Aurelion sol nerfs

duje·Nov 15, 2018·15 votes·11,189 views

So last patch aurelion got hit with huge base health reduction and they changed a key rune on him, time warp tonic now the MS you get last super short the potion gives less mana and hp back and aurelion has sustain issues early which got much worse now. And on pbe celerity is getting changed which is another r key rune on him. Why punish the champ that gets 1v1 by anyone with any kind of instant mobility which you cant do nothing against. I think the nerfs to him are way to much.

59 Comments

Noor SakataNov 15, 201815 votes

Sol was dominated in high elo so they decided to nerf him , people complained about sol a lot in there No jokes , Ryze was at 45% winrate earlier this season but challengers still wanted him to be gutted because his one tricks dominated

dujeNov 15, 20189 votes

You can't balance the game for only the 0.01% of the player base.

DM For Rat FactsNov 15, 20186 votes

Top-down balance design.

The game is played fundamentally differently in different elos. Balancing around the top is way healthier than balancing around the bottom.

dujeNov 15, 20182 votes

Agree with that and it's true, but stupid in some cases like ryze(poor desing) and aso(never played in pro) l. Why is TF never touched apdo has like 60% wr on him in the top of the top ranks.

Doge2020Nov 15, 20181 votes

Probably because he isn’t strong enough in challenger to get nerfed there. If a lot of people dominate with TF in challenger then I think yeah he should get nerfed. But if like >2% of the challenger players play him and only a few do very well then I think it looks obvious that a nerf is unhealthy and unnecessary.

dujeNov 15, 20182 votes

Most asol players in high elo are one tricks or spent a lot of time on asol and that should be rewarded and nor get nurfed. If a champion is very good if you spend a lot of time on him that is just good design , yes maybe he should get nurfed a bit sure, but not this hard and stack even more nurfs on top of it.

Z3SleeperNov 15, 20182 votes

I personally think TF does need to be addressed. But that's another story.

ASol mains are dominant in high elo and that's no exaggeration. The champ is insanely strong at creating absolute terror on the map whenever he's not visible. I'd say more so than a Shaco jungle.

We should most definitely be balancing for high level play but still addressing champions who are too strong in lower elos. We should also not be addressing champions who are too weak in lower elos (ryze, azir, etc.).

However, I do think the triple dipping here on direct and indirect nerfs is too much. I think the nerf should just be reverted at this point cuz the tonic nerf was already worth more than the health nerf (refill/cp +25% was 31.25 more health per charge). Adding a celerity nerf on top of it is overkill for the champion.

KaishaNov 16, 20181 votes

Its not balanced around either, and never has been.

Honestly, they balance around which champ will bring in the most cash, and just rotate in the FOTM that will get the most sales.

AhrisNov 15, 20185 votes

{quoted}

You can't balance the game for only the 0.01% of the player base.

So balance the game for trash players who has no clue how to even play the game?

dujeNov 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

So balance the game for trash players who has no clue how to even play the game?

Not what i said ugh

AhrisNov 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Not what i said ugh

So balance the game for the majority right?

dujeNov 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So balance the game for the majority right?

Balance the game with the other 99% of your player base in mind, go off of the high elo problems but keep in mind that what like 45% of your playerbase is silver 30% gold and 10 bronze. Lets take ryze as an example in high elo and pro play he is very good and in anything below master he is like 45% win rate for ages already you dont buff and nerf him you need o rework him. Just because something is good in high elo it doesnt mean its good for the game, ryze has a horrible design. If you balance a game towards only the top 0.1% the game is gonna be shit for the rest of your player base and you will soon run out of business.

AhrisNov 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Balance the game with the other 99% of your player base in mind, go off of the high elo problems but keep in mind that what like 45% of your playerbase is silver 30% gold and 10 bronze. Lets take ryze as an example in high elo and pro play he is very good and in anything below master he is like 45% win rate for ages already you dont buff and nerf him you need o rework him. Just because something is good in high elo it doesnt mean its good for the game, ryze has a horrible design. If you balance a game towards only the top 0.1% the game is gonna be shit for the rest of your player base and you will soon run out of business.

But is it fair for a champ to ONLY be good in majority but completely garbage for the 1%, but see nerfs to their kit?

Both are not fair by your argument. But, if a champ is bad for the 1%, then there is perhaps a counterplay to learn instead of whining why some champs are annoying?

