak and then pray that you don't lose more than 1 game or else all your efforts are gone to waste.

Ramen226Dec 11, 20173 votes

Upvoted

Even though if anybody says this about any elo lower than plat they're met with the fiery rage of a thousand "git guds"

PiVoRxDec 11, 20173 votes

D5 is 2nd core reason i dont play this game anymore, how im supposted to keep playing if i lose 2x more LP than i gain?

GelsominoKillerDec 10, 20172 votes

In this season I have peaked D4 two times. In both cases soon after the promotion I got an horrible series of losses and got demoted. Those games were unbelievably filled with trolls, flamers, ragers, inters and afk. I may not have played well, but I literally had an Alistair running down mid, and a Challenger hero going afk after our toplaner gave out first blood, and many others... This incredible toxicity made me just give up ranked play in soloq. I started Silver 3 this season and I can assure you I have never encountered such trash human beings like those in D5.

LakegaDec 11, 20172 votes

lol I love the idiocy of league forums.

B5, S5, G5 all say "elo hell" and everyone dog piles them saying it doesn't exist, and get good, you'll climb, blah blahb lah. As soon as a higher elo says "elo hell" everyone patst hem on the back and agrees with them.. ffs.

Does elo hell exist or not? Or is this one of those "You're wrong.. unless you're high elo then you're automatically right" bullshit moments?

highniviaJan 5, 20182 votes

I dogpile d5 players aswell since they literally just deserve it if they call it elohell. Elohell is a concept of bullshit and it doesnt exist in any way shaper form. If you are good enough you are able to climb out of it. Its just the fact that the skill gap between d5 and d4 is bigger than the other ones making it appear more like the elo hell and the fact your mmr just goes to dog shit the moment you get d5. Thats why its harder to climb out of d5 than any other 5s division but that doesnt mean its elohell it only means its fckin harder so you need to be an actual d4 player. There is a reason why everyone real dia player mocks hardstuck d5 players since its literally just shiny plat until you get to d4 which really isnt that hard to accomplish.

LakegaJan 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I dogpile d5 players aswell since they literally just deserve it if they call it elohell. Elohell is a concept of bullshit and it doesnt exist in any way shaper form. If you are good enough you are able to climb out of it. Its just the fact that the skill gap between d5 and d4 is bigger than the other ones making it appear more like the elo hell and the fact your mmr just goes to dog shit the moment you get d5. Thats why its harder to climb out of d5 than any other 5s division but that doesnt mean its elohell it only means its fckin harder so you need to be an actual d4 player. There is a reason why everyone real dia player mocks hardstuck d5 players since its literally just shiny plat until you get to d4 which really isnt that hard to accomplish.

To be honest, I disagree. I do think elo hell exists, but it's not in the same spot, and it doesn't exist for everyone. Elo hell is a personal concept and experience.

There's a point in this game hwere your skill cannot carry you games, but your skill is still higher than those around you. Let me explain.

Say a silver is playing on a higher elo, but not by a big margin. Say he's only playing at high gold level, he knows how to lane, he knows how to farm, he knows where to be in teamfights and how to teamfight, but this game isn't meant to solo carry games unless you're exceptionally better than everyone else. This is essentially "elo hell" for that player. He's obviously better than everyone around him but his team keeps making costly mistakes kepeing him in this elo.

Sure "Eventually" he'll get good enough to get out of that elo slowly, but that taking as long as it does, surely is "hell".

You can point at pro's and the top 1% and say "oh well if they can do it everyone can!" but that's so much bullshit attached to that comment I refuse to argue with it.

Some people's elo hell may be Bronze, or silver, or diamond, or platinum.. But everyone has an elo hell, if they hit that point. Some people never do, or are blind to the fact it exists so they don't even see it, or some people simply are too good natured to care, and so it doesn't exist at all for them. Many different aspects and angles to it and not everyones elo hell is the same.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It most certainly does.

highniviaJan 10, 20181 votes

If a legit Silver Player is in Gold elo hes not better than the players around him cus then he wouldnt be silver he would be gold. And i never used Pros as an example i used myself as example in where i got shitty mmr and a loss streak when i hit d5 aswell but i still managed to get out of d5 in solo and flex queue without any issues when i stopped playing like a d5 player and playing like a d4 player thats simply how it works. I like the way your Argument and you saying that Elo Hell is perception but thats not what these players mean when they say elo hell they mean a legit elo that is impossible to get out of despite being better than the players around you. This simply cant happen cus if you were to be a plat player you could climb in Gold and if you were a Gold player you could climb in silver like all the people that are gold and plat right now did before you.

KythersDec 11, 20172 votes

I've had no issues climbing out of D5 for 5 seasons in a row. Yeah, there's a lot more variance in it than D4 and up, but that doesn't make it impossible, it just might take you more (or less) games to even out. I'd argue plat 2-1 is far worse than D5, considering the amount of boosters and smurfs that hang out in that elo

highniviaJan 5, 20181 votes

I mean my man i got from gold 3 or smth to d3 in 1 season while having a 7 game loss streak on d5 0 lp. And yea the mmr is absolute shit but if you manage to maintain a 67 percent winrate you should be fine to climb and if you are truely a d4 player and not a d5 player you should manage to do that since others have to. Obvisously this makes the Skill gap between d5 and d4 huge (like the skill gap between bronze and silver 1) but its still easily possible and there is a reason why ppl call d5 basically unreal dia since there are as much players in d5 as there are in all the divisions below it all together.

Risy95Jul 23, 20181 votes

This is a bit old, but I still share my experiences. First, I'm just a silver player, at least this is what you can see on my profile. I helped my friend climb out from Bronze V, and it wasn't that bad. Usually I carried my lane, but lost the match... However sometimes I lost only 10 LP and got 25, so I just had to focus more for the promotion. I have a player in my ignore list who is in Diamond V for 4 years I think. I reported and blocked him because he was very toxic, blamed everyone in the team and threw the match. If there are a bunch of players like him, then I think I can imagine how bad Diamond V can be. I never really cared about ranked, I don't know if I ever reach Diamond, but I'll share my experiences if I do. By the way, I think players should drop from Diamond V (and the others) , so the number of trolls would slowly decrease. It would affect the other players too, but they could climb back later.

SkyversalSep 17, 20181 votes

So based on what i've read so far: It appears that getting to 0 lp in diamond doesnt get you demoted but makes your mmr complete stupidity making it so you cant demote to rest the mmr in easier games nor be able to get to d4 with just 12 lp gains per game and 20 lp losses per game too you have to win double what you lose when theres people who have been stuck for thousands of games and dont care anymore so 1 tricks try out new picks and get shit on by other 1 tricks playing their actual mains and people will go afk in 3 mins cuz they know they aint demoting and inting gets through most of the time and even if it doesnt the damage will still go through and people wont stop inting. That looks like a good elo to look forward to.... Thanks riot really encouraging people to climb up there