Meaning that a lot of people don't enjoy playing AP into AD, because it's frustrating to have your opponent do damage while easily getting resists.
And the best solution on the boards is to add more armour and AP items, so that both sides can have the same problem.
I mean, come on.
Illâoi Evê Siôn2 votesMy solution would be to heavily nerf Hexdrinker's passive -- for example, changing its shield's value to [100 + 100% bonus Magic Resistance] from [110 -- 280 based on level] -- and make it build into Edge of Night. Edge of Night and Maw would be unchanged. It would work similarly to how Spectre's Cowl upgrades into Banshee's Veil and Spirit Visage: one option enforces the theme/passive it already has (sustain -> Maw), the other shifts it to the opposite (preparation -> Edge of Night).
ADs would still get the same amount of MR in the end, but what this does is remove a lot of power until they get there. Hexdrinker no longer offers the same power-spike in the early to mid-game it did before. If you build Maw and another Hexdrinker for Edge of Night you waste one passive. If you build Edge of Night into Maw you're automatically squishier because you lose Maw's shield strength. If Mages are too powerful during this time, it might not be possible to build both items on anyone other than Assassins, making them indirectly mutually exclusive. If they do build both, it will take so long that Mages won't have to rush Void Staff in order to still deal damage.
If the "buff" of having Hexdrinker building into Edge of Night is too strong, they could also nerf its Magic Resistance.
MissingKayo1 voteshttp://i.imgur.com/i5GIT2z.jpg/?noredirect
Boards seems to be a fan of the Valve way.
Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ1 votesI don't get why ADs need so much MR and APs keep getting health.... Why can't there just be one or two AR-MR and one or two AP-AR items that aren't loaded with passives and actives?
MissingKayo1 votesBecause that's boring
Kappa
Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ1 votes[zombie-brand-facepalm] lol
Asayake 5150glow3 votes[{quoted}](name=Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8j84AiRV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-12T23:31:35.400+0000)
I don't get why ADs need so much MR and APs keep getting health.... Why can't there just be one or two AR-MR and one or two AP-AR items that aren't loaded with passives and actives?
Because AD damage is based off damage amps from penning armor, while AP damage is based off huge numbers that when reduced by MR, are still enough to oneshot.
Fighting a 3k health 120 armor Brand is stupid.
Fighting a 3k health 180 MR Rengar is stupid too, but at least he doesn't have range or a stun.
Assassins are a stupid class, right now, to be honest. They should be balanced around punishing someone who gets out of position - as it is, they just oneshot, or they don't. Delaying their damage means someone needs to be seriously out of position to kill them. They should be fast with no AoE/first champion hit skillshots so that diving into the middle of the enemy team means you will do absolutely 0 damage to your intended target.
Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ2 votesYou're comparing a Mage to an Assassin. Yes, 
has range and CC, but 
has mobility and a cleanse. And trust me--ADs can one-shot just as much as APs.
AP burst damage is also countered by HP, and Mages can't use auto attacks for extra damage (unless they have 
, but even that has a 2.5s cooldown and only few ever buy the item.)
Assassins would probably be healthier if they didn't have a CC-removal item 
, an automatic magic shield 
, and an item that lets them block an ability 
. I honestly don't think a class designed to kill people will be healthy in what is meant to be a strategy-based MOBA, but Riot can't remove the class; they just reworked it and a lot of people main Assassins.
Asayake 5150glow2 votes[{quoted}](name=Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8j84AiRV,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-03-13T00:27:18.925+0000)
You're comparing a Mage to an Assassin. Yes,
Assassins would probably be healthier if they didn't have a CC-removal item
You must realize that range outclasses mobility most of the time. Range equals safety - Mobility equals safety net. Safety net's are for bailing you out of taking a risk, but safety means you simply don't have to take the risk.
Exactly. AP damage is countered by HP a lot more than it is by MR, which is why AD Assassins only got 1 HP+AD item, and even that isn't supposed to be an assassin item (BC)
Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ3 votesRange is only safety if you can stay out of range. If a mobile champion wants to attack you in their range, they can use their abilities to catch up to you. Most Assassins also have a way of escaping a fight, whether it's CC removal, stealth, or another mobility spell.
What I'm saying is AP is countered by both HP and HP, while AD isn't as heavily countered by HP. Because of this, it makes no sense to give ADs MR while only giving APs some HP.
I honestly don't think APs need more armor. They just need to remove the CDR from 
, up the price a bit, reduce the stasis cooldown, and give it either more AP or more AR. I'd like to see the overloaded defense from ADs gone though--Assassins are countered by CC, but that doesn't matter when it's gone.
Asayake 5150glow2 votes[{quoted}](name=Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8j84AiRV,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-13T00:49:19.137+0000)
Range is only safety if you can stay out of range. If a mobile champion wants to attack you in their range, they can use their abilities to catch up to you. Most Assassins also have a way of escaping a fight, whether it's CC removal, stealth, or another mobility spell.