I noticed that most people DO NOT USE THE COUNTERPLAY AVAILABLE. They literally play and continue to make the same mistakes and not fix them. An example of this is Ahri. Ahri has one of if not the MOST counterplay in game, and in highelo she is nearly nonexistence.

Why? That is because she has clear counterplays to her kit that is easily abuseable. However, you have majority of the playerbase crying instead of trying to learn.

Ahri WAS nerfed because of the majority. Like you said, the trash majority players.

Is it fair? I find it ridiculous.

Sexy Jack RabbitNov 16, 20181 votes

Balance the game with the other 99% of your player base in mind, go off of the high elo problems but keep in mind that what like 45% of your playerbase is silver 30% gold and 10% bronze

This is a pretty intrinsically flawed statement when talking about Aurelion.
Take in mind A.sol is played in only 0.97% of games. Taking in mind only 10% of that 0.97% are going to have mastered him, yet his average Winrate was sitting around 54%. As a result you had mains nabbing STUPID high win-rates on him.

It's not even about the top 0.1%, it's about the people who understand the champion absolutely dominating with him.

dujeNov 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sexy Jack Rabbit,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=72M0j1IB,comment-id=0001000000020000000000000001,timestamp=2018-11-16T10:19:16.614+0000)

This is a pretty intrinsically flawed statement when talking about Aurelion.
Take in mind A.sol is played in only 0.97% of games. Taking in mind only 10% of that 0.97% are going to have mastered him, yet his average Winrate was sitting around 54%. As a result you had mains nabbing STUPID high win-rates on him.

It's not even about the top 0.1%, it's about the people who understand the champion absolutely dominating with him.

We were not talking about asol there. And again nurfs are okay,3 hard nurfs not okay.

NumberOneBallerNov 16, 20188 votes

{quoted}

You can't balance the game for only the 0.01% of the player base.

Sol is broken in the hands of anyone who knows how to play him. Completely cancer champion with unmatched roam.

KaìjuNov 16, 20181 votes

Silver Sol checking in, it is true. If I don't lane against a Zed or LB smurf I just roam or stomp my lane.

BestPudgeNANov 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You can't balance the game for only the 0.01% of the player base.

.01% of the player base? That the amount of people that play that boring ass champ?

AseraanNov 16, 20181 votes

Sure they can......i mean you should not balance things around where ppl cant use them.

LeftyRaydyNov 16, 20181 votes

Sol is a very big issue early with the way he can push and auto you under tower when done perfectly it is so oppressive. then he can just push and roam and it is god awful to go against. I respect the A Sol players because it does take a lot of skill to play him, and they should have nerfed him differently.

As for Ryze he is still SO strong especially against my OTP Ekko. when played right he is unstoppable and until they Really rework this champ where he cant just keep chaining abilities and snares he will always be a problem. They keep "reworking" him but his core concepts are still there they need to do a Sion/Urgot Rework to him.

iiGazeiiNov 15, 201810 votes

Star rotation speed now scales with attack speed
Stars now apply on-hit effects.

There. Turn ASol into an ADC, lol.

loli fidlerNov 15, 20185 votes

this is an interesting idea that sounds like it could work but youd also have to change the scaling damage on the stars from ap to ad

iiGazeiiNov 15, 20186 votes

Or just have it scale with both. Make him a hybrid champ like Kai'Sa or Ezreal.

dujeNov 15, 20182 votes

I would quit the game if they did that ahahah

iiGazeiiNov 15, 20189 votes

Just imagine it. Guinsoo's + Nashor's Tooth becomes the standard build. His W becomes a whirling disc of death that shreds everything around him.

loli fidlerNov 15, 20183 votes

oh my yes

Chembaron YamadaNov 16, 20182 votes

Tbh, I think this idea would just have 2 possible outcomes.

The AS scaling on the star rotation is so insanely low that you don't notice it and therefore the whole change is worthless.
The AS scaling is noticable and this makes the whole thing so insanely broken that it will need a hot fix just half an hour after this change was implemented.

AseraanNov 16, 20181 votes

I like it. That would be honestly awesome......

NeameanNov 16, 20181 votes

item 3091 core item

Stars ShaperNov 15, 20186 votes

Because ppl who main such a rare character get to dominate with him.

Meanwhile other more popular and with similar winrate champions are left untouched, same with champions' whose kit is constantly screwing up an entire category of items.

couhg! Ezreal and mana+onhit... cough!

HotarµNov 15, 20185 votes

He's rare because he's just so awkward and unusual to play. It's not like Yorick or Skarner where other champions can do their roles or offer more.

