Why people are even picking Nasus jungle now?

Zeppelins circus·Jan 18, 2019·9 votes·8,575 views

I had a couple of games with Nasus jungle on my side, and they cannot even gank. Turns out its been "buffed" to get more stacks on jungle monsters.

...while the reality is this. 45% winrate with 30% pickrate out of nasus players. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Nasus/

Why would you even pick a jungler who is weak to counter jungling, cannot gank, only strong in a specific powerspike blows my mind. If you wanna do that pick udyr or shyvana.

35 Comments

PhearBunnyJan 18, 201910 votes

Yeah man, he cant gank with that 6second long exhaust. You cereal? And he doesn't even need to gank anyways. Just farm and press Q. After 10mins, just roam into enemy jungle and do whatever the hell you want.

Zeppelins circusJan 18, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Yeah man, he cant gank with that 6second long exhaust. You cereal? And he doesn't even need to gank anyways. Just farm and press Q. After 10mins, just roam into enemy jungle and do whatever the hell you want.

And after 10 mins all the lanes are obliterated. I can see that happening from a mile away. 10 min is HALF your average gametime. I bet NOTHING will happen lmao

FSRERJan 19, 20193 votes

After 10 mins all the lanes are obliterated? gotta be joking. If all lanes cant 1v1 or 2v2 at 10 mins jungler cant do anything anyways.

HügöJan 19, 20192 votes

But that's the spirit of laners "muh jungler help meh, jungle difference gg"

ValyrianBladeJan 18, 20198 votes

Either lanes have grown too dependent on early ganking junglers, or early gank junglers have historically made too large an impact.

Either way, a jungler can only gank 1 Lane at a time. There are 3 lanes. I would say in about 30-40% of my games my allied jungler never ganks for me all game. How is that any different than having a Nasus jungler?

With nasus if the rest of the map loses I at least have a guaranteed raid boss coming out at 15-20min to deal with them.

With an early ganker, I have to hope the jungler either stops the bleeding or gets someone else equally fed.

At the end of the day, it's a mix of fault. A Lane should not be dying 1v1 without any jungle intervention outside of expectation. Expectations being that if you're constantly pushed under tower in a melee v range or other counter matchup, then you should get jungle intervention regardless of how bad your jungler is at ganking. Gank 1 get Flash gank 2 get kill - they're over extended. Simultaneously though, a Lane feeding due to being hard camped by a good ganking jungler and then Dove repeatedly is on the jungler and other lanes. You need to recognize where the pressure is going an do something about it. Making one or two mistakes for 0/1 or 0/2 due to ganks isn't unreasonable, and getting tower-dived repeatedly after that is also not unreasonable. If the rest of the map isn't winning despite all that pressure on one lane, its their fault not that lane's.

Zeppelins circusJan 18, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Either lanes have grown too dependent on early ganking junglers, or early gank junglers have historically made too large an impact.

Either way, a jungler can only gank 1 Lane at a time. There are 3 lanes. I would say in about 30-40% of my games my allied jungler never ganks for me all game. How is that any different than having a Nasus jungler?

With nasus if the rest of the map loses I at least have a guaranteed raid boss coming out at 15-20min to deal with them.

With an early ganker, I have to hope the jungler either stops the bleeding or gets someone else equally fed.

At the end of the day, it's a mix of fault. A Lane should not be dying 1v1 without any jungle intervention outside of expectation. Expectations being that if you're constantly pushed under tower in a melee v range or other counter matchup, then you should get jungle intervention regardless of how bad your jungler is at ganking. Gank 1 get Flash gank 2 get kill - they're over extended. Simultaneously though, a Lane feeding due to being hard camped by a good ganking jungler and then Dove repeatedly is on the jungler and other lanes. You need to recognize where the pressure is going an do something about it. Making one or two mistakes for 0/1 or 0/2 due to ganks isn't unreasonable, and getting tower-dived repeatedly after that is also not unreasonable. If the rest of the map isn't winning despite all that pressure on one lane, its their fault not that lane's.

Well from my point of perspective as a mid main, second jung player. I make sure my opposed laner looks well..."tasty" for the jungler. I rarely "ask" my jungler to gank. He just comes to my restaurant. But lets say, if our customer doesn't know whats best on the menu (or in this case, doesn't even have hands to eat ). Thats quite the problem.