What I'm saying is AP is countered by both HP and HP, while AD isn't as heavily countered by HP. Because of this, it makes no sense to give ADs MR while only giving APs some HP.
I honestly don't think APs need more armor. They just need to remove the CDR from
That is completely untrue. ...
Ok, fine. It's only true in a 1v1.
Range means you have peel, cc, and damage from your teammates to back you up. I'm talking about the Nautilus standing in front of you, the Janna to your left, and the Jhin to your right. Meanwhile, AD assassin are literally 1v5/4/3'ing.
AP isn't as countered by MR stacking because the more MR stacked, the less effective it becomes. Keep in mind that AP gets massive numbers for this - a Talon doesn't have nearly as much damage as a Viktor or Syndra.
Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ1 votesI see what you're saying, but if you're in a teamfight, you can have your allies peel for you too while you use your mobility to reach the backline. It's harder to do and requires more planning, but your 
can just ult away their 
and your 
can just grab their 
. Now the 
is exposed.
MR effectiveness doesn't decrease as long as you build HP. And because (like I stated before) AP is countered by HP, it is easier to counter a Mage's damage by building both MR and HP. There's also less flat and % Mpen. than ARpen.
Err... 
actually does a lot of damage, not sure why you included that last line. xD
Assassins tend to have more strength early-game, while Mages have it in their mid-game or late-game, depending on who you play.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8j84AiRV,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-13T01:10:09.717+0000)
I see what you're saying, but if you're in a teamfight, you can have your allies peel for you too while you use your mobility to reach the backline. It's harder to do and requires more planning, but your
MR effectiveness doesn't decrease as long as you build HP. And because (like I stated before) AP is countered by HP, it is easier to counter a Mage's damage by building both MR and HP. There's also less flat and % Mpen. than ARpen.
Err...
Those are very specific displacements, though. Melee range CC is much less effective as well, especially if your tank can't engage for you. Obviously, following up on a Zac E or Malph ult works, but with a Maokai, for example, is only gonna CC one person (unless they're heavily grouped) for a short amount of time, and then they'll turn around and stun you. Janna isn't gonna be able to CC them effectively, because of her Q travel speed, etc.
But they can't build HP - that's the point. They've only got Cleaver. To be fair Void Staff's penning base MR is already 18 flat MP at lvl 18, add that to 15 from Sorc's and that's 32 'flat' pen and 35% 'bonus' pen.
He does a lot of damage, but he doesn't have a lot of damage. That's because you're only getting, say, 5% damage reduction. He's got only 2k damage, but you're taking 1.9k of it because of your shit damage reduction. Meanwhile, you get 40% damage reduction against a mage, but they got 3k damage, and thus do roughly the same amount of damage to you.
Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ1 votesMelees often have more defensive abilities and/or more CC/mobility. Vanguards are a thing, too. They have at least one ability that lets them CC multiple enemies--sometimes even entire teams, like 
's ultimate.
They can't build HP because of how much defense they already have. If Assassins could build HP, MR, and have their defensive abilities from spells and items, they would be quite broken. 
is the only item with % Mpen, and then there's 
's two final items. It gives 45% bonus ARpen, which makes it stronger against Tanks. There's also everyone's favorite Lethality, and 
, unlike any AP item, shreds AR.
If deals 2k damage, and you have 5% damage reduction, you will only take 1.9k damage, correct. But if you take 3k damage from and you have 40% damage reduction, they will be dealing 1.8k damage, which is still less than what the . Remember that champions also have auto attacks. You might not have much time to be AA'ing enemies as in the middle of a teamfight, but a 's auto attacks will deal very little damage. His abilities are also easier to avoid than an Assassin's, which is one of the best ways to counter a Mage.
##_Good night! ;3 _
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Evêñtfûl Hôrïzôñ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8j84AiRV,comment-id=000100010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-13T01:56:41.309+0000)
Melees often have more defensive abilities and/or more CC/mobility. Vanguards are a thing, too. They have at least one ability that lets them CC multiple enemies--sometimes even entire teams, like
They can't build HP because of how much defense they already have. If Assassins could build HP, MR, and have their defensive abilities from spells and items, they would be quite broken.
If
##_Good night! ;3 _
Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's why they get 3 MR items and only 1 health item.
Those were numbers I literally chose to balance out. It was 3.16k damage to be precise.
Also, you fail to realize - Talon's damage - and all other AD assassins - a large portion of it comes from 1 or 2 autos during their assassination. Their abilities alone would never be enough to oneshot, unless they're insanely fed.
GULAG 4 U1 votesExcept people forget that most ad mids are only good at killing things, and they do not posses the cc not range of ap mids.