Unfortunately the top 0.01% of players ruined the champion for the rest of us. I understand the need for balancing in Diamond + but it just sucks to not be able to play to his full potential. 99 percent of the playerbase does not and will not ever have the mechanical skill to play him fluidly (myself included) and you're usually just better off picking any other mage when it comes to Aurelion Sol.

I really love his lore and artistic design, but gameplay wise he feels so clunky and it just puts me off. I never feel like I can move as fluidly with him as I can on someone like Zed, Yasuo, or Pyke. Sorry for the rant, I really just love ASOL and want to be able to play him without dedicating my entire League time to him :/

Stars ShaperNov 16, 20181 votes

I see and I understand. Fortunately for me I am one of the few that can play him fluidly (surely not as well as top tier players, I’m most likely a gold/plat in terms of skill level) and once you get a grip on him you can see how powerful he can be.

What makes me salty af though is that countering him is as easily seen and more easily done. Any champion whose strength is teamfight is going to be highly performing in higher tiers but I don’t see the nerfing picks that have been world defining like Alistar (who is also more deadly at lower levels) or freaking Ryze.

dujeNov 15, 20185 votes

I mean asol hass soooooooooo many terrible matchups its sad, and one tricks dominating with him means good desing a very hard chamipon to learn and execute right but when you put the time and effort in it pays off. His winrate is only good cause of onetricks and low pick stats. Never picked in pro play basicly just ughh why take 50 base hp from a guy that loses so hard vs champs like ire, yas, talon, ekko, diana......

Handy Sandy Nov 15, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I mean asol hass soooooooooo many terrible matchups its sad, and one tricks dominating with him means good desing a very hard chamipon to learn and execute right but when you put the time and effort in it pays off. His winrate is only good cause of onetricks and low pick stats.

Aurelion sol's "bad" matchups are only bad for people who don't know how to play him. Someone who has a decent amount of games won't be in the lane half the time.

Why punish the champ that gets 1v1 by anyone with any kind of instant mobility which you cant do nothing against

He doesn't win by 1v1ing, he wins by getting his other lanes ahead by roaming so I think it's fair that he isn't good in a straight up fight.

If you make him playable for the majority of players, he'll just be OP.

dujeNov 16, 20181 votes

Yes you try to dodge the lane but as soon as you get to your lane to clear it if irelia gets on you your dead instantly. Point is there is a lot of counter play options vs him and the triple hard nurf to him is wayyyyyy too much. Should he be nurfed, yes. This hard, no. Never said make him playable for evreyone i think his learning curve and potential hight is designed amazingly. I strongly think that people who one trick him or main him should be at atleast 55% winrate(dia and above)

JeaneGreeneNov 16, 20181 votes

Irelia might kill you....

But your top laner got a kill and just took tower with you.

Or bot got a double kill and dragon.

Handy Sandy Nov 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yes you try to dodge the lane but as soon as you get to your lane to clear it if irelia gets on you your dead instantly. Point is there is a lot of counter play options vs him and the triple hard nurf to him is wayyyyyy too much. Should he be nurfed, yes. This hard, no. Never said make him playable for evreyone i think his learning curve and potential hight is designed amazingly. I strongly think that people who one trick him or main him should be at atleast 55% winrate(dia and above)

Asol is balanced around onetricks, and onetricks aren't struggling against those matchups because their winrate is too high considering what champions are strong right now.

If you make those matchups better, then the majority of asol players will be ok. Onetricks are just gonna dominate then. He isn't a champion that can be balanced around the lower elos.

TranscendentSolNov 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Aurelion sol's "bad" matchups are only bad for people who don't know how to play him. Someone who has a decent amount of games won't be in the lane half the time.

He doesn't win by 1v1ing, he wins by getting his other lanes ahead by roaming so I think it's fair that he isn't good in a straight up fight.

If you make him playable for the majority of players, he'll just be OP.

Actually, not to question playstyles, but for my playstyle, I 1v1 a lot (It pays off). With the current Patch, Roaming is going to become harder due to Players pushing for extra Gold off of towers. I do agree that he is being nerfed a bit too much, he was meant to be a roamer but now the current patch notes make it even harder to roam, please note that Talon roams faster than Sol (Unless you get 2+ Levels on E) and pushes faster than Sol (with Tiamat and Rake (W)). I believe that due to the current Changes in League, 1v1 champs are going to Thrive, while Roam champs are going to die out (Or be very very weak), if you compare Talon to Sol, Talon is better in all Aspects, He can Roam faster, Clear faster (not early though), do more damage (Unless you're building full burst Sol like I do), Sol is weak compared to other champs.

