Damage creep. Level 6 all ins are more powerful than ever in the mid lane thanks to thunderlords
Tank creep. Thanks to colossus, every tank that has easy-to-land cc is now an invincible pile of bs
Tank assassins. Pretty much every assassin that made place in s6 has been played somewhat tanky. Zed, Ekko, Yasuo, Fizz, Akali. Seriously though, are there even an upside to these keystones?
Junkο28 votesKeystone masteries are pretty much a completely failed attempt at changing the game so it doesn't look stale.
People say Riot wanted to add "diversity" and "meaningful choices", but there is none of that when there is only 1 keystone for every role.
Asayake 5150glow4 votesKeystone masteries are pretty much a completely failed attempt at changing the game so it doesn't look stale.
People say Riot wanted to add "diversity" and "meaningful choices", but there is none of that when there is only 1 keystone for every role.
Well no... Warlords vs Fervor for some, then Riven can run Stormraiders, CotC, Fervor, and Tlords.
venomous frost6 votesonly yasuo uses warlords, and riven being able to use multiple keystones is just an exception.
Generally speaking most champs only have 1 viable choice
Pimasterchampion3 votesadcs that build triple crit go warlords
Junkο2 votesOnly because Fervor is shit right now.
And even then it is a problem. Everybody goes Warlords instead of Fervor, so there is still no diversity.
ChaoticPinecone2 votesADC is quite possibly the most diverse role for masteries. Warlords is currently the most popular. Some pokey-ADCs (MF, Jhin, Varus) like Deathfire. Burst likes Thunderlords (Corki, Ezreal, Quinn). Fervor, while not as strong as the other options, isnt terrible - personally I just think the champion/s that would have liked it (in other words, the ones who get lifesteal and attack speed early into the game, like Kalista and pre-crit Q Vayne) have fell off. And if you are in dire need to kite, Stormraiders is pretty solid once you get a couple items under you.
But even as it is, having 3 meta mastery choices for one role is pretty good - out of 9 choices, is about as much as you could ask for. Compare that to the class of Juggernauts, and ADCs are in a great spot for mastery diversity.
Junkο4 votesYou are missing the point. Jhin, MF and Varus (2 of those are unviable, go figure) going DFT while everyone else goes Warlords(except the ADCs that don't even go bot lane) doesn't mean diversity. Keystones were supposed to add diversity FOR CHAMPION SPECIFIC CHOICES.
http://i.imgur.com/bKyMdzD.png
This is not diversity.This is simply a champion picking a mastery that is the only viable option for him, which just results in him getting free stats that are a headache for balance for no reason. There is really no reason for keystones to exist because there is no choice in which one to take.
ChaoticPinecone1 votes"Unviable"? Where are you getting that Jhin, MF, or Varus are "unviable"? http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=ADC&sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend Those three champions are numbers 3, 5, and 6 respectively in winrate among ADCs. So unless youre trying to say that Jhin is unviable, youre just trashing Varus and MF for no reason.
Secondly, you CAN be diverse in champion specific choices. Jhin and Varus excel with DFT due to their poke and generally build around their hard-hitting poke, while MF likes going for the massive AoE burn. You can easily go with a standard IE/Shiv build on all 3 of them and take warlords instead (by the numbers, Varus ADC takes warlords > DFT). Or you can go for the single-target E max MF with Thunderlords.
Just because youre stuck in your meta-sheep mindset doesnt mean we all are. Keystones do add diversity for champion specific choices, but only if you open your mind to the idea. Thats how the "meta" masteries for Ezreal shifted from Thunderlords to Fervor (and is still stuck at fervor). Its how Varus went from DFT to Warlords. Its how MF went from Thunderlords to DFT.
Junkο1 votesSion support has 55% winrate, an insane 60% with just 5 games of experience too! How the fuck is nobody playing and abusing this broken freelo?
Seriously though, winrate doesn't mean shit out of context.
ChaoticPinecone1 votesWinrate and playrate (or replication) are possibly the two greatest considerations for viability. Sion support has a high winrate, but low playrate. Varus has a 5% playrate. MF has a 7.5% playrate. Thats very different form SIon's .86% playrate.
Again, what makes Varus and MF unviable?
Junkο1 votesThe top 5 ADCs have 20-30% pick rate, that alone makes MF's and Varus's winrate completely insignificant.
SpecterVonBaren2 votesTaking Warlords means an ADC doesn't have to buy a lifesteal item so they can just get crit, attack speed, and AD. And given that they are the most item dependent class in the game, why wouldn't they pick the mastery that lets them completely skip a stat for more damage?
Festive Bear1 votesFervor is very special, cuz it's only for champions that usually build a lot of sustain and deal tons of sustained damage. Like Yi (I main him)
sit kid12 votesWe all know, if you want to win with riven, you take CoC to become a damage dealing, and tanky monster
Asayake 5150glow6 votesWe all know, if you want to win with riven, you take CoC to become a damage dealing, and tanky monster
Nah high elo Riven's usually run Stormraiders.
e.g. Dekar uses it exclusively last I heard.
