Vlad Q is not fun to play against right now

kynysallop·Sep 8, 2015·10 votes·1,808 views

Could we perhaps have Vlad's Q become a tether that only heals if it's completed? Vladimir, power wise, seems to be in an ok spot... But laning against him when you need to shut him down early is not fun when he has instant sustain that is not dodgeable in his Q. Making it a skillshot doesn't make much sense thematically, but something should be done about it. I may just be missing some counterplay, but vlad is one of the few champions that laning against just is not fun.

52 Comments

FadedpfSep 8, 201516 votes

When was it ever fun to play against

kynysallopSep 8, 20151 votes

Lol True

Gladiore67Sep 8, 20153 votes

As a vlad main I do have to say that what you said is untrue While the damage may be instant the healing has a 1-2 second travel time...I have died so many times as vlad because i thought i could live cause i q but the heal doesn't instantly heal me.. Spellvamp instantly heals but his q passive portion of it automatically does it the thing about vlad is you Cannot let him poke you down...If your letting him get free q's off on you and then complaining your dieing to his infinite sustain while he does damage to you all in him at level 3...Or pick riven Someone with cc if you cc a vlad he is basically dead.

kynysallopSep 8, 20152 votes

As someone else already said, Counterpicking isnt counterplay. I can win lane as hard as I want, but as soon as vlad gets 3 points in Q trading with him becomes impossible.

Gladiore67Sep 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

As someone else already said, Counterpicking isnt counterplay. I can win lane as hard as I want, but as soon as vlad gets 3 points in Q trading with him becomes impossible.

And? Tell me why this is valid. Alot of champions can become behind and kill you...a malzahar can be 0 and 8 and all he has to do is e q w r ignite and if he has his voidling up thats more then enough to kill someone whos 8 0...Why aern't you calling for a nerf on him? Every champion has something they are good at and something that makes them weak....Vladimirs early game is weak. Nasus has a weak early game and his q late game heals him for more then vlads why not nerf him too?

SaltyKrackaSep 8, 20151 votes

Because

A: Nasus is a Melee champ who has to fight at Melee range.

B: Nasus actually has resource costs.

C: Nasus has a weaker early game than Vlad.

Gladiore67Sep 8, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Because

A: Nasus is a Melee champ who has to fight at Melee range.

B: Nasus actually has resource costs.

C: Nasus has a weaker early game than Vlad.

I disagree a nasus can 1v1 a vlad earlygame no problem....Nasuses mid game is scary too...Also the thing about vladimir is...He is a slow champion with one slow and no mobility spells...Has low base movement speed...All you have to do if he trys to go in for a trade is back off....

SaltyKrackaSep 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I disagree a nasus can 1v1 a vlad earlygame no problem.

I'm just sitting here puzzled, wondering how you expect people to believe such blatant lies.

ninjaIRL Sep 8, 20151 votes

That's the thing though, Vladimir doesn't need to proactively start trades because:

He has strong sustain.
He can farm REALLY easily.
He's still useful outside of lane phase; off-tanking and
He has an in built AoE DFG (ultimate) if he really wants to kill you or your whole team. (12% increase damage against infected targets, from all sources.)
He has no problem repeatedly spamming his Q. It has absolutely 0 cost.
If he gets ganked he has his W, and if needed a flash, to ensure a 90% chance of escape. (Also Zhonya's)

kynysallopSep 8, 20152 votes

To the Nasus point: His Q is melee range, not instant, and definitely does not heal him for more than vlad Q. To the malzahar: He'll still only be 1-8 and you can zone him because you know his ult is down, so you'll make up for the gold you lose by somehow dying.

Gladiore67Sep 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

To the Nasus point: His Q is melee range, not instant, and definitely does not heal him for more than vlad Q. To the malzahar: He'll still only be 1-8 and you can zone him because you know his ult is down, so you'll make up for the gold you lose by somehow dying.

Nasus also has a 90% slow or so that lasts around 5 seconds and can ALMOST continusouly reapply it.

kynysallopSep 8, 20152 votes

at max rank it lasts 5 seconds and has a 11 second cooldown, plus is only 35% at the beginning

TwinkieProSep 8, 20151 votes

40% CD makes it just over 6 seconds, almost allowing a continuous 90% slow with 1 second intervals of speed.

