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What I dislike about the "assassin rework"

Serika Zero··2 votes·647 views

Yes, I do understand its not final, but someone has to say some of the wrong parts in it.

First of all. Mr-AD items. During this assassin rework, another MR-AD item is introduced in the game. Meanwhile, the only Armor-AP item is Zhonias. This forces Zhonias into a must buy always kind of deal. While AD champions get more and more options. New AD assassin item. Which is also related to the above point as it gives MR AND BLOCKS 1 SPELL. Making us have 2 AD assassins designated items, while APs have just DeathFire Grasp (deleted back in 2015 or 2014). A total bias towards AD assassins. HOWEVER, the Abysal Scepter got changed to be more useful for assassins increasing your dmg by 10% when in range, this would make a 3000 burst be 3300 burst. Which is half of what DFG used to offer, but it has been reworked into an AP assassin item. So, better than nothing.

Talon's new E skill. Has no cost, no cooldown, it just can't be used on the same target for a while. Do you know who has something similar? Yasuo and his E skill, where he can dash though minions with no cooldown and no cost. This is a very very bad decision, linking mobility (a very good one) to 0 cooldowns.

That's all I have for now. I won't comment on other changes as I don't have must experience in roles that are not mid or top.

6 Comments

Talinis4 votes

Did you know, against squishies if you had void staff and sorc boots and some pen from masteries/runes, abyssal did much more damage currently on live than it's current version on PBE? And if you rushed the item with sorcerers, you were doing true damage to ADCS as their MR was zero or below?? The item is plain nerfed. The aura increased damage by at least 15% or more after mitigation. There is almost no reason to take it with current numbers. Rather get something like Rod of Ages , liandyrs or protobelt.

Also, AP's get much less utility options in items than ADS because mages are built from range and have most of the tools already in their kit, only a small portion are melee and they go tank or you have problems like tank fizz/ekko unless their AP forms are overpowered since no item support for a balanced build. All AP items add is more kill power, which is funny because that's exactly the reason why riot said they are changing AD items, so they get more utility.

A large amount of ADS are melee so they get items like triforce, steraks, maw, scimitar, phantom dancer, deaths dance, ghostblade, duskblade, now edge of night, empowered autos, lifesteal etc etc to give them extra utility, survivability and things outside of their kit. AP get a nerfed zhonyas, protobelt, more damage in the form of lich bane proc and rylai's to kite people which assassins don't even use. Both classes get maxed out CDR so it's a moot point. AP itemization is BAD for AP melee assassins and they are going to continually go tank builds until Riot actually adds in proper itemization to support being in melee.

Serika Zero1 votes

blablabla true dmg to adcs. nobody in their right mind would rush boots on an APC, be it assassin or not. Including Katarina. Boots: give you no combat stats in most cases (the cost of 1200g for 15 penetration is absurd when the enemy can counter all that with 450g magic mantle). Not to mention on most AP champions you would be running out mana insanely fast by rushing boots (any ap champion that uses mana), or you would be pushed into your turret 24/7 which means no roams which means no assassination.

Melee Assassins don't build Sterak's or Phantom Dancer or Deaths Dance. Those are when they want to be fighters, not assassins. Very few of them get Trinity Force when playing assassin anyway. Iirc the only one that saw trinity used for a while was Rengar. That's because TF is a dps item, even tho it improves your initial burst a bit, its just a bit.

Meanwhile, AP assassins have to stick to the same things as Mages. Yet that's not a problem. But when AD assassins use ADC items, riot and fanboys lose their minds

Talinis1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7gygAVQ0,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-10-19T12:12:12.806+0000)

blablabla true dmg to adcs. nobody in their right mind would rush boots on an APC, be it assassin or not. Including Katarina. Boots: give you no combat stats in most cases (the cost of 1200g for 15 penetration is absurd when the enemy can counter all that with 450g magic mantle). Not to mention on most AP champions you would be running out mana insanely fast by rushing boots (any ap champion that uses mana), or you would be pushed into your turret 24/7 which means no roams which means no assassination.

Melee Assassins don't build Sterak's or Phantom Dancer or Deaths Dance. Those are when they want to be fighters, not assassins. Very few of them get Trinity Force when playing assassin anyway. Iirc the only one that saw trinity used for a while was Rengar. That's because TF is a dps item, even tho it improves your initial burst a bit, its just a bit.