That's because we don't need to be tanky if you're cc'd in the duration of our oneshotting you anyway, or because shields don't help in getting away (just surviving a bit longer, but movespeed + slow resist is better against slows than a shield).
dominusx3 votespretty much only dekar consistently uses storm and he is usually smurfing in low masters diamond when he himself is a challenger 600lp lvl player. most use tld and coc
Automated Riven2 votesI am pretty sure viper uses stormraiders a fair bit. Boxbox uses it in specific matchups.
devdev4632 votesWe all know, if you want to win with riven, you take CoC to become a damage dealing, and tanky monster
Is that why tlords is her highest win rate keystone?
sit kid2 voteshttp://www.champion.gg/champion/Riven
Hmm, not sure where you get your information from
devdev4631 voteshttp://www.champion.gg/champion/Riven
Hmm, not sure where you get your information from
Funny I got that information from champ gg, last I checked it thunderlords was her highest. Champ gg doesn't seem like the most relevent of sources though, as I see a ton of wierd stats when ever I check it.
For example, on champ gg it says that aatroxs win rate only goes up as the game goes on, and yet aatrox is very clearly not a late game focused champion. On that same page it also says that between 50-125 games played aatrox has a 64% win rate, but at the 125+ games played, goes down to 43%.
sit kid1 votesthe graph vary alot due to inconsistency, due to it focusing on one patch which might not give a good sample. They have 2 weeks of collecting data before starting over when a new patch arrives. Of course that period is extended in 6.24 due to it being a longer patch
Junkο2 votesYasuo and maybe Tryndamere are the only ones who have a choice between Warlords or Fervor.
Before Fervor was gutted, Draven and Vayne took Warlords, Varus and Jhin took DFG and everybody else took Fervor, there was no choice. Now everybody takes Warlords except Varus and Jhin, there is still no choice.
Riven and mages that can run both Stormraiders and TLD/DFG(depending if you are a burst mage or a DoT mage) are the only ones who actually have a choice. For majority of other champions only 1 mastery is viable.
Automated Riven2 voteslets be fair. Riven cann run warlords. but its not that great (altho I do like it on jungle riven). same with grasp.
Barrclaw3 votesIf you honestly think that there is only one keystone for every role then get the fuck off the boards as your insight on the games issues is worth jack shit
Junkο4 votesNow that's just cute.
Tanks take Grasp if they have no CC than can proc CoC, they get CoC otherwise.
Heal/shield supports get Windspeakers.
Assassins get TLD.
Burst mages get TLD.
DPS mages get Stormraiders or DFT.
Poke champs get DFT.
ADCs get Warlords (except Jhin).
AA based fighters get Fervor, spell based fighters get TLD.
Yasuo and Trynd can pick between Warlords and Fervors.
That's literally it. There are no other options. Seriously just check champion.gg which only uses data from Plat+ games, and you will see that for 99% of champions their most common keystone and their highest winrate keystone are both the same. There is no choice, it's literally just a "This mastery is the only one good on my champion so I'll take this". Hell there are champions who don't even have a viable keystone which are pushed out of viability for literally no reason but because Riot wanted to add a gimmick.
Critmaster Garen2 votesTanks take Grasp if they have no CC than can proc CoC, they get CoC otherwise.
i dont think there are tanks without hard cc.
also, grasp is garbage. nobody really wants it.
Junkο2 votesThere are some very very few tanks, like Mundo or Illaoi.
Critmaster Garen3 votesThere are some very very few tanks, like Mundo or Illaoi.
mundo and illaoi are juggernauts, not tanks.
and illaoi takes dft.
WoonStruck1 votesNunu's the only one, and I'm pretty sure he's in a class of his own.
He can hardly be considered a tank (Vanguard or Warden), but at the same time the only thing he can be described as is a tank, which is why Riot just said 'fuck it' and called him a Warden.
Serber1 votes[deleted]
Junkο2 votesAre you dense?
Masteries were supposed to add choice when PLAYING A SPECIFIC CHAMPION. If you think there is any actual choice on which masteries to take on which champions, then you are delusional.
http://i.imgur.com/bKyMdzD.png
Damn what diversity!
RavenMagus2 votesDFT vs Thunderlords is an interesting decision on some mages that can be played as either burst or DPS, like Annie.
cocacolalips1 votesThere are more options than just keystones ;o
If you check a random lolalytics page (the best website for data with 25 millions plat+ games over the past 7 days) the distribution is often all over the place across all 3 masteries.
Example: Shyvana: http://lolalytics.com/champion/Shyvana/ all tier 4 masteries have 33% pick rate when you can only pick 2.