ReshiKillimSep 8, 20152 votes

It doesn't need to be changed that much, I can introduce you to someone who makes people regret playing Vlad..

Dun dun duuuuuuunnn!

I would like to introduce you to Swain!

Swain This guy makes lane hell for Vlad players. He's Vlad's equivalent of a Yorick for other toplaners.

DurzakaSep 8, 20155 votes

Counter picking =/= counter play.

Nor does it address how frustrating it is to play against vlad.

stealthfox94Sep 8, 20151 votes

Swain vs Vladimir is an overrated counter.

Mr Broken WingsSep 8, 20152 votes

Dont delete point and click spells when mobility creep is strong, please. And every champion is frustrating to play against, its bullshit to bring that argument. When I learned 1 thing about this board then its that EVERYTHING is cancer and frustrating and should be gutted. He is weak till level 9, completly deny him till then and enjoy a freewin like 90% of the people who dont qq about him.

kynysallopSep 8, 20152 votes

Im not sure the fact that it's point and click is what makes it oppressive in lane. It more comes down to it being resourcless and instant. You can't truly shut him down at any point in solo queue

Mr Broken WingsSep 8, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Im not sure the fact that it's point and click is what makes it oppressive in lane. It more comes down to it being resourcless and instant. You can't truly shut him down at any point in solo queue

Thats a lie, he is nonexistant in lane pre 9 if you are ANY decent. Thats just a fact, I personally roflstomp over vladimirs all the time. Its not true that he is completly invincible and not shutdownable, he shutdowns himself for half of the game with his shitty earlygame and after that he still isnt overbearing in 1 v 1 all ins, he is more a champion for long trades, avoid these and he is still completly fine, you just need to have some brain. You dont play the poke game with him, and because of his mediocre range and his lack of mobility thats easy to do and then you win. His design isnt the best, but compared to the newer champions I would like to face vladimir every day.

kynysallopSep 8, 20151 votes

Him being nonexistent in lane pre 9 is actually problem. If worst comes to worse for him, he can sit and farm under tower. If you try to dive him, he can just W. Yes, that costs health, but oh wait, instant Q for health if he has hextech revolver.

Gladiore67Sep 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Him being nonexistent in lane pre 9 is actually problem. If worst comes to worse for him, he can sit and farm under tower. If you try to dive him, he can just W. Yes, that costs health, but oh wait, instant Q for health if he has hextech revolver.

Then dive him before he has hextech. Vlad is a very weak champion before he has hextech if you let him push lane then go in at 3 you will kill him half the game if you play it right.

kynysallopSep 8, 20151 votes

And what if vlad doesn't push lane?

Gladiore67Sep 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And what if vlad doesn't push lane?

He will have to push lane at level 1....Even if you lose 3-9 farm before level 3 once you hit level 3 and your pushed just go in....He'll most likely go for the poke and thats your prime time...Remember that vlad has no escape but a pool thats on a 20 second cooldown with low base MS

Mr Broken WingsSep 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Him being nonexistent in lane pre 9 is actually problem. If worst comes to worse for him, he can sit and farm under tower. If you try to dive him, he can just W. Yes, that costs health, but oh wait, instant Q for health if he has hextech revolver.

its NOT a bad thing if he cant lane and apply any pressure till midgame, thats GOOD for the enemy laner.
Dont push him in like a hyper bronze guy, wavemanagement, basics of the game.

Not that hard.

kynysallopSep 8, 20151 votes

What i Meant by him being nonexistent in lane is that he doesn't have to fight you, not that he can't apply pressure. he can turn it into a farm lane, which makes the idea of shutting him down pre 9 fairly hard. At best, if i don't push lane, it will continue to be even, and he'll try and trade with his Q over and over

Mr Broken WingsSep 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What i Meant by him being nonexistent in lane is that he doesn't have to fight you, not that he can't apply pressure. he can turn it into a farm lane, which makes the idea of shutting him down pre 9 fairly hard. At best, if i don't push lane, it will continue to be even, and he'll try and trade with his Q over and over

His range is mediocre, and he has no escape spell. If you have problems with engaging on vladimir and forcing fights then probably every lane is a farm lane for you. Every time he goes for a lasthit you have an easy opportunity, every time. And if you freeze properly he will be underfarmed or he died 20x before lv 9 without jungle interaction.

kynysallopSep 8, 20151 votes

If i engage on him, he can W and then cast Q to get all the health it cost back with nothing lost besides his w cooldown.