Meanwhile, AP assassins have to stick to the same things as Mages. Yet that's not a problem. But when AD assassins use ADC items, riot and fanboys lose their minds

Actually it is a problem because the APC items do not convey benefits to assassins besides more killing power. THE SAME EXACT THING that riot claims why they are changing AD items (more utility not just killing power) for AD champions is 100% valid for APCS because AP items give zero utility outside zhonyas. Don't make me laugh any harder at your ignorance.

Serika Zero1 votes

same here, adc items, barring BT provide nothing more than damage........... oh and looks like rito is changing something making ad assassin items, i wonder why fucking ap-ad bias

and the only reason zhonias is so hyped and overused as an excuse why ap champions should suck was addressed in my initial post. ITS THE ONLY AP-ARMOR ITEM IN THE FUCKING GAME. You want zhonias to stop being a god tier item? GIVE OPTIONS FOR US TO IGNORE THAT THING AND BUILD SOMETHING ELSE ADs has Scimtar and Maw for over a year >.> now they got one more, coz fuck the apc

Elite4Runner2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7gygAVQ0,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-10-19T09:33:13.479+0000)

Yes, I do understand its not final, but someone has to say some of the wrong parts in it.

First of all. Mr-AD items. During this assassin rework, another MR-AD item is introduced in the game. Meanwhile, the only Armor-AP item is Zhonias. This forces Zhonias into a must buy always kind of deal. While AD champions get more and more options.

Agreed

New AD assassin item. Which is also related to the above point as it gives MR AND BLOCKS 1 SPELL. Making us have 2 AD assassins designated items, while APs have just DeathFire Grasp (deleted back in 2015 or 2014). A total bias towards AD assassins. HOWEVER, the Abysal Scepter got changed to be more useful for assassins increasing your dmg by 10% when in range, this would make a 3000 burst be 3300 burst. Which is half of what DFG used to offer, but it has been reworked into an AP assassin item. So, better than nothing.

Don't forget about Luden's Echo. It was intended as the "replacement" for DFG. It does work fairly well on AP assassins because it offers movement speed and burst damage, however I agree that it is not quite as powerful as something like Duskblade. The other thing that I would point out is that AP items often provide a lot of utility in general, and they tend to focus around CDR, flat mana and mana regeneration. AP mages more often rely on their abilities for utility instead of their items.

Talon's new E skill. Has no cost, no cooldown, it just can't be used on the same target for a while. Do you know who has something similar? Yasuo and his E skill, where he can dash though minions with no cooldown and no cost. This is a very very bad decision, linking mobility (a very good one) to 0 cooldowns.

While I don't dislike this change, I don't completely disagree with you. It does seem a little odd that it has no cost and no cooldown, but I think the terrain cooldown is actually the better way they could have gone about it. If the terrain had a cooldown and his ability had a cooldown it would feel pretty bad. The terrain cooldown seems pretty lengthy currently as it is, but I would bet they will adjust it, either before he is released, or afterward. It also feels pretty uncontrollable, or at least the method of control has not yet been hammered out. There are times where you will want to hop a certain way over the wall but it will take you a different way. This can cause a pretty big problem for him. Also, his ability to readily leap over walls will probably cause him to jump into fog of war more often than he really should, and once over, he can not immediately go back.

Serika Zero1 votes

the thing is, Talon could jump over there entire jungle part of the map in mere seconds. The only one that can come close to that are: Ryze on a largish cooldown, TF on a large cooldown, Ahri on a large cooldown, Sol on a large cooldown, Rek'sai with pre-existent set tunnels and LeBlank kind off. Even Taliyah and she has like 2 minutes cooldown.

That amount of mobility on demand is disgusting. But its ok if it had an appropriate cost. Ahri loses her all-in potential if she uses ult for just moving around. TF loses his engage/catch while using his, Ryze and Sol are like TF and Rek'sai needs it preplaned. The way he jumps over walls right now is still being "experimented on" by players to learn how to do it properly, but he can still cover a huge amount of land mass very quickly. The amount of nerfs Taliah started to get once people started using her more for roaming was pretty huge deal. And sadly, that was with 2 mins cooldown.

Yes, Ekko was supposed to be an "ap assassin item". The very very sad part is that... item 3089 is better than item 3285 when you land 3 or 4 abilities on the enemy :(

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