Junkο1 votesHonestly I'm completely fine with the rest of the masteries, they are pretty decently balanced (only Ferocity is a bit disappointing because it is pretty much a giant "are you AD or AP?" choice). If they replace keystones with masteries that are better than the rest and more versatile but not as game impacting as well as add 3 choices to every tier then the mastery system would be great.
Critmaster Garen9 votesthe problem is, that all % damage amplification masteries made it into season 6.
while all the actual defensive masteries that grant flat resistances or % damage reduction have been removed or heavily nerfed. thats really it.
i mean compare the season 5 defensive tree to the season 6 resolve tree. resolve is almost entirely health regeneration and utility instead of actual defense. the only universally good mastery that was added was fearless.
the other masteries that grant defensive stats are garbage or champion specific and highly situational. including CoC, which supports specific champions instead of specific playstiles.
defensive masteries that have not made it into new resolve mastery trees:
simply a lot of inherent defense from masteries was lost in the transition from the season 5 to season 6 trees, while ferocity and cunning gained powerful masteries and keystones that compare to the old damage masteries.
i mean one of the resolve keystones is even just a damage mastery for some reason.
Crett2 votesold %missing health regen perseverance... old %health from veteran's scars... OHHH how I stacked the %hp runes and cinderhulk with those on sion theG OOd old days.....
SpecterVonBaren7 votesSiegemaster is probably the most insulting defensive mastery. 8 armor and mr when near an allied turret...
LankPants2 votes"you're losing lane, have a worthless amount of resists that probably won't help you when they dive with double Thunderlords"
Thanks Rito.
PokladnicaZla2 votesNot to mention you go put points into the utlity tree and still get 2% damage increase wth allies around,% increased damage to low hp targets,new brush mastery,pen and thunderlords. I mean,shouldn't the utility tree,have,Idk,more utlity? XD
SociopathFriend5 votesSome of this would be "intent of the mastery" rather than the impact but:
Reinforced "good" playstyles like long-range champions actually going within AA range to get off the thunderlord proc easier rather than never walking anywhere near their opponent.
Brought a few tanks that weren't being used quite as often back into the spotlight with colossus and the shield.
Made sustain easier for toplaners to lane against ranged champions via grasp of the undying.
Gave supports more options via 45% CDR, tanky options with other masteries, damage options with offensive ones, or boosting their shields.
Like if you want to say they "achieved" nothing then the massive range of balance changes around them would prove you dead-wrong. If you mean they've achieved nothing positive then I would disagree.
IEvenTiltTime4 votesThe real issue is that they force the developers to make nerfs that weren't necessary in the first place, if Zed is doing too much damage with Thunderlord's then Zed gets a nerf that will put him in the same average damage output prior to Thunderlord's release meaning that if he took anything but Thunderlord's he will actually be weaker then he was before Keystones. They're not really achieving anything but warping the game balance.
Brain Errör 4044 votesWhile I like runes because they are SUPER customizable, I think they should completely scrap the Mastery system and give the rune system a complete overhaul to add actual depth to the game. They can then make it so you can customize your rune page in the game just like you can do with masteries. The slight damage increase and other bonuses you get from runes are MORE than enough. I don't believe you need masteries to further increase all that damage.
I feel league would be way more balanced this way.
Rebonack2 votesThe Mastery system still needs a complete overhaul.
Have something like 10 or so Masteries of roughly equal power in each category and you get to pick three of them. You could include the current Keystones in that list, but several of them would probably need to be nerfed a bit for the power level to even out. Given the sheer number of combinations, chances are there would be several attractive options for every class provided a decent job is done creating and balancing them.
Ralanr2 votesThe Mastery system still needs a complete overhaul.
Have something like 10 or so Masteries of roughly equal power in each category and you get to pick three of them. You could include the current Keystones in that list, but several of them would probably need to be nerfed a bit for the power level to even out. Given the sheer number of combinations, chances are there would be several attractive options for every class provided a decent job is done creating and balancing them.
Good luck with that.
CrazedPorcupine2 votesHealing/shielding supports are finally viable compared to the tanky initiator support bretheren that have dominated since season 4.
Karma/Nami/Soraka have all been top tier in the last 2 seasons, finally able to compete against the likes of shen/poppy/trundle/braum/thresh supports.
Sckullzz1 votesNone of those assassins mentioned are tanky... Yas isn't even an assassin, he's a skirmisher. Slayer to be exact.
Tank Ekko and Tanky Yas are a complete separate issue and don't actually have anythying to do with masteries...
Ralanr2 votesBeyond fervor and grasp at the time. It was an item problem though.
ahferroin72 votesRiot refuses to call Yasuo an assassin, but he's an assassin in the same sense as Ekko. They're both insanely hard to kill if played well, do very well with ambush tactics, and have a strong tendency to burst people down pretty fast.