Also I find it quite contradictory, that while a lot of people who defend this playstyle says "cooperate with Nasus", while the person who picked Nasus is adamantly clear he won't from his side by his pick. Since I strongly believe jung/mid is a sort of duo lane (as not as intensive as sup/adc), this is the equivalent of a support standing back the adc doing jack.

Any jungler can "farm". Thats a fact and not a strength to be boasted of. And other junglers can scale higher, stronger than jungle nasus. Just HOW long is he going to get to build at triforce.

ValyrianBladeJan 19, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=60lKbhGP,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-01-18T21:20:49.186+0000)

Well from my point of perspective as a mid main, second jung player. I make sure my opposed laner looks well..."tasty" for the jungler. I rarely "ask" my jungler to gank. He just comes to my restaurant. But lets say, if our customer doesn't know whats best on the menu (or in this case, doesn't even have hands to eat ). Thats quite the problem.

Also I find it quite contradictory, that while a lot of people who defend this playstyle says "cooperate with Nasus", while the person who picked Nasus is adamantly clear he won't from his side by his pick. Since I strongly believe jung/mid is a sort of duo lane (as not as intensive as sup/adc), this is the equivalent of a support standing back the adc doing jack.

Any jungler can "farm". Thats a fact and not a strength to be boasted of. And other junglers can scale higher, stronger than jungle nasus. Just HOW long is he going to get to build at triforce.

I mean, I strongly disagree with you.

You don't make your lane opponent look tasty. You generally lose early trades and give your opponent lane priority. If you're in low enough elo that your opponent with lane priority consistently chooses to try to use it to pressure you under tower without vision/support and make himself vulnerable to ganks that's on him being bad, not you being good. By giving up lane priority you gain one advantage and one advantage only - proximity to your tower. You give up:

the win in the 2v2 (if your jungler ganks and gets counter ganked, you give up 2 kills and a boat load of tower damage)
the win in the 1v1 (if your jungler isn't nearby to punish aggression, your lane opponent beats you 1v1)
the first reaction to nearby jungler vs jungler encounters (if the junglers contest scuttle, your lane opponent is getting there first AND with more experience from having killed the wave already [possibly a level up on you])
the option to roam and help top/bot (you'll lose the 1v1 following if he turns, you can't go first without losing tower)

Which I understand will now make you say: "But that's how you're saying to play with a Nasus!"

Which first: if that's how you play anyways, then why does it affect you that you have a Nasus jungler! Your playstyle matches his. Sorry you don't get fed by your jungler camping your lane.

And second: look at those items above again? Recognize something? You comment that mid and jungle are similar to a bot lane duo. Your expression of that relationship clearly shows that you think the jungle is the support and you're the carry. I mean, look at the facts - you think he needs to support your lane but you don't need to support his encounters in the jungle.

And finally: Nasus doesn't make it clear that he won't support you in lane. Nasus CAN gank. He's got an extremely powerful slow on his W. He can counter gank. He can take huge chunks of the enemy tower if you force them out of lane.

Nasus jungle is extremely popular as you showed in OP. That means there are a lot of people playing him because they think it's strong. THOSE people are playing him wrong - they're just farming blindly thinking it equals a win. Someone playing Nasus jungle properly will STILL give some ganks when your lane opponent over-extends. He may need you to provide some of the engage (e.g. hit a cc on them) and then he can get in range to wither. If you're playing someone without CC, he can go to another lane that has it.

I get the feeling that you play damage-heavy cc-light mid laners. They won't go overly well with Nasus because he would prefer you hit CC then he comes in to wither, meanwhile you prefer to have a jungler hit more reliable CC then you follow with your hard-to-land cc and damage combo (or just a full high damage combo). It's not on the Nasus that your lane and his don't go well together for ganks though. Nasus is GREAT at ganking top lane bruisers/tanks for example, since they have lots of CC to let him get in range, then his wither not only slows the escape but also slows AS to prevent the lane opponent from turning and taking a kill back.

NoPaxtJan 18, 20195 votes

he can't gank? 2 points in his slow and he can't not gank...

Zeppelins circusJan 18, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stark of Wrath,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=60lKbhGP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-18T20:28:29.022+0000)

he can't gank? 2 points in his slow and he can't not gank...