SaltyKrackaSep 8, 20153 votes

Problem is, not every champ is Riven or Fiora.

stealthfox94Sep 8, 20151 votes

" mobility creep is strong "

According to the forums that's always.

Mr Broken WingsSep 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

" mobility creep is strong "

According to the forums that's always.

Mobility is a key aspect in the game, why do you think every rework has at least 1 movementspeedbuff / mobility spell more for the champion? The only one who didnt get a movementspeedbuff was darius and he got overtuned in numbers, he will be shit again after the balance changes that will come.

LadyRenlySep 8, 20151 votes

I really don't see why Vlad's q gets peoples blood raging like someone just fused vayne, fizz and teemo together? It's point and click, but so are auto attacks and several forms of cc

SaltyKrackaSep 8, 20152 votes

It's manaless point and click damage that heals him, and he has a ranged autoattack as well.

kynysallopSep 8, 20151 votes

The main reason its so annoying to play against is when you are against a Vladimir, there's a point where most champions will have a Lot of trouble dueling him. Other champions with rediculous late game have weak early game, but right now he is so safe in lane between his Q and W. His Q has no counterplay, and chunks a quarter of an orianna's health at level 5. Trading with him in lane becomes so difficult and there's nothing that can be done about it. Auto attacks don't do as much damage, or heal unless you have life steal.

OrbvSep 8, 20151 votes

That's not entirely true. His cooldown on Q really isn't that great. Maxed out it is, but he can't spam it enough to balance out how often he can get poked. It's why he's used more top lane than mid. In mid, he can get poked out early, or he can be pushed to his turret and fail at wave clear without slowly killing himself with E.

In top lane you NEED to dive him to kill him, and you NEED to have a fallback after he uses W to escape your dive.

DurzakaSep 8, 20157 votes

It is manaless. It heals him. It doesnt draw minion aggro (big one) And its cooldown is very short.

Combined all together makes it very frustrating to play against.

You basically have a window of 8 levels to stop vlad, and then thats it, because he is going to make your life a living hell.

Phoenix Kotori Sep 8, 20152 votes

Riot admitted Vlad was one of the worst design mistake they made and should have never been released.

The Bíg TicketSep 8, 20151 votes

Cooldown is 10 seconds at level 1, it just decreases down to 4 at rank 9, but in the early levels you can definitely abuse that long cooldown and straight up all in whenever he used it.

DurzakaSep 8, 20152 votes

By lvl 3 its cooldown is only 7 seconds. That puts it on pair with other trading tools like that, except his is costless, and heals him, and is point and click.

LadyRenlySep 15, 20151 votes

I thought any form of damage would draw aggro? How would his spell in particular not draw any?

DurzakaSep 15, 20151 votes

Wrong.

Abilities do not draw aggro.

FowusSep 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I really don't see why Vlad's q gets peoples blood raging like someone just fused vayne, fizz and teemo together? It's point and click, but so are auto attacks and several forms of cc

It's ridiculous if he has a hextech revolver

AbyssphereSep 8, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I really don't see why Vlad's q gets peoples blood raging like someone just fused vayne, fizz and teemo together? It's point and click, but so are auto attacks and several forms of cc

I think it's just the fact that there's no downside to it that annoys people? I don't mind fighting Vladimir in say, a team fight, because his Q is fair enough there, but laning against him using it off cooldown to make your poke pointless (unless you can trade very heavily with him and zone him off minions) can surely be frustrating.

It's one of the only abilities in the game where there's no reason not to use it whenever it's up. Which seems very poorly designed.

