COUNTERING A COUNTER JUNGLER?

Triscuts·Sep 27, 2016·1 votes·1,439 views

I had a really hard time in my last game while playing jungle. Maybe she isn't a META pick or anything, but I am very comfortable playing her in the jungle.

What had happen' was: even though we won, my first 5 levels were ridiculous. I went krugs, then raptors but at the raptors camp, with his vape pen, met me full health and full mana, took my life and my camps. ok I figured quick invade done. I move on to my blue side, take my wolves, go for my blue buff, take it, and he shows up at my gromp, same result. Almost tilted me, and I had to apologize to my team a lot. Thankfully once I got my six, I was able to be effective, but short of maybe taking too much damage during my camp clears I don't know what I could have done. Burn my Flash for raptors? perhaps chugged my pot earlier? maybe started at the blue first against graves?

Either way, my team did not flame me, or abuse me for "feeding," we all moved on and played well until we reached mid to late game and made up for any early mistakes and I praise them, but in the ranked environment, where we were down but not out our started throwing up surrenders. when we finally asked why and kept voting her down she just said she was bored with this game... this has no reference to the title, but thought this was crazy and thought you might like to know. Why even play?

26 Comments

agbudarSep 27, 20162 votes

Trundle tryit loveit profit runepage i use is 4.5% lifesteal (quints) 15% attack speed (marks) 9 armor (seals) mr scaling runes (glyphs) go with either fervor or warlords bloodlust. me personally i go with bloodlust. gotta make sure you clear fast don't try to be tanky until mid game your base stats should cover that.

builds should be either item 1400 item 3025 item 3009 item 3065 / item 3153 in that order for heavy ganking or item 1416 / item 3742 in that order for objective controll.

oooor item 1401 item 3748 item 3153 item 3047 item 3065 if you wna be more tanky.

TriscutsSep 27, 20161 votes

this is can appreciate, I think ill give this a shot. out tank a counter jungler

agbudarSep 28, 20161 votes

btw since you like to play seji always start item 1039 it gives very good early game sustain. here is a succesfull rune page (for me at least) I use for her.

armor marks + seals flat ap glyph's +Quints. strength of the ages keystone. the big problem is that with this you dont have any magic resist its purely catered towards clearing fast so you can't get countered and ganking bot and top if the enemy is ad. if mid gives away a free kill by being totally overextended sure but usually i steer clear from mid for a bit till i get my item 3111

however in general if you go against Evelynn LeeSin Nidalee Kindred Graves Trundle is simply a better choice. he is an early game champion were seji is a mid to late game champion.

Urf Mode Is LifeSep 27, 20162 votes

Shaco hooo hooo haaa haaa.... learn to place boxes to give vision... keep a pink down ALWAYS in your side, ask your allies to put pinks down ( this is season 6, everyone should have 1 pink on the map always, period its only 2 minions worth of gold )

I love when people try to counter jungle me on my main :-) ez kills all day

afk soon btwSep 27, 20162 votes

Shaco and play a garbage Champion hoooo hooo haaa haaa

The DeckownerSep 27, 20162 votes

PUT A PINK IN YOUR JUNGLE

when you see them in your jungle, go farm the opposite side of the enemy's jungle.

TriscutsSep 27, 20161 votes

ok, so take my first machete, one pot and a pink. when starting red should I place this ward in the tri, in front of red or at the bush mid closer to dragon? When I play mid I always ward that bush for myself and my jungler, sometimes ill even ward red or blue as a mid to help out my jungler. My mid did not do this for me on this game, but if I am jungler, sacrifice my sustain by only taking one potion to place that pink what do you think would be the best position? When I start I wait till 1:25 at the tri bush to make sure I don't have a early invade by the way

The DeckownerSep 27, 20162 votes

ward the bush at the back of red pit, and your bot lane should ward tribush.

TriscutsSep 27, 20161 votes

Thanks, I will be sure to do that, trinket fine or should a sacrifice extra pots for the pink?

The DeckownerSep 27, 20161 votes

It depends on your champion and your plan, if you have built in sustain then you really don't need 2 pots, if you plan on doing full clear then you will need the pot for sustain, if you want to just recall after 3 camps you will be fine with 1 pot.