He has no movementspeed steroid or anything aside from that. If that is the case, kog maw will make a very good jungler.

NoPaxtJan 18, 20193 votes

He doesn't need +movement speed when he has such a strong slow...

Psychø ßetaJan 19, 20192 votes

Did you forget that runes exist? He has a movementspeed steroid.

KadexeJan 19, 20192 votes

Kog'Maw's CC is nowhere near as good as Wither.

Zeppelins circusJan 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Kog'Maw's CC is nowhere near as good as Wither.

It is if you do not have points in it.

Th3KindredSpiritJan 19, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=60lKbhGP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-18T20:44:25.249+0000)

He has no movementspeed steroid or anything aside from that. If that is the case, kog maw will make a very good jungler.

He can take ghost or approach velocity for steroid ms . . . And if your argument is he doesn't have ms steroids than wtf, that means most of the other jg's be must be shit because they don't all have fucking ms steroids . . .

And literally what PhearBunny said:

Yeah man, he cant gank with that 6second long exhaust. You cereal? And he doesn't even need to gank anyways. Just farm and press Q. After 10mins, just roam into enemy jungle and do whatever the hell you want.

DuskDaUmbreonJan 19, 20194 votes

There's more to ganking than merely having CC.

AlienPrimateJan 18, 20194 votes

Adapt your own play as a laner if you have a Nasus jungle. Make it so he doesn't have to gank by just sitting back and letting him get to late game by not feeding your opponent. One full jungle clear for Nasus is 72 stacks just for the large monsters.

Zeppelins circusJan 18, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Adapt your own play as a laner if you have a Nasus jungle. Make it so he doesn't have to gank by just sitting back and letting him get to late game by not feeding your opponent. One full jungle clear for Nasus is 72 stacks just for the large monsters.

Why do I have to lower my standards for another (44%) rather than making it higher? Thats like saying "adapt" to a jungler who has a inting yasuo in midlane. That is not a solution, but a casuality or defect at this point.

A Bad NasusJan 19, 20193 votes

He has one of the best spikes in the game when played jungle as early as 9 min instead of 18. As a jungler he has many more options at his disposal to influence the map and force fights. Very few junglers are able to duel him once he hits 6 with sheen. It just so happens most people suck with him because they don't actually play Nasus or understand the optimal jungle routes/stacking tempo including scuttles and in situations where he is getting counter jungled. If you have a Nasus jungle on your team expect them to play similiar to Yi, Udyr, and Shyvana with a focus on objectives and macro.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=everlasting+tilt

DuskDaUmbreonJan 19, 20193 votes

I have no idea. It has few upsides and too many downsides.

Literally anyone with a brain cell that's playing a real jungler can just invade him and kick his ass. He's not going to be able to fight back, and he has basically nothing to save him from said invade.

Zeppelins circusJan 19, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I have no idea. It has few upsides and too many downsides.

Literally anyone with a brain cell that's playing a real jungler can just invade him and kick his ass. He's not going to be able to fight back, and he has basically nothing to save him from said invade.

I agree. One of the big reasons Nasus is played mostly on top is because he has a tower to shield him. Nasus jungle is similar to saying playing Nasus without a tower.

And when he is invaded, all his allies are to help him out sacrificing cs and exp early on, then get rekt in lane without expecting ganks? Sounds bullocks to me.

GFREEMENJan 18, 20192 votes

AFK Farm until 30m

ODiiiiiNJan 18, 20192 votes

Dude... I hate when people go by win rates.. you're acting like everyone who plays a champ or specific role, are going to be equally skilled. I guarantee good Nasus players destroooy in JG. With that fucking slow he got? shit... and then you got all these noobs that see a good player and try to do what he did and fail bringing that champ/role win rate down.

So stop going by win rates. Its like saying Akali is a weak champ cause she got 46.6% win rate at leaugeofgraphs... like psfttt w.e dude that bitch is OP.

Psychø ßetaJan 19, 20192 votes

People just don't know what runes to take and how to play him. I would say Nasus jungle is actually really fucking strong. You just need to make him a better ganker with runes. People are bad at the game, so he has 45% win rate. He should be at least 52%. He is that good and consistent. Riot needs to revert that change or rework him. I mean, if they don't i will gladly abuse the shit out of him.

Daddy AntsJan 19, 20192 votes

Because he can get 130+ stacks from 1 full clear of a Jungle if he gets at least 1 scuttle crab.