Faded LichSep 8, 20151 votes

If you're letting him get to the point it's a pain in the ass, it means you've let him get all the way to level 8 or 9 without killing him, ganking him or zoning his ass into oblivion, because before that he is actually rather weak and if that is the case, you deserve to lose the lane. If you're taking a champion that can't kill him before that point into the lane against him, again you deserve to lose the lane. he takes awhile to come online, so abuse it. It's not that hard.

kynysallopSep 8, 20156 votes

But thats the thing.... Its not once he reaches 8 or 9 that its annoying, it's once he gets level 3 in his Q that it's on such a low cooldown that instant, resourceless, unavoidable damage + a heal becomes too much for most laners to deal with

Faded LichSep 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But thats the thing.... Its not once he reaches 8 or 9 that its annoying, it's once he gets level 3 in his Q that it's on such a low cooldown that instant, resourceless, unavoidable damage + a heal becomes too much for most laners to deal with

See this just shows you don't know what you're talking about. It's not on a low CD before it's maxed, it's actually rather high at first and the health cost to health regen ratio of using his E to make the heal useful and the Q itself actually hurts him more than it helps him in the early levels.

Sorry but you and everyone bandwagoning on this don't know a damn thing about Vlad...also why I am glad these boards don't control balance lol.

kynysallopSep 8, 20153 votes

Yes, 10 seconds is high at level 1. 7 seconds at rank 3 for an UNavoidable 160 damage Plus 60% of his AP, with a guaranteed 35+25% of AP+spell vamp heal is rediculous at level 5, considering it doesn't cost a thing. Consider the tether idea, where Vlad only gets the heal if the tether is held for, lets say 2 seconds. Riot could even buff the heal if every other champions high mobility was destroying him. There's actual counterplay there, instead of just hoping you can deal enough damage to make the trade worth it

ninjaIRL Sep 8, 20152 votes

I personally believe it's not easy to gank and kill Vladimirs especially when they know what they're doing; not spamming E near minions so that the lane is not shoved and resultantly harder for the enemy jungler to gank the opposing Vladimir.

His Q, once it has been ranked up to 3, is on a low enough cooldown that you can alternately cs with it, and his autoattacks, especially against passive laners, quite easily.

Lastly, I believe his overall kit has been noted to be undesirable (i.e. badly designed) not just by players but by Riot's champion designers themselves. He is planned to have a rework some time in the next two years; not because he's overtly OP, like pre-rework Sion or pre-reworked Master Yi, (though he can be once he's fed like every other champion) but because his kit is arguably the easiest to use out of all casters in the game as well as having very little counterplay. This results in a shitty and boring kit with the only fun part of his gameplay being watching the enemy team scatter like rats at the mere hint of him, and maybe his Sanguine Pool but then that gets boring after a number of games on him.

EDIT: Feedback given by the boards helps Riot discern the current concerns of players and (though seemingly very lightly according to many) use this feedback to balance the game. The boards are helpful in suading the balance teams.

Leonhart77Sep 8, 20151 votes

Its not fun but as someone who plays vlad alot, fighting someone who has a flash and ignite or any champ with a dash and ignite is equally a pain. Make him use his pool early by rushing him, and while its on cooldown if he isnt camping flash, ignite then just beat him to death. He is surprisingly squishy if he just focusing AP at first. His Q isnt effective at first so the payoff of hitting him and him also using his pool benefits you more then him. Also any amount of MR seriously gives him trouble unless he gets void staff.

Chespin2013Sep 8, 20151 votes

Ehh I don't like the idea of a tether maybe just make into a skillshot

ZephyrDrakeSep 8, 20151 votes

you are supposed to take advantage of his weak early game. Having 3 points into Q doesn't make his Q "oppressive" or anything. Yes it doesn't cost anything but his W and E cost health and the range of it it's mediocre at best and the amount Q itself heals him is extremely small at such early stages of the game. Vlad's Q start being useful to him at rank 4 at the bare minimum and then at lvl 9 he has it maxed and that's when he can use it effectively.

Vlad is extremely weak to champions with all-ins and easily abuseable in the early game. He is supposed to be a champion that slowly ramps up as the game advances and it shows. Swain destroys Vlad and so does Olaf among many other champions. Build some MR and all-in him, gank him even if all you get is his pool that is still a long CD and some HP off him which your his lane opponent can take advantage of