I usually go refillable pot anyways.

DryditchSep 27, 20161 votes

Wait... you take Machete on Sej?

The best way to deal with an invade from a full health enemy jungle is to just say "fuck it" and nope out. You should have your Q at lv 2 on sej, and can easily clear a wall and just safely walk back to tower or continue into the other side of your jg, drop a ward near the buff, and then back with what gold you have to pick up what you can.

TriscutsSep 27, 20161 votes

item 1039 Brain fart, sorry I do start Talisman. and three pots. sometimes I go refillable potion instead and upgrade it on my first back to item 2032 . not sure why I didn't this time. my route is krugs, raptors, red or skuttle based on my health at that point. I also go level one w, level two e level three q. have I been doing that sequence all wrong, or should it be q level two if I think its an invade jungler? obviously jungle not my primary role, but I do enjoy taking a tank in there when I have to.

and yes I do smite krugs first, and usually take raptors next so my smite can reset and then I get the health from red with the reset smite.

DryditchSep 27, 20162 votes

I've run the E second route, but it results in more damage because you're not getting an auto-attack interrupt on the jungle camps like you do with your Q.

It's also a very good way to CC the enemy jungle and let them take camp aggro if they autoed the camp or hit them in any way. Early levels, Raptors and or Red do massive damage to whoever they're targeting, which can give you a huge advantage.

Either way, Sej is weak to invaders, but she can do decently to set them low if it's possible for one of your laners to swing by and do some damage over a wall or something to pick up the kill, or she can just charge that boar straight over a wall to safety.

TriscutsSep 27, 20161 votes

You have a point here. Raptors do a bunch of damage, and I believe that is what contributed to my death. I will try a few runs with that interrupt and then w as they both do AOE damage anyways. kite it out a little further it could mitigate some of the damage better.

DryditchSep 27, 20161 votes

A lot of people call me out cause I'm Bronze, but I'm glad you're an openminded individual.

Definitely start W, but pick up your Q second instead of your E. W clears krugs faster.

TriscutsSep 27, 20161 votes

hey, Im silver myself, but jungle is really like my third role, just tired of playing support. I will take all the help I can get

Mysticman89Sep 27, 20162 votes

If you're brave, I've seen junglers who expect to be counter jungled just go live in the other persons jungle themselves. It's ballsy (and I don't really jungle myself), but if you 'know' the enemy jungler is gonna come murder you at your red, just go take their red instead. Ideally a member of your team will ward the relevant buff early on so you can know you managed to cheat death and get a 'fair' trade. (It's understandably scary though if you were wrong about them invading and/or if the enemy laners are good about collapsing on you, so naturally it can go horribly wrong.)

The kind of junglers trying to murder you in your own jg are also the ones that probably don't scale so well, so if you can keep even one way or another, it's probably to your advantage.

TriscutsSep 27, 20161 votes

yeah, I did everything in my meditative power to not to go on tilt because I knew that once I got to mid game with my ult, cinder hulk and I think I started randuins he could not do the damage to me that he needed to anymore. I honestly believe even though I had a rough game I helped the team more in the end game by being the tank they needed to pick people off, and use the ult for the proper engages and disengages. don't get me wrong he still did a crap load of damage, but I was willing to eat the thresh hooks for my adc and mid lane akali while soaking up cool down timers for the team to follow up.

its just frustrating when you give up two deaths before you've had a chance to even get a good clear in.

AptestSep 27, 20162 votes

the best thing out of all the possibilities, is to have an attentive mid lane and an attentive support, and have them rotate on the invader and kill him.

those hyper aggro early invaders tilt easily, when they are punished harshly.

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 27, 20162 votes

to do this he has to take some risk or take the time to ward your jungle in which case he is wasting time if he doesn't get a good catch. All you have to do is survive and keep farming.