DuskDaUmbreonJan 19, 20192 votes

Sure. If you want to get executed by every camp along the way if you try to do that first clear.

Daddy AntsJan 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Sure. If you want to get executed by every camp along the way if you try to do that first clear.

Forgetting he has passive lifesteal?

DuskDaUmbreonJan 19, 20191 votes

He has passive lifesteal, yes.

But lifesteal requires dealing damage, which Nasus does not have much of early on. And if you're stacking every monster, you're not using Q's bonus damage to sustain and kill monsters faster, otherwise it'd be on cooldown preventing you from stacking with it - meaning you take much more damage.

This isn't so much a problem for gromp or either buff, and isn't really too big for wolves. But then you look at raptors - The camp with the second-highest number of stacks for you (second to Krugs), and...yeah.

Keep in mind you'd only be able to kill one raptor every 6-8 seconds in your first clear if you wanted max stacks.

You don't clear fast enough, your lifesteal really isn't enough, you lack the CDR needed... There's just a lot of issues with it.

MorticianjohnJan 19, 20192 votes

Show me gold and silver win rates. Show me nasus mains win rates. I mean 45% is low but if they can expect 52 to 55% after 25 to 30 games that isn't too bad.

KadexeJan 19, 20192 votes

I have to agree. Something like Master Yi will clear his jungle faster, scale up faster, and generally have more map presence while arguably scaling harder than Nasus.

ExxonVJan 19, 20192 votes

Losing to it is really easy and depressing though, if the enemy goes nasus jg and you have no lane pressure you just lose. Without lane pressure its weak, but if you cant counter jg him because you never have priority in lanes then he comes out of jg at level 6 already hitting for 70% of ur health per Q with an inescapable slow.

hazerddexJan 18, 20191 votes

Nasus gets bonus q farm from jungle creeps and can basically come out a god when hes done.

SanKakUJan 19, 20191 votes

I liked Nasus jungle before the buff. Haven't tried it since, but probably should. But meh...I don't like playing jungle anymore. The support usually trolls and makes it too hard for me, so I'd rather play support or even bottom so I can then help my jungler instead of being the jungler that needs help and doesn't get it except in rare circumstances which generally isn't enough. A champion pick isn't going to solve the problems that jungler has to deal with IME.

And that's pretty sad TBH. I think next year or partway through this year...whenever they get the chance, they should rework the jungle again. It's obnoxiously not fun and so many support players don't understand what it's like to be a jungler. If it were fun for many more players, then perhaps players would learn how to play that slot and it wouldn't be such a bad experience overall like it is right now.

I hate to say it, but they really need to pump in some more power(probably a bad idea) or at least more flexibility for the jungle items. Why can't we have bonus armor or even bonus magic resist on our jungle item instead of bonus AD/HP/AS/AP? Why can't we have our wards back? Why can't we get a healing smite so we can heal a Kalista for example to make sure she gets her rend 'smite' off on an epic monster as an example. Or heal the top lane champ that selflessly teleports to create space for the team so they can finish the objective. I can imagine using healing Smite as someone like Leona to encourage allies to hang around and trigger my passive. Or Karma jungle might make a return or maybe Morgana jungle could see some relevance...who really knows. I just wish Riot would do something to both make Enchanters feel fun while still remaining fair and the same for junglers and it would make sense to me if they let Enchanters reliably jungle. Jungle Kayle has always been viable, but as a champion she's suffered ever since the rune rework due to the nature of her ultimate. Imagine a healing smite as her...would have another tool to prevent having to burn the ultimate early.

BestPudgeNAJan 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=60lKbhGP,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-18T20:23:06.152+0000)

a jungler who is weak to counter jungling,........ udyr

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

hewhodoesnotcareJan 19, 20191 votes

people complain about junglers ganking too early. people complain about junglers not ganking enough. people complaining about how the other jungler is more success then your jungler but ur the 1 with no cc. people complaining about junglers no matter what.

hhaavviikkJan 19, 20191 votes

in nexus blitz jungle nasus works great, 10 minutes in he can have about 450 stacks on his Q, that is assuming your fellow jungler is aware that nasus has a stacking mechanic, tried to play nasus jungle and other person kept trying to go for the kill ignoring my Q stacking