Handy Sandy Nov 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Actually, not to question playstyles, but for my playstyle, I 1v1 a lot (It pays off). With the current Patch, Roaming is going to become harder due to Players pushing for extra Gold off of towers. I do agree that he is being nerfed a bit too much, he was meant to be a roamer but now the current patch notes make it even harder to roam, please note that Talon roams faster than Sol (Unless you get 2+ Levels on E) and pushes faster than Sol (with Tiamat and Rake (W)). I believe that due to the current Changes in League, 1v1 champs are going to Thrive, while Roam champs are going to die out (Or be very very weak), if you compare Talon to Sol, Talon is better in all Aspects, He can Roam faster, Clear faster (not early though), do more damage (Unless you're building full burst Sol like I do), Sol is weak compared to other champs.

unlike talon, Asol is actually useful once the first tower goes down and people start grouping.

KaìjuNov 16, 20182 votes

Rework him like Riot wanted to. And this comes from a Sol player.

ProfirixNov 16, 20181 votes

His greatest issue isn't his power level, it is his accessibility to more players. His playstyle is just so niche that most new players that come to the champion will play him once, realize they don't like the way his kit works, and just leave him alone. Pretty much every Sol player at higher ELO left is a one-trick or at least used to be a one-trick. The stars were a really interesting idea but in practice just aren't a very fun gameplay mechanic for most people.

BlaQ GokuNov 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So last patch aurelion got hit with huge base health reduction and they changed a key rune on him, time warp tonic now the MS you get last super short the potion gives less mana and hp back and aurelion has sustain issues early which got much worse now. And on pbe celerity is getting changed which is another r key rune on him. Why punish the champ that gets 1v1 by anyone with any kind of instant mobility which you cant do nothing against. I think the nerfs to him are way to much.

What nerf was there to the MS of time warp tonic?

dujeNov 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Black Son Goku,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=72M0j1IB,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-11-16T17:55:55.132+0000)

What nerf was there to the MS of time warp tonic?

Soo the potion doesnt last longer like it use to, it last half the duration so you only get ms more than half less of what you use to get and doesnt go on elixir.

StephenizgodNov 16, 20181 votes

Why punish the champ that gets 1v1 by anyone with any kind of instant mobility which you cant do nothing against

Because his strength isn't in his 1v1, it is in his ability to roam to any lane quickly with massive CC and damage. That is why he got a nerf, because in higher elo he was dominating. Sol is a hard champion to play, but when you master him you become insanely powerful. It is unfortunate that he becomes even worse in lower elos because you hardly see him anymore, but its for the greater cause.

dujeNov 16, 20181 votes

Not 3 hard nurfs deserving, some nurfs, yes.

StephenizgodNov 17, 20181 votes

Debatable, I mean Ryze and Sejuani have been nerfed repeatedly and they were never out of line in majority of ELO's. But it was because they were excelling in higher elos on people who played them a lot.

We will see on A Sol though, to be honest I think he is a unique champion and deserves to be playable.

dujeNov 16, 20181 votes

But they wont nurf irelia to the ground or kaisaa nooooo, irelia diamond + stats are 57% ban rate 24%popularity 50% win rate, easy as shit to play and abuse in every elo. One trick or irelia main stats (2 cups eune chall player 82%wr) (wd4y kr chall 75%wr 300 plus games). And you give me shit for complaining about a champ whos popularity in diamond+ is 1.1% 0.5%ban rate 47% win rate mained by 0.2%. One trick/main stats (piggity kitten na chall 68 wr 130 games) (B god eune diamond 71wr 160 games) (some korean name kr chall 74wr 50 games) (STATS FROM LOLGRAPSH) So don't give me the shit oh its balanced arouns high elo play aurelion is busted he plays like bla bla. Sure nurf him. Not put him in the grave. Nurf ire and kaisa and alike.

ShablagooNov 16, 20181 votes

But he is still good, http://na.op.gg/champion/statistics, So i dont see your point are you saying that if they dominated on the best players they cant be overpowered?

dujeNov 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But he is still good, http://na.op.gg/champion/statistics, So i dont see your point are you saying that if they dominated on the best players they cant be overpowered?

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/aurelionsol/diamond

ShablagooNov 17, 20181 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/diamond/plus/champion/AurelionSol/Middle/

Just another source