This item will help you item 2032

Ward your own jungle and ping when he is invading, meanwhile you either join your team ,because they are so attentive, in killing him or you just go do something else or counterinvade even

Just remember that when invading he cannot afford to come back empty hand, if both you and graves lose out on farm I garen-tee (hue) you he will be a lot less usless than sejuani would be while behind

graves with items deals damage... graves with no items deals not so much damage

seju with items deals damage and stuns stuff... seju with no items, just stuns stuff and does it some more

TriscutsSep 27, 20161 votes

I hear you, I knew my scaling would be better later. just with that level two invade though, just trying to figure out if I needed to die or not. I know the answer to that is always no, but to really burn flash so early? Guy waited for me to be about half health, or maybe he was just lucky, taking out those raptors and hopped on me. also I don't take my q till three, so it would have been my flash.

also just seemed like I was the only one warding early, so that could have been an indicator. When I'm support I always tell my team when bot takes longer to get there, I just figure they helped leash. I don't think I got any early wards or indicators.

and no this isn't a MY TEAM DOE moment, I could have pinged the Akali sooner, or maybe not warded dragon bush and warded some where else to not be there, but man that level two sucked.

I used my stuns to the fullest though, graves became a pain early game but was almost irrelevant late game, me as sedj, not so much haha.

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 27, 20162 votes

the tactic graves used was for earlygame junglers like lee sin. For or against

if it fails he will burn out.

Even at your level of skill, whatever that may be, where you are still asking yourself what to do here that is more than enough to get by simply by having the knowledge to back off and look for some other way to profit. When pro players run into this you'll notice that they have this sortof fallback pattern though. They don't even stop to think, its just preplanned. When I'm invaded and their forces are too overwhelming I do what the Korean teams did against the Chinese ones, they crossed the map and just counter invaded after warding and getting ready for a fight in case they try to counter the counter.

If I'm caught at wraiths I smite and go counterward or just let them have it and keep farming. They are at a bigger disadvantage the longer they stay in my jungle.

If they are in my bot jungle they can only gank mid or bot in a timely manner without taking turret agro and they sure as hell can't stop me from ganking or camping top. But I can also guess where they will probably gank assuming they don't go dragon which I can see to.

There's a lot of stuff you can do, you don't have to have the right answer or the pro answer, just having a plan ready ahead of time is enough. I'm not a great jungler but even I can bullshit and math my way around something like that and so can you apparently.

TL;DR

What he is doing is a bad idea, just stick to the basics and win if you have any obvious advantage later on.

TriscutsSep 27, 20161 votes

Wow, this is a really helpful answer. I am primarily mid, and I got tired of support secondary role so switch between support and jungle as my secondary roles. Realistically I had yet to be pinned down this hard before and from what I've learned from all the board responses I've gotten I have learned a lot.

First thing I learned was Don't die level two Second was sedjuani can be invaded early, but I can mitigate more damage by taking my q second plus have an early escape. Ward behind Red Buff If Mid not helping peace out and try again. Sedjuani even without items still contributes in the late game, kinda like a malphite with more cc. ( I knew this one already which is why I use her) Learn more routes in different situations.

Seriously, I am only a silver player, and I try hard every game. I have tried several junglers and several routes. Pantheon MasterYi Udyr Shyvana and sedj is the one I'm most comfortable with even though she may not be a carry jungler I have supported some of my teams to some good victories. I still have a lot to learn, only being silver, but this one really helped me a lot as I was able to still make an impact in the game. Thanks and I will look into alternate routes I can take in these scenarios. I have done the power clear, krugs buff to buff, but maybe i'm just to paranoid about my health. and I have felt more comfortable with the full clear. so I suppose the graves just caught me being comfortable.

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 27, 20161 votes

I'm not the best jungler but as sej I just clear both buffs and just go heal on scuttle lol. Or I just go heal or whatever. Probably shouldn't but it works out. I do the same on shyv but I have no regrets doing that on shyv. I gank or invade after that all game long.

Maximum MordeSep 27, 20161 votes

Farm their laners instead of the jungle then watch the enemy team go to tilt level over 9000. It's basically the jungle version of lose lane win game.

TriscutsSep 27, 20161 votes

Graves was so tilted after the game seeing that he lost, calling his team trash, but I would like to believe it was because I was taking at the right times. Yes Akali picked when she needed to, Xin Xao did his job as well, but being the take who soaked up damage, he hated that we made it to three and four items