@riot adc's need new items.

Jonathan Comets··2 votes·1,539 views

With lethality replacing armor pen and all of the flat armor pen items changed to fit assassins with the exception of item 3071 item 3036 item 3033, there is nothing left for adc's. item 3142 was good for some champs that could benefit from the stats but cannot with the new update. Draven Jhin Twitch Lucian MissFortune The Flat armor pen movement speed and attack speed stats helped kite,damage, or escape. Rammus Braum Volibear Garen Maokai Nautilus Nasus Skarner Trundle Maw of Malmortius (item 3156) helped with adding magic resist and added flat pen as well but that is being changed to cooldown. item 3147 this was also good, you could benefit from the execution it delivered with long range champs such as Jhin Draven Caitlyn. I understand the need for an assassin update even items but not only do adc's have to worry about completely invisible assassins Shaco, champions made to target you Zed, or crazy mobility and damage. Talon Rengar Katarina You now have to worry about meta tanks with high CC champs locking you down and not being able to damage them because you have no flat pen, escape, or extra defense for items to turn to. The update on top of the item take away is going to limit the champions you want to play. I'd have to stick with Ezreal Corki Tristana Vayne to stay alive and even that is going to be hard with the assassin update. I'm not asking for reworks just new items that help give lethality stats and movement speed actives or passives. Dodging assassins mids, jg's, lockdown meta tanks does not give an adc who only has summoner 4 for an escape a fighting chance and does not make the game much fun either. The build paths are going to be boring and if you do not get fed you are not going to a very fun game as adc in general.

30 Comments

Ralanr3 votes

It's called crit. You build it to do damage late.

Jonathan Comets2 votes

Rammus Braum Maokai so i build crit and i've dodge assasins all game, yet it falls off late to high CC armor buffing tanks. then what?

Ralanr3 votes

Get a Lord Dom and kite them like a good little ADC.

Jonathan Comets2 votes

some champs kite better than others Ezreal Vayne Corki vs Varus Jhin Draven Jinx. You can only dodge so much with jhin or jinx. If a mid assasin comes at you lvl 6 with a naut who is also lvl 6 how much do you think you're dodging or kiting. Pretty much insta death every time they have their ults up with the lack of items adc's have. I'm all for the assassin update. i just think adc's need some items with actives too to survive every once in a while

Ralanr3 votes

Almost like you need your team to peel for you.

Some can kite better than others, but all can kite relatively well with proper positioning.

Sherogarth3 votes

You know that's the whole point of this change? Adc's should stick to thier crit and attack speed, flat armor pen was an abomination in adc's builds.

Jonathan Comets1 votes

reason they used it in the first place though because tanks were and juggernauts where dominating everything which is what will happen again. someone before posted that you could have lethality runes which is fine. however as much pressure you're going to be getting from assassin and high CC tanks i wish they'd make more active items that compliment movement speed or something. so you can make it out sometimes.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

reason they used it in the first place though because tanks were and juggernauts where dominating

I'm not sure you understand the concept of flat armor penetration. Flat pen does nothing to tanks because its a set number. 20 armor pen vs a 100 armor garen will render the garen at 80 armor. ADCs that built youmoos/black cleaver were specifically getting it to destroy squishy ADCs. It was actually very frustrating to deal with because most ADCs armor scale horrifically

Jonathan Comets1 votes

i may have worded it wrong, i get how its used. flat armor pen cannot make the players armor fall below zero. the builds you see with ghostblade and black cleaver started because it boosted early game stats. Like adc's may have had 35-40 armor at most start of the game and no items for them to build additional and their scaling sucked as you said. so you build a dirk and it takes the 10 armor they did have off. It does however effect tanks too. They usually have more and stack more thats why they made these itemsitem 3036 item 3033 which do percent armor pen for tanks. Flat pen is for early game to get rid of the runes you stack on tanks anything built after is handled with the percent armor pen items. After that stack atck speed crit lifesteal in whatever order works. I usually do the item 3036 item 3033 mid late game once the tanks get all beefed up with at least 80 armor from items

Big Lincoln1 votes

all pen should be removed

Jonathan Comets1 votes

I don't agree, tanks should be able to soak up high amounts of damage not be invincible.

Big Lincoln1 votes

imo it's the same problem grievous wounds has

If pen was removed tanks would be easier to balance

ZenithEevee1 votes

do...

Do you even know about how lethality is basically teh same as Flat Armor pen, Except it isnt all exactly flat, and scales with level?

