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Why did you get rid of Ahri's damage amplification on charm (E)?

patmax17··4 votes·4,579 views
1/16 PBE Update

Yesterday some compensation buffs for Ahri hit PBE. With the removal of deathfire grasp, Riot said they wanted buff some champs that use the item in their core build, and these are the changes for the fox lady:

Orb of Deception (Q) has a new effect: "Ahri gains movement speed while her orb travelling" Foxfire (W) damage increased to 50/80/110/140/170 from 40/65/90/115/140 Charm (E) AP ratio increased to .5 from .35 Charm (E) no longer amplifies damage on target by 20% for 6 seconds. Charm (E) damage increased to 60/90/120/150/200 from 60/90/120/150/180

About one year ago, you nerfed Ahri's damage and changed her E to have a DFG-like effect. Before the rework, since W and R are auto-targeted spells, with DFG (targeted active) you could basically miss Q and E and still kill a squishy enemy. With these changes, Ahri became more skillshot-reliant, depending on her E for single-target burst.

Now her damage amp was removed, and W damage increased. Won't this make Ahri a "brainless" champ again? Her E is now just a CC, while dealing a bit more damage it's not necessary anymore for her combo. W deals increased damage, and it's the ability many people define "brainless", as it requires close to no skill or decision-making to be used.

So Riot, why are you removing the damage amp from Ahri's E? Do you want to pull her away from her role as assassin, more into a mage damage pattern? If so, why? Isn't he a healthy assassin?

Thanks, and sorry for my bad english :)

9 Comments

Qantès3 votes

Why would she be more "brainless"?

With this change you can now use the Charm in more creative ways without being punished with a -20% dps and her Q now will give you a speed boost, so more kiting and juking potential.

I want to make you remember that she was supposed to be a Kite Mage in a first place, but they got forced to balance Ahri around her Assassin playstyle because of the DFG at the end of Season 3.

Edit: Also this fits with her theme as a seductress. You want her, but you can't get her.

patmax171 votes

I always thought Ahri was supposed to be a mage/assassin hybrid (and the only one in league, IIRC). I said she could become "brainless" because before the nerf she had to land E+DFG, then R in and W-R-R to deal some good automatic damage. Now, having W damage buffed, she can just R in and W-R-R as before. I would have preferd if she had kept her lower damage on E and the damage amp on E, meaning she still had to land E to deal significant damage. Also, I think Q is a better spell to have the damage buffed instead of W, being more skill-based.

But I'm not an Ahri expert, as I wrote I'm not here to contest the choice, I just want to know a bit more about the reasons Riot took this decision ^^

aperson12 votes

Without DFG it'll be really hard to one-shot a squishy off of charm, at least not without a boatload of AP items. This means her primary pattern in teamfights is no longer fishing for a charm to start a 4v5, it's to lay down some real AoE hurt on the enemy team when the fight breaks out, using your charm opportunistically.

Also keep in mind Ahri's Q is already a fairly massive portion of her damage. True damage hits hard.

patmax171 votes

Ok, that makes sense: if she can't nuke single target anymore, she'll need to rely on a different damage pattern (meaning aoe dps supported by high mobility). But was her damage patter as assassin unhealthy? Or just unintended?

aperson12 votes

It's hard to remember, as Ahri was released around when I started playing.

On one hand, the main focus of her champ reveal seems to be that she was a mobile mage who "darts around teamfights, picking off wounded stragglers and harrying soft enemies." That sounds pretty assassin-y.

On the other hand, I definitely remember people using her ult and charm more to kite back from dive-happy Jaxes and Xin Zhaos than jumping in to assassinate squishies. Those guys built stuff like WotA and Rylai's, not DFG.

At any rate, if there were two different builds for Ahri, it's clear that the assassin build beat the mage build in the end.

As for healthiness, it was unhealthy in the sense that getting blown up by a champ who could miss all her skillshots and still kill you with her targeted abilities (thanks to DFG's damage amp) was not fun.

Plus, in my opinion, loading all her damage into landing her charm just made her boring. What's the point in having 3 other abilities with their own CDs if they're only useful once you've hit your E?

Sire Hippington2 votes

cause without dfg, which gets removed, she will still need more than ult+W to kill people, and while E is 'only a cc', it is one of the strongest ccs in the entire game. 2sec, not only stunned but also forced to walk towards your enemys, it's more or less even with morgs 3sec snare... and haveing a cced target for a save landing Q, which is you main damage, doesn't hurt anyway.

Alos, as mainy have said, she originally was released as a kite mage, creating picks for the team with her charm while constanly deal considerable amounts of damage in a clash, stying somewhat save with all the mobillity from ult. then people desided to abuse dfg on her, makeing her an assasin. With her original values, dfg+R+W was enugh to kill a squishy, from ~900range without a chance to miss. They nerfed w+r and gave E the amp so if she'S used as a assasin, she atleast hass some counterplay by needing to hit q+e. now without dfg, they can return her to an kite-mage, as she can no longer abuse dfg once her kit is strong as a mage, assasinating people from far away while still having enough mobillity to escape(a ranged champ with 3 flashes can hardly funktion as a healthy assasin, and mobile singletarget nuke niche is already taken by LB anyway)

patmax171 votes

What I don't understand is, why change her functionality as assassin? Now she does more damage with W and has movement speed on Q, meaning she can deal good damage with both spells without needing to land E. Wouldn't it be better if W still dealt less damage and relied on E dmg amp to be effective? I mean, Ahri can still do significant single-target damage even without the need to land E now (Q being more easy to land and W dealing more damage). To me this means her single-target damage is easier to land, they removed required skill from assassin-ahri.

Am I missing something?

Sire Hippington2 votes

cause the total singletarget damage is lower now, the increased damage on W and E just hardly makes up for the lost 20% amp from E, actually still a net loss in the late, and dfg removed on top. While your not forced to land your E on a target, you will hardly assasinate anyone without landing the full combo as you need every bit of damage you kit can offer. also, shifting back damage from W into the E would reduce her capabillitys as kiteing mage, as she rarly would focuse one target all the time and relys on the constant damage from Q+W that spreads out over the entire enemy team(W deals more total damage if not all missles hit the same target)

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