Jonathan Comets1 votes

right it scales with level but that means i have to use it in my runes. some champs use ad runes and attack speed only. Where else am i going to get leathality from? other than itemization, which is taken away with update. Sure you have item 3036 but this is bonus pen (lethality) which still means i have to have flat lethality runes for it to be any good because no champ has base armor pen stats.

Ralanr1 votes

Masteries that were armor pen will become lethality.

Jonathan Comets1 votes

yeah i understand that, every adc will have to build their rune pages like that just to have lethality though. that takes care of the tanks but wheres the does jhin or jinx, kog, fit in when they sometimes.... can't get away from the high CC tanks and assassin comps you will be seeing after the patch with the lack of items for adc. I just think it sucks that i have to sticks to champs that have built in escapes when i'd rather play who i want and itemize to be effective.

Ralanr2 votes

QSS.

Why are you so dead set on armor pen builds? Crit builds actually do more damage late. The current armor pen builds are midgame and lethality will be geared towards late.

Jonathan Comets1 votes

i usually mix the build not just crit, i get enough to punch through armor then crit, survivability the rest of the way. what i didn't understand was riot said poachers knife would turn into serrated dirk after stealing three camps from the enemy jg and then you could build it into the new items... for assassins. However i believe you can build serrated dirk without poaching anything which confused me since they never actually stated otherwise. this was my last build though item 3147item 3094 item 3031 item 3139 item 3006 item 3036

Ralanr2 votes

You can. I think the poaching item is to help benefit counter junglers more.

Jonathan Comets1 votes

Even then the items were changed and suited for the assassins and although could be somewhat useful they dont compliment adcs. Such as active speed vs out of combat speed for assassins. It may not be a as bad as i think but i feel like the item take away and they update at oncs is going to hurt adcs in a pretty bad way.

Ralanr1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jonathan Comets,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7s6IEVlE,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-24T20:16:44.284+0000)

Even then the items were changed and suited for the assassins and although could be somewhat useful they don't compliment adcs. Such as active speed vs out of combat speed for assassins

That was the point of the assassin item update.

Jonathan Comets1 votes

Yes and my point you can tell from the title of the post. Is adcs need new items. Im maiking that relevant now is because they lost at least three fully built items they could use. On of which complimented everything about them

Ralanr1 votes

... Shiv, hurricane, ER, cannon, PD, IE.

Basically every god damn crit item.

Jonathan Comets1 votes

I said "their own" i meant new mb. Crits great but you cant punch through armor with that on a front line heavy tank

Ralanr1 votes

Grabbing lord doms is all you really need. Plus you're not really meant to punch through the tank so much as you're supposed to whittle them down.

Crit is the ADC stat. Not armor pen.

Borror1 votes

I might be going crazy but I'm pretty sure you have it reversed, tanks counter flat armor penetration on items like maw and ghost blade. Flat armor penetration should be strong against squishes like mages and adcs, which is why assassins are supposed to build it and is part of why tanks are supposed to beat assassins. Flat armor penatration should not at all be built to fight tanks. If adcs need with tanks, the movement speed that all zeal items have, black cleaver ( which is NOT an adc item) with % armor penetration (which Should be good against tanks) and flat movement to help kite, Frozen Mallet/iceborn gauntlet with slowing aa if your really mean to help kite, life steal from blood thirster and deaths dance can easily make the damage from tanks useless, %hp and stealing ms with Bork is great against tanks (although the item is kinda weak right now), merc that allows you to ignore the tanks cc, and even trinity force with flat movement speed helps kiting tanks. In fact, the only item that adcs build that doesn't help deal with tanks is infinity edge and even then, dealing more crit damage = more life steal to make tanks useless. There is also going to be a new support item that lets them take damage for you to make you even harder to kill. So no, adcs do not need more items to deal with tanks. As for assassins, build a GA and just trust your team to help deal with them. Assasins are supposed to counter adcs so there shouldn't be to much you can do except stay near your peel so they can do their jobs. Sorry if I ranted

FulleroDendrimer1 votes

Need ad version of zhonya. cuz adc pretty much cant do anything when zed ults them every single time

Jonathan Comets1 votes

That may lock down adcs more though if they have to freeze like that. Maybe give qss its ability to block his ult but with a longer cd so he has some chance of killing you when its off cd

Requiemsfire1 votes

Only ADC there I'm concerned about is Lucian because he was nerfed to balance around having that armour pen build recieving some pretty hard nerfs. He currently has a below 50% win rate and the nerfs to armour pen could potentially drive him down even further.

Jonathan Comets1 votes

CALLED IT, aside from twitch pretty solid post. AM I WRONG NOW ?? ADC 2017 